ROY according to LGW

[kickazz 5,459]

Which is generally defined by most points.

Most proficient is defined by most points? Or is it defined by proficiency? Certainly you don't believe higher points means more proficient.

Edited February 2, 2016 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

Unfortunately the one with the highest points often ends up winning it, regardless of what the actual criteria should be (same with Norris for that matter). The only time the top rookie scorer hasn't won the Calder in recent history, its been a defensman or a goalie (good news for Panarin) to win it. You have to go back to 1998-99 when Chris Drury won the Calder to find the last forward to win without leading the rookie class in points.

Yeah, this is one of the awards among a couple other ones that I find a bit misleading with description. Norris as you mentioned is a good example. Best defenseman is the descriptor yet the award is generally given to the one with the highest points.

With that said though, I still have a feeling Larkin will win just because of the way things have been played out. I may end up being wrong and the trend may continue, and Panarin ends up winning it regardless of all the Larkin hype.

Orrrr McDavid comes back to retake the throne.

Edited February 2, 2016 by kickazz

[Echolalia 2,961]

Yeah, this is one of the awards among a couple other ones that I find a bit misleading with description. Norris as you mentioned is a good example. Best defenseman is the descriptor yet the award is generally given to the one with the highest points.

With that said though, I still have a feeling Larkin will win just because of the way things have been played out. I may end up being wrong and the trend may continue, and Panarin ends up winning it regardless of all the Larkin hype.

Orrrr McDavid comes back to retake the throne.

I think Larkin has a lot of arguments going for him, for sure. If the voters are willing to look at a multitude of evidence (some if it perhaps a bit complex) instead of just point totals, and Larkin can close the gap a bit on points and perhaps take the goal scoring lead, he def has a legit shot.

[kickazz 5,459]

Larkin now tied with Panarin in goals

[toby91_ca 620]

Tied for goals, but Panarin is 5th in scoring overall and Larkin is 51st.

If nothing changes, I'd find it close to impossible to have rookie that is 5th in league scoring not to win the Calder.

[chances14 227]

shame the wings are probably going to get robbed of another calder trophy. remember when barret jackman won it over zetterberg?

[Echolalia 2,961]

I wouldn't call it getting robbed. Panarin is absolutely lighting it up in Chicago.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Panarin is lighting it up at the same rate as Larkin...tied in lighting it up...Panarin has so many more points because he is playing with MVP Kane. Larkin is playing with Abby and a broken down Zetterberg. Could you imagine Larkin's points totals if he were also passing the puck off to someone more talented, may someone like Stamkos? I do agree, the "voters" will probably just look at point totals, and not the intagables, but if they looked at his linemates and situations as well, hands down D-Boz is the ROY. Not withstanding that Larkin leads the NHL at +25, Panarin is only a +10, which basically means Larkin plays more important minutes and in more important situations...

Edited February 7, 2016 by LeftWinger

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Panarin is lighting it up at the same rate as Larkin...tied in lighting it up...Panarin has so many more points because he is playing with MVP Kane. Larkin is playing with Abby and a broken down Zetterberg. Could you imagine Larkin's points totals if he were also passing the puck off to someone more talented, may someone like Stamkos? I do agree, the "voters" will probably just look at point totals, and not the intagables, but if they looked at his linemates and situations as well, hands down D-Boz is the ROY. Not withstanding that Larkin leads the NHL at +25, Panarin is only a +10, which basically means Larkin plays more important minutes and in more important situations...

Yes but Panera Bread probably won't be the future captain either.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Hockeymom1960

[Echolalia 2,961]

Panarin is lighting it up at the same rate as Larkin...tied in lighting it up...Panarin has so many more points because he is playing with MVP Kane. Larkin is playing with Abby and a broken down Zetterberg. Could you imagine Larkin's points totals if he were also passing the puck off to someone more talented, may someone like Stamkos? I do agree, the "voters" will probably just look at point totals, and not the intagables, but if they looked at his linemates and situations as well, hands down D-Boz is the ROY. Not withstanding that Larkin leads the NHL at +25, Panarin is only a +10, which basically means Larkin plays more important minutes and in more important situations...

The issue with saying Panarin's point totals are only as high as they are because he's playing with Kane is Kane has never in his career scored at the rate he's scoring now. He's played with Toews, Hossa, Sharp and many other guys over the years and nobody has set Kane up at the rate he's scoring now. Maybe some of that is Kane rising to the next level and I would agree with that to an extent. But you can't discount Panarin and say the kid is essentially freeloading off Kane's numbers. Panarin is an active participant in all those points and that assist column has been well earned thus far.

Also it's not a good argument to bring forth because if it applies to Panarin playing with Kane, than it also applies to Larkin playing with (not as good but still pretty good) Zetterberg and Abdelkader. Fans of Domi want nothing more than for the committee to embrace the argument you're suggesting because Domi is on a line with Duclair (another rookie) and Hanzal, which is quite benign compared to Zetterberg, Abdelkader, Kane, etc. So if we're going to give Larkin a 15 point handicap on Panarin cuz he plays with Kane, then Domi getting a 3 point handicap on Larkin is just as justified.

Edited February 7, 2016 by Echolalia

[kickazz 5,459]

The issue with saying Panarin's point totals are only as high as they are because he's playing with Kane is Kane has never in his career scored at the rate he's scoring now. He's played with Toews, Hossa, Sharp and many other guys over the years and nobody has set Kane up at the rate he's scoring now. Maybe some of that is Kane rising to the next level and I would agree with that to an extent. But you can't discount Panarin and say the kid is essentially freeloading off Kane's numbers. Panarin is an active participant in all those points and that assist column has been well earned thus far.

Also it's not a good argument to bring forth because if it applies to Panarin playing with Kane, than it also applies to Larkin playing with (not as good but still pretty good) Zetterberg and Abdelkader. Fans of Domi want nothing more than for the committee to embrace the argument you're suggesting because Domi is on a line with Duclair (another rookie) and Hanzal, which is quite benign compared to Zetterberg, Abdelkader, Kane, etc. So if we're going to give Larkin a 15 point handicap on Panarin cuz he plays with Kane, then Domi getting a 3 point handicap on Larkin is just as justified.

It's not exactly the same for Larkin though I guess.

Larkin scored with Richards as his linemate a few times and with Nyquist/Tatar as well. I'm not sure what the exact statistics are but I'm pretty sure he's scored with almost all the combination of linemates he has been given.

Edited February 7, 2016 by kickazz

[Buppy 1,720]

The issue with saying Panarin's point totals are only as high as they are because he's playing with Kane is Kane has never in his career scored at the rate he's scoring now. He's played with Toews, Hossa, Sharp and many other guys over the years and nobody has set Kane up at the rate he's scoring now. Maybe some of that is Kane rising to the next level and I would agree with that to an extent. But you can't discount Panarin and say the kid is essentially freeloading off Kane's numbers. Panarin is an active participant in all those points and that assist column has been well earned thus far.

Also it's not a good argument to bring forth because if it applies to Panarin playing with Kane, than it also applies to Larkin playing with (not as good but still pretty good) Zetterberg and Abdelkader. Fans of Domi want nothing more than for the committee to embrace the argument you're suggesting because Domi is on a line with Duclair (another rookie) and Hanzal, which is quite benign compared to Zetterberg, Abdelkader, Kane, etc. So if we're going to give Larkin a 15 point handicap on Panarin cuz he plays with Kane, then Domi getting a 3 point handicap on Larkin is just as justified.

Not to discount what you're saying or marginalize Panarin's contributions, but Kane did score at a similar rate for most of last year. He had kind of a slow start to the year, and a bit of a slump just before he got hurt, so his numbers didn't look as gaudy, but for about 40 games from the middle of November to the middle of February he was scoring similar to his rate this year.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

shame the wings are probably going to get robbed of another calder trophy. remember when barret jackman won it over zetterberg?

Who is captain of their team and Barret who?

[Echolalia 2,961]

Not to discount what you're saying or marginalize Panarin's contributions, but Kane did score at a similar rate for most of last year. He had kind of a slow start to the year, and a bit of a slump just before he got hurt, so his numbers didn't look as gaudy, but for about 40 games from the middle of November to the middle of February he was scoring similar to his rate this year.

Its close (depending on exactly when you want to cherry pick the numbers from) but still not as high as what he's scoring at now, and that period last year during his best stretch of hockey is also a smaller sample size than now. ~1.2p/g based on my calculations from mid November through February last year, compared to this year where he's currently at 1.36 for the whole season (October through now). Even if it was dead even, though, I still don't think its fair to Panarin to discount his contributions to those point totals, which you seem to be in agreement with me about. Its also comparing Kane's absolute best 3 month stretch from last year and ignoring any slumps he had, to this year's best and slumps and everything in between, which isn't an entirely fair comparison. If we looked at Kane's best three month stretch of this year and compared it to the aforementioned best three month stretch from last year, this year's three-month-best p/g is 1.46 from October through December, which is even more outrageous.

But either way, I don't think this is something that will be considered too deeply when they decide on a rookie of the year. Point total is extremely heavily favored when they make their decisions, particularly if the player is a forward.

[Buppy 1,720]

Its close (depending on exactly when you want to cherry pick the numbers from) but still not as high as what he's scoring at now, and that period last year during his best stretch of hockey is also a smaller sample size than now. ~1.2p/g based on my calculations from mid November through February last year, compared to this year where he's currently at 1.36 for the whole season (October through now). Even if it was dead even, though, I still don't think its fair to Panarin to discount his contributions to those point totals, which you seem to be in agreement with me about. Its also comparing Kane's absolute best 3 month stretch from last year and ignoring any slumps he had, to this year's best and slumps and everything in between, which isn't an entirely fair comparison. If we looked at Kane's best three month stretch of this year and compared it to the aforementioned best three month stretch from last year, this year's three-month-best p/g is 1.46 from October through December, which is even more outrageous.

But either way, I don't think this is something that will be considered too deeply when they decide on a rookie of the year. Point total is extremely heavily favored when they make their decisions, particularly if the player is a forward.

I doubt it would be a factor either, just saying it does seem somewhat likely that Kane has just elevated his game, starting about a month into last year.

[toby91_ca 620]

Most good players have gone a really good runs before, but you can't cherry pick a portion of a season and suggest this isn't new territory for Kane. Fact is, he's never produced at this level for this long. Now, I think he may be trailing off a bit though, so we'll see (Pretty sure Crosby has matched him or out-produced him over the past 30 games).

Speaking of Crosby, he had a stretch of 25-30 games several years ago where he produced well over 2ppg. If he were to put up 160pts in a season, I would suggest that would be entirely new territory, never produced at that level before...even though he would have over stretches.

[brett 1,029]

Panarin doesnt have fastest skater record, boom larkin wins.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Panarin doesnt have fastest skater record, boom larkin wins.

As panarin walks up to the stage to claim his award, Larkin speeds out of nowhere and swipes it away. Excellent demonstration of the Finders Keepers Act.

[Buppy 1,720]

Most good players have gone a really good runs before, but you can't cherry pick a portion of a season and suggest this isn't new territory for Kane. Fact is, he's never produced at this level for this long. Now, I think he may be trailing off a bit though, so we'll see (Pretty sure Crosby has matched him or out-produced him over the past 30 games).

Speaking of Crosby, he had a stretch of 25-30 games several years ago where he produced well over 2ppg. If he were to put up 160pts in a season, I would suggest that would be entirely new territory, never produced at that level before...even though he would have over stretches.

I don't know that you can really say 40 games is cherry picking, especially not when it comprised most of his season from last year and you're comparing it to 56 games this year. Sure, if it was something from a few years ago, and then he settled back down to normal, it might be different. Or if he finishes this year with ~110+ pts I'd say it's another step up even from last year. But right now, I'd have to say his offensive elevation started mid-November last year.

[FireCaptain 563]

Also known as the Kanye-Swift Effect.

As panarin walks up to the stage to claim his award, Larkin speeds out of nowhere and swipes it away. Excellent demonstration of the Finders Keepers Act.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

Also known as the Kanye-Swift Effect.

....

[Echolalia 2,961]

If he hosted the NHL awards I would watxh

[toby91_ca 620]

Panarin didn't play last night....Kane went scoreless....coincidence?

[marcaractac 3,963]

Panarin's age will definitely be a factor in the voters decision. Whether it is enough to sway the vote in Larkin's favour or not remains to be seen.

[toby91_ca 620]

I think age will be a factor, but will only matter if it's close, which it isn't right now, however, Panarin didn't play last night, not sure why or if he may be out for awhile. Haven't checked on that.