ROY according to LGW

[chaps80 1,591]

I do think Panarin's KHL experience should be considered. However, unless the sizeable scoring lead is significantly narrowed, it will be too much to ignore. Let him get the Calder and overpay him to cramp Chicago's cap.

The cap doesn't affect Chicago. They could lose half their team and replace them with no names, and those guys would be stars by the end of the season, and they'd have another cup. Annoying as f***.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I think Panarin deserves a lot of praise for Kane's point totals, too, instead of the idea of him piggybacking off Kane's offensive ability. I mean, Kane hasn't put up these numbers with any other forward he's ever played with. Panarin is a big part of that.

[kickazz 5,459]

I think Panarin deserves a lot of praise for Kane's point totals, too, instead of the idea of him piggybacking off Kane's offensive ability. I mean, Kane hasn't put up these numbers with any other forward he's ever played with. Panarin is a big part of that.

Interesting. That is true. Also I think Kane is basically in his prime now. These might be the years where we will see him play at his highest level. Panarin might be the "right place at the right time" for Kane. As in - Kane is about playing his best hockey and on top of that he has a guy with good chemistry along with him.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Whats funny is, the guy only has 14 more points that Larkin, it's not like he is blowing Larkin out of the water in that catagory. Will he slow down, maybe not, but Larkin could go on a spree like he did to start the year and close that gap a bit...but everyone is talking that Panarin is "so far" ahead of Larkin, when in fact, 14 points is NOT unsurpassable. The fact that he was chosen to go to the All-Star Game speaks volumes of how he is viewed in the NHL, plus the fact that he is a 19 yo pure rookie, leading his team in points and the +/- speaks volumes too. I know the +/- stat is not the best stat, but since Panarin is only a +8 and Kane is +23, shows me that Panarin isn't on the ice in all the important situations as Kane and, in our case, Larkin is.

I am very bias and want him to win, but in reality he does have a strong case for actually winning it....that being said, so did Yzerman over Barrasso, Fedorov over Belfour and Zetterberg over Jackman...

One other thing we may be missing, what is the amount of games needed to be played by a goalie to qualify for having a rookie season, last year Mrazek played in 29 games, started 26. If he didn't qualify as a rookie last season, he could be up for it this season, right now he sits at .932 SV% and 2.03 GAA...3rd and 5th in the NHL repsectively. If not ROY then serious Vezina talk if he continues this pace...

Edited January 24, 2016 by LeftWinger

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Right. They play on teams that happen to have better players and difference makers than they themselves are (O'Rielly for instance). Hence other players got picked for the all star game rather than them (in Buffalo's case Eichel). And removing John Scott from the equation OEL would have gotten picked over Domi, so that point won't work either in case you try it.

Which goes to my original point that Dylan Larkin is Detroit's MVP, got picked for the all star game, and is one of the leading candidates for the Calder. The other leading candidate being Panarin who happens to lead in an important stats. Points.

This isn't a discussion of who wanted to go to an all star or who didn't. The point is out of those 4 rookies, one happens to be the best player on his team while the others are not. Hence the results of the all star selections. The NHL tends to pick the best players from each team. So if they, the NHL, think Larkin is the best then I see some supporting evidence as to why Larkin has a pretty good shot at Calder.

Additionally since the Calder is voted on by the PHWA and since Larkin has trended a crap ton on the media for majority of the year, that's another reason why I think Larkin has a good chance.

All things being equal, either Datsyuk or Zetterberg would be playing. Not Larkin. Datsyuk has made it known in the past that he'd rather not play, and I'm sure Zetterberg said the same this year.

Larkin is a very good rookie. He's still quite a bit behind those two, though. Both are smoother, smarter, and far superior in their own end.

[kickazz 5,459]

All things being equal, either Datsyuk or Zetterberg would be playing. Not Larkin. Datsyuk has made it known in the past that he'd rather not play, and I'm sure Zetterberg said the same this year.

Larkin is a very good rookie. He's still quite a bit behind those two, though. Both are smoother, smarter, and far superior in their own end.

.

Sure, maybe a 2008 version of Z/D would have been picked, but in 2015/16 Larkin is tied for team points and leader in goals. Not to mention pre-all star selection Datsyuk was playing pretty bad, while Zetterberg was going through his usual slump, all the while Larkin was closing the gap in team points.

[Echolalia 2,961]

I think Larkin's speed and youth makes him more qualified to play a 3 on 3 allstar game that goes on for 10 hours, too.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

.

Sure, maybe a 2008 version of Z/D would have been picked, but in 2015/16 Larkin is tied for team points and leader in goals. Not to mention pre-all star selection Datsyuk was playing pretty bad, while Zetterberg was going through his usual slump, all the while Larkin was closing the gap in team points.

That doesn't change anything I said about why both are better than Larkin.

[kickazz 5,459]

That doesn't change anything I said about why both are better than Larkin.

Better historically/inherently maybe but not better for the team currently. Larkin is their best player atm. Similar to how Crosby is better than Malkin yet Malkin has been Pittsburg's best player this season (and as a side note was picked for AS game over Crosby). It's a quite simply analogy really.

Regardless, with the way Larkin's resume for the year is piling up he's making a good run for the Calder. Which is the main point anyway.

Edited January 24, 2016 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Larkin isn't as good defensively, isn't as smart, isn't as polished, isn't as good.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Larkin isn't as good defensively, isn't as smart, isn't as polished, isn't as good.

Yet...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Yet...

We're talking now, not what he could be in a couple years.

[kickazz 5,459]

Larkin isn't as good defensively, isn't as smart, isn't as polished, isn't as good.

I'm not sure what exactly you're arguing. This is a discussion of ROY. Regardless lets take your whole "not better defensively quote". Currently Larkin leads all 4 top rookies (Domi, Panarin, Eichel) in takeaways and has the least amount of giveaways.

Now extending it to our own roster - He has less giveaways per game than Datsyuk AND Zetterberg. Kills penalties (while the other two don't and probably can't at this point in their careers) has a higher takeaway rate than Zetterberg and only below Datsyuk by .05 in terms of takeaways per game.

Has higher rate of defensive zone starts than Datsyuk but less than Zetterberg.

Datsyuk and Z might have been great players at one time but they have significantly declined (although Datsyuk has been really good the last few games). They're still great players but not the elite players they once were. As far as Larkin is concerned, he's obviously not an elite player yet but his impact on the team has been higher than Datsyuk and Zetterbergs. He is their best player on ice in all situations even if his peak potential isn't what Datsyuk or Zetterberg's is (yet). Z and D had an extremely high potential but they can't play at that potential they once did.

Edited January 25, 2016 by kickazz

[FireCaptain 563]

Howard also finished second to Tyler Myers.

I want Larkin to finish second, just like Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom and Zetterberg did. Three HoFers, one likely heading there and one for whom the sky's the limit.

[Smite 399]

One thing that might make a difference in voting is Panarin is 5 years older then Larkin and played in other professional leagues.

I checked he is under the 26 year old age limit to qualify.

[toby91_ca 620]

Panarin is 2 years under the age limit, so it's not close. In terms of age and professional hockey experience, I doubt it would be used against Panarin. If you remember Ovechkin and Crosby's rookie years, Ovechkin won the award even though he was 2 years older and had 4 years of professional hockey experience. They were only separated by 4 points.

14 point differential is actually very significant.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Hopefully Larkin can keep it going and not start getting tired from the longer season....so far so good! If he can rattle off a nice run like he started the year, he could close that gap by time the season ends. Of course we need the rest to slow down at the same time.

No matter what, how lucky are we? This kid could very well be another 20+ year lifer in Detroit. What are the odds that Panarin (sp) plays 20 years in Chicago, if at all? Chicago loves to cycle through players often....maybe he will, but I think given the age of both players, Larkin has the better odds of playing 20 years.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Panarin is 2 years under the age limit, so it's not close. In terms of age and professional hockey experience, I doubt it would be used against Panarin. If you remember Ovechkin and Crosby's rookie years, Ovechkin won the award even though he was 2 years older and had 4 years of professional hockey experience. They were only separated by 4 points.

14 point differential is actually very significant.

14 points is crazy. At Larkin's current ppg, he would need 21 extra games to make up that gap. He has 5.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I think for Larkin to surpass Panarin in points would be very difficult, assuming Panarin doesn't get injured for an extended period of time. However, I do think it is very possible that Larkin could potentially narrow the gap by going on a couple good runs from now to the end of the season and/or Panarin slowing down. Of course, it could just as easily go the other way as well in Panarin's favor, or even Eichel, Domi or any other rookie...

I think if Panarin were to finish the season with 70 points and Larkin finishes second with say 62, and Larkin also finishes way ahead in +/-, GWG as well as other statistical categories he could possibly walk away with the Calder.

Regardless, as cool as it would be to see Larkin win the Calder, it doesn't really matter a whole lot, because like others have mentioned, we've had a ton of runner ups over the years, and they've gone on to have pretty solid careers for themselves. I think Larkin has been one of the Wings best players all season and will continue to do so for many more to come. In the end, that's what matters...

[Echolalia 2,961]

I agree. The key to Larkin winning the Calder lies in winning the goal scoring race and maintaining the +/ lead. I think goals and +/- would weigh up well against points and assists. I don't know if that'll be enough to win, but I think that's the only realistic chance barring some crazy injury.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

I agree. The key to Larkin winning the Calder lies in winning the goal scoring race and maintaining the +/ lead. I think goals and +/- would weigh up well against points and assists. I don't know if that'll be enough to win, but I think that's the only realistic chance barring some crazy injury.

do you think that Larkin's All-star appearance will help him out in his quest?

[Echolalia 2,961]

I don't. There seems to be a lot more involved in getting to the all star game beside individual skill. Top choice guys have turned it down in the past, and skill isn't distributed evenly between teams anyway, so if you're not the best player on your team, odds are you aren't going to get the first choice at going to the All-star game, even if you're better than many others that were invited. I think there are several players not going to the All Star game that are better than Larkin, for example, so it's not an accurate measurement of skill. As I alluded to above, Zetterberg or Datsyuk might have been asked and turned it down as well.

[TheXym 2,606]

From Kevin Allen's column at USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2016/01/26/all-star-game-first-half-analysis-second-half-expectations/79272740/

6. Best Rookie: 1. Dylan Larkin (Detroit Red Wings) 2. Artemi Panarin (Chicago) 3. John Gibson (Anaheim)

Story: Panarin has more points, but Larkin has been the best all-around rookie. He has been Detroit's best forward. He's at plus-23, and has five game-winning goals.

[kickazz 5,459]

From Kevin Allen's column at USA Today:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/2016/01/26/all-star-game-first-half-analysis-second-half-expectations/79272740/

Kevin Allen is a voting member AND the president of the PHWA btw aka the guys who vote for Rookie of the Year (among other things). Great to see Larkin on his list (for now).

"Larkin has been the best all-around rookie. He has been Detroit’s best forward."

^ Agreed!

Edited January 27, 2016 by kickazz

[Echolalia 2,961]

Kevin Allen is a voting member AND the president of the PHWA btw aka the guys who vote for Rookie of the Year (among other things). Great to see Larkin on his list (for now).

"Larkin has been the best all-around rookie. He has been Detroits best forward."

^ Agreed!

Yes, yes, spread the word muahaha