Datsyuk Now 7th in All-Time Wings Goals

[VM1138 1,921]

Toews is better than Datsyuk in his prime? Prove it.

By age 27, here are the hardware counts:

Stanleys = 3 to 1 Toews

Selkes = 1 to 0 Toews

Conn Smythes = 1 to 0 Toews

And point counts:

548 to 241 Toews

And +/- counts:

190 to 50 Toews

More everything for Toews at equal stages of their lives/careers.

Datsyuk has a higher points per game average, so if you only use ppg for your "better" argument, then you are right.

Otherwise, total fail.

Hardware isn't a great unit of comparison.

[toby91_ca 620]

Kliq, Toews has been in the Hart conversation, top 10 in 4 of the past 5 years.....which leads me to think of him as overrated of course. He's finished in 10th, 9th, 6th, and 4th....no votes in any other years. Datsyuk has had a 3rd place finish once and has also had 9th, 10th, 14th, 20th and 21st.

[kickazz 5,459]

Kliq, Toews has been in the Hart conversation, top 10 in 4 of the past 5 years.....which leads me to think of him as overrated of course. He's finished in 10th, 9th, 6th, and 4th....no votes in any other years. Datsyuk has had a 3rd place finish once and has also had 9th, 10th, 14th, 20th and 21st.

Meh unless you're top 3 technically it's not that big of a deal. I think you're only considered a "finalist" if your top 3. Which Datsyuk was in 2009. He was listed as a finalist by the press and NHL.

Edited February 23, 2016 by kickazz

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Let me ask you this - if Chicago wins the Stanley Cup again this year, does this argument change?

[kickazz 5,459]

Let me ask you this - if Chicago wins the Stanley Cup again this year, does this argument change?

Lol. You're a funny troll. I'll give you that much.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Lol. You're a funny troll. I'll give you that much.

Toews is going to end up being remembered like Jean Beliveau. Datsyuk is going to end up being remembered like Sid Abel.

[kliq 3,755]

Kliq, Toews has been in the Hart conversation, top 10 in 4 of the past 5 years.....which leads me to think of him as overrated of course. He's finished in 10th, 9th, 6th, and 4th....no votes in any other years. Datsyuk has had a 3rd place finish once and has also had 9th, 10th, 14th, 20th and 21st.

I am not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but if you are:

When the narrative some fans and media try to create is "best player in the NHL, the face of the league!" and you have not even been nominated for a Hart Trophy, AND you have never even been named to the "NHL first all star team", (he's only been named to a "NHL second all star team" once) I consider that overrated. Again, he is a very good player, I put him at the level of of a Patrice Bergeron which is still a very high level, he's just not as good as some say he is. Not even the best player on his team.

[kickazz 5,459]

It's easy to think highly of Toews in the playoffs when his team makes it far almost every year. If Dats made it to the finals every other year, he'd likely have good numbers as well.

Toews is a good player but he's also a lucky player in arguably the best franchise in current day hockey as far as playoff success is concerned. I mean the addition of Panarin has been such an impact. They just rinse and repeat even as they lose players and gain new finds like Panarin.

Edited February 24, 2016 by kickazz

[Bill Berzeench 310]

It's easy to think highly of Toews in the playoffs when his team makes it far almost every year. If Dats made it to the finals every other year, he'd likely have good numbers as well.

Toews is a good player but he's also a lucky player in arguably the best franchise in current day hockey as far as playoff success is concerned. I mean the addition of Panarin has been such an impact. They just rinse and repeat even as they lose players and gain new finds like Panarin.

You can do that when your captain and core are rock solid.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

So the stats Bill posted are correct? Doesn't Datsyuk has 2 cups ('02, '08)? If you want to take cups into account... I wouldn't diminish Datsyuk to only dangles when he showcases great skill and hockey iq, either cleanly stealing the puck while defending, those awesome saucer or no look passes, I was hoping he wore the C when Lids retired, but then understood why Z got it. I feel Dats does more for hockey, not only on but off the ice as well. Anyways I know y'all know all that better than me.

Edited February 24, 2016 by NerveDamage

[kickazz 5,459]

Hank was predicted to be future captain while we still had Yzerman.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

Hank was predicted to be future captain while we still had Yzerman.

See, I didn't know that. Back then, with my fanboy mentality, really wanted Dats to C up.

[toby91_ca 620]

Kliq...I wasn't being sarcastic, the fact that he has received so much consideration for the Hart in the past is one of the reasons I see him as overrated.

Just to clarify though...no one has ever been nominated for the Hart or any other NHL award....voters vote for whoever they want.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

If Chicago wins it again this year, this debate is over.

[kliq 3,755]

Kliq...I wasn't being sarcastic, the fact that he has received so much consideration for the Hart in the past is one of the reasons I see him as overrated.

Just to clarify though...no one has ever been nominated for the Hart or any other NHL award....voters vote for whoever they want.

My Bad, with some of the posts in this thread you can see why I could think that lol. By nominated I meant final 3, wrong choice of words.

[Echolalia 2,961]

So the stats Bill posted are correct? Doesn't Datsyuk has 2 cups ('02, '08)? If you want to take cups into account... I wouldn't diminish Datsyuk to only dangles when he showcases great skill and hockey iq, either cleanly stealing the puck while defending, those awesome saucer or no look passes, I was hoping he wore the C when Lids retired, but then understood why Z got it. I feel Dats does more for hockey, not only on but off the ice as well. Anyways I know y'all know all that better than me.

Billyboy was only comparing stats up to age 27 for each player. So Datsyuk only had a few season in the NHL and Toews had like 8. That conveniently excludes Datsyuk's other cup, selke trophies, and half of his statistical output, and compares it to Toews' entire NHL career. Thus Toews is clearly the best player. What Billyboy failed to do is include Emdog in the competition, and when we look at his stats, its clear Emdog is truly the best:

Taking both players stats from December 17th 2011 we have:

Emdog:

2 goals

1 assist

3 points

+2

2 faceoffs won

Toews:

0 goals

0 assists

0 points

+0

0 faceoffs won

Emdog is clearly better in every statistical category. THE STATS DONT LIE

Edited February 24, 2016 by Echolalia

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Billyboy was only comparing stats up to age 27 for each player. So Datsyuk only had a few season in the NHL and Toews had like 8. That conveniently excludes Datsyuk's other cup, selke trophies, and half of his statistical output, and compares it to Toews' entire NHL career. Thus Toews is clearly the best player.

Sorry. I realize it skews the argument, but how else are we going to do it? Someone said "in their primes", so i figured all we could use as comparisons for that measure are stats up to age 27. If we go with total careers, Toews might end up with 5 or 6 more cups, 1 or 2 more selkes, 100-200 more points, 3 or 4 more gold medals, etc etc etc than Datsyuk. I'm not Nostradomus, but it's looking like Toews is a sure fire Hall of Famer much like Stevie Y. Datsyuk is probably going to have to play a few more years to solidify his case for the HHOF.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Sorry. I realize it skews the argument, but how else are we going to do it? Someone said "in their primes", so i figured all we could use as comparisons for that measure are stats up to age 27. If we go with total careers, Toews might end up with 5 or 6 more cups, 1 or 2 more selkes, 100-200 more points, 3 or 4 more gold medals, etc etc etc than Datsyuk. I'm not Nostradomus, but it's looking like Toews is a sure fire Hall of Famer much like Stevie Y. Datsyuk is probably going to have to play a few more years to solidify his case for the HHOF.

If you want to look at comparing their primes take the best statistical season from each player and compare it. Their best season is by definition "their prime". If that's too small of a sample size take their top 3 or even top 5 statistical seasons.

And you keep going back to Stanley Cups, Gold metals and these other parameters that in no way measure an individual's talent, which has been demonstrated multiple times in this thread to be a silly way to approach the problem. I don't know why you keep having to rely on that.

[kliq 3,755]

If you guys want to compare the two statistically seasons, you obviously cant take total careers because Datsyuk has played so much longer, you can take up to 27 due to what was said above, and you cant take career averages as Datsyuk's averages have gone down with decline and injuries while Toews is still in his prime.

If you want to compare stats. the only thing you can do IMO is compare the averages of their top NHL seasons. Take each players best 3 years, find the average numbers and compare. I would do it, but I don't care enough as IMO this is no competition as I have made my opinions of Toews clear.

If you want to look at comparing their primes take the best statistical season from each player and compare it. Their best season is by definition "their prime". If that's too small of a sample size take their top 3 or even top 5 statistical seasons.

And you keep going back to Stanley Cups, Gold metals and these other parameters that in no way measure an individual's talent, which has been demonstrated multiple times in this thread to be a silly way to approach the problem. I don't know why you keep having to rely on that.

*EDIT* lol, I wrote my response before reading this.

Edited February 24, 2016 by kliq

[Bill Berzeench 310]

If you want to look at comparing their primes take the best statistical season from each player and compare it. Their best season is by definition "their prime". If that's too small of a sample size take their top 3 or even top 5 statistical seasons.

And you keep going back to Stanley Cups, Gold metals and these other parameters that in no way measure an individual's talent, which has been demonstrated multiple times in this thread to be a silly way to approach the problem. I don't know why you keep having to rely on that.

Are you serious? You honestly value points more than Stanley Cups? There's a reason Toews makes 10.5 million a year and Datsyuk makes 7. Chicago isnt asking their captain to win art ross trophies. They just want Stanley Cups. And Toews is delivering them.

[kickazz 5,459]

Are you serious? You honestly value points more than Stanley Cups? There's a reason Toews makes 10.5 million a year and Datsyuk makes 7. Chicago isnt asking their captain to win art ross trophies. They just want Stanley Cups. And Toews is delivering them.

Darren McCarty 4 Stanley cups bruh. He's better than both Datsyuk and Toews by your logic.

[kliq 3,755]

Darren McCarty 4 Stanley cups bruh. He's better than both Datsyuk and Toews by your logic.

Of course lol, there is no better way to compare individual accomplishments then to look at team success.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Are you serious? You honestly value points more than Stanley Cups? There's a reason Toews makes 10.5 million a year and Datsyuk makes 7. Chicago isnt asking their captain to win art ross trophies. They just want Stanley Cups. And Toews is delivering them.

When determining who is a better individual player? Absolutely I value individual stats over team stats. That's common sense.

[kickazz 5,459]

It's Bill against the world baby.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

Darren McCarty 4 Stanley cups bruh. He's better than both Datsyuk and Toews by your logic.

and thanks to him we have turtle day.

Awesome vid kickazz, love me some Tupac

"it's just me against the world baby, oahh, oahhhahh

I got nuttin to lose, it's just me against the world""

Edited February 24, 2016 by NerveDamage