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DickieDunn

Jensen

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Instead of cluttering up another tread that's not about him:

I don't see as many Griffins games as I want. My brother sees more, and I trust his opinion on players, because like me, he doesn't get caught up in hype and "he's a Red Wings prospect so he's going to be good." From what I have seen, and what he's seen, Jensen lacks strength, and offensive ability, isn't good positionally, and gets by in the AHL on superior speed. Against NHL players, his speed is negated quite a bit because A) NHL players are faster and B) NHL players are smarter and the game as a whole is faster.

Preseason points are as important as preseason wins. In other words, almost meaningless. You have to look at who the player was up against most of the time, and IIRC Jensen was used mostly against other AHL players trying to make their NHL teams as opposed to the established NHL players. If his 8 points or whatever it was really meant that he could contribute offensively, he'd have more than 11 points in GR. Of the 4 defensemen who are ahead of him on the Griffins in scoring, he's played in more games than 2 of them, and is significant;y behind all of them. (and yes, 6 points 2/3 of the way through the season is a good bit).

The real nail in his coffin for me is the fact that the Wings aren't giving him a look. If they saw anything in him, I think they'd have given him a shot by now. The fact that the guys who see him every day aren't promoting him is telling.

So my question for those of you who think he's being screwed over by not getting a chance and that he could be anything more than a 6/7 guy with some luck, what do you see other than his speed?

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By the sound of your post it seems like most of your point is addressing LeftWinger specifically. I don't get the feeling that Jensen has that much "hype" behind him.

My stance is this, he is a good d-man in the AHL and I believe at some point someone will give him a shot at the NHL level. There are so many factors that come into play when calling up prospects, that to say nobody would want him IMO is likely wrong. Not saying this is true, but what if XO was brought up over Jensen simply due to chemistry with Marchenko. Again, there are so many factors.

I am not saying that teams are clamoring for him, I just think that if you put him on waivers someone will take a shot on him. Then again, if he goes on waivers it will in September when a ton of teams are putting players on waivers. So given that fact, there is probably a better chance of him not being claimed that if he has to pass mid season. Though, at some point I think someone will give him a shot.

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Dickie, the more you talk about Jensen, the less I believe you've ever seen the guy play... Jensen's biggest assets include his strength and physicality, and the fact that he is extremely positionally sound. You say the complete oposite and then go on to say that he has "superior speed" when he isn't even THAT fast, just a very strong, fluent skater...

You're acting as if people are saying he's the next big thing, when in reality, for the most part, people including myself believe he will be a solid bottom pairing defenseman. I'm probably one of the only people that would place him above Ouellet on the depth chart, and that's fine. Ouellet may end up surprising me and becoming that top 4 guy (I hope so) but I just don't see it.

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Well, since I was referrenced do I get a 30 second response? :lol: Sorry couldn't resist in this election year!

Anyhow, I live a bit north of GR and have been there for over 3 years now, I do and did prior years get to see a good amount of Griffins games. I am just saying, that when I watched all four of the kids play at the same time, it just seemed like Jensen was a bit better IMO. I am not arguing that fact that there isn't something about him that is keeping him from getting his shot in Detroit. They do see him TONS more than me or anyone else here. I just said that I think he is more valuable than dickie thinks and I hope he gets a shot in Detroit. I'd hate to lose him for free, but that's business. Will Detroit be the worst team without him? Of course not, but if I'm slotting him to be a #6/#7 guy, he is better than Kindl and makes a buttload less money. I'd be fine with him slotting in #6/#7 next season, it means he will get the shot he deserves (IMO) and he could maybe steal a #5 job here. I'd rather have Jensen at #5 than Ericsson, for the money and for the quality of play. But I just call it as I see him play, maybe there's something else holding him back and if that's the case, that is too bad....but I do agree that if he is placed on waivers, someone will give him a shot and I hope he makes the best of it.

Edited by LeftWinger

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The reason I brought up his preseason performance is because Nestrasil's was mentioned. Jensen played well in the preseason, and if IIRC was one of the Red Wings' last cuts before the roster was finalized. I think it's unfair to dismiss his play at the NHL level when he hasn't played at the NHL level yet. Poor example right now, but Howard was a mess at the AHL level. No consistency whatsoever.

Considering the way the NHL is trending (more about the speed/skating than ever) and the way Blashill likes his defenders to be active in the play, I think Jensen could serve as a bottom-pairing guy. His skating ability allows him to rush with the puck without compromising his positioning.

I'll agree with you when you cite the "nail in the coffin" being that Detroit hasn't given him a shot yet - he's 25-years-old. I think if they had plans for him with the team, he would have been given a shot over Marchenko, or more recently Ouellet. I guess the point is that it would have been nice to see him get a shot. At this point, it would have been nice to see him get in a game or two with the organization.

Edited by Jesusberg

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Strong for the AHL isn't strong in the NHL.

With the exception of maybe a select few, all people are saying is that someone will likely give him a shot. There is a big difference between saying "this guy will be a great NHL D-man" and "This guy will likely be given a shot to be an NHL d-man".

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There's no issue with Jensen; he has all the qualities you'd want in a modern NHL defenseman. Sublime skater. Moves the puck exceptionally well (whether skating it or passing it). Positionally sound and responsible. Sees the ice well, reads plays at a high level. Competes harder than most, especially on the defensive side of the puck. Can run a power play and kill penalties. Shoots right and has a great shot. This is a good player.

The problem is the logjam and Kenny's refusal or inability to alleviate it. (He's a hoarder.)

Ouellet and Marchenko were NHL-ready a year and a half ago. By this point, each of them -- and Jensen -- is a better defenseman than Ericsson, Quincey, Kindl.

Edited by Dabura

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The problem Jensen has is that although his downside is AHL top 4 d-man, and projects to be somewhere between career AHL-er and 6/7 D-man in the NHL as things currently stand, his upside just isn't as high as those ahead of him in the depth chart. Oulette is a better outlet passer, Sproul has size and that shot, and Marchenko is a bit bigger and nastier. Were this the year he was drafted, when the wings had Lids, Rafalski, Kronner and Stuart eating up 20m+ between them, but providing an incredibly strong top 4 d, then he'd have had a shot as a reliable d-man with some jump...because he seems to offer a better all round game than Lebda. But right now the wings now have less quality but more NHL ready d-men, and given that they are in a partial rebuild, those with greater upside are just going to get the look first, particularly as Oulette and Marchenko have shown themselves to be fairly reliable. To bring Jensen up they'd have to send Marchenko down, as they can't send 2 x 2m+ dmen to GR via waivers unless they both fall off a cliff completely.

At this stage, Jensen's real competition is Kindl, Smith and Ericsson...there's no point bringing up someone who you have question marks about when every point matters to get the occasional game or be number 7 when you already have 7 D that can't be sent down, and another that has cemented a spot in the line-up.

Basically Jensen's got to blow the doors off in training camp in the summer, or his days as a wing are done. Unless miracle of miracles, Kenny makes a trade!

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I go to the griffins every couple weeks and I do not have very many good things to say about Jenson, whereas I have very good things to say about Russo and XO.

Even if you are just watching warmups Jenson just looks small, whereas Mantha looks like a giant on the ice. There is no doubt he can skate but he still gets beat a lot to the outside even with his speed and his offensive ability just doesn't shine through in the games I've been too. He doesn't pass the puck as well as the defenseman he is competing against. Sproul has been a disappointment as well, but at least he is substantially bigger than jenson and throws his weight around a lot more.

I personally just don't see an NHLer when looking at Jenson play. The wings have a lot of depth on D in the minors and on a stacked defensive core he just looks like a weak prospect. My last comment is the change in systems between this year and blash's last year really really hurt him. His skating was emphasized under Blash and this year the D aren't quite as active and so he is spending more time defending then igniting the offense which does not seem to work for him.

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I go to the griffins every couple weeks and I do not have very many good things to say about Jenson, whereas I have very good things to say about Russo and XO.

Even if you are just watching warmups Jenson just looks small, whereas Mantha looks like a giant on the ice. There is no doubt he can skate but he still gets beat a lot to the outside even with his speed and his offensive ability just doesn't shine through in the games I've been too. He doesn't pass the puck as well as the defenseman he is competing against. Sproul has been a disappointment as well, but at least he is substantially bigger than jenson and throws his weight around a lot more.

I personally just don't see an NHLer when looking at Jenson play. The wings have a lot of depth on D in the minors and on a stacked defensive core he just looks like a weak prospect. My last comment is the change in systems between this year and blash's last year really really hurt him. His skating was emphasized under Blash and this year the D aren't quite as active and so he is spending more time defending then igniting the offense which does not seem to work for him.

Totally agree with your assessments. Sproul and Jensen are not going to play Red Wings hockey. Russo and Ouellet have a chance if Smith and Quincey are gone next season. Our farm isnt as stacked as I thought it was 2 years ago. Tatar, Nyquist, Pulkkinen, Ouellet, Jensen, and Sproul have not turned into what I thought they were going to be. Mantha, Svechnikov, and Frk are not looking like sure fire guys either. Larkin and Athanasiou have the tools to be good NHLers. Starts with the speed. Check. Then the hands. Check. Athanasiou looks to be a little more gifted in tight, Larkin looks to be a lityle more gifted with ice awareness/hockey IQ. But the fact that Kenny "likes our team" and only wants to "kick some tires" is super annoying. The 6 guys I mentioned above all have some value now. Kenny should be getting what he can for them and opening the door for other players that are bigger and faster and win more puck battles and play better defense. Most of us do NOT like our team when it just scratches into the playoffs and gets bounced in the first round every year. I hate that!!! I dont know why Kenny likes it.

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"Most of us do NOT like our team..."? ummm, I don't really think that's accurate... Also, I love how you list all these players who "have not turned out", including Nyquist and Tatar... but believe that Frk is a top line NHL player...

that's not at all what was said. go back and re-read it. Nyquist and Tatar aren't as good as he thought, Frk doesn't look like a sure fire guy.

Edited by DickieDunn

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that's not at all what was said. go back and re-read it. Nyquist and Tatar aren't as good as he thought, Frk doesn't look like a sure fire guy.

ugh agree on Frk, his hype train in most of these threads is unreal. If Pulkinnen isn't taking off in the NHL, no way Frk can make an impact right away (if ever).

Edited by wingedominance13

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Dickie, I wasn't specifically talking about what Bill said in this thread, I'm talking about the constant ramblings of Bill in just about every single other thread about how Nyquist and Tatar suck, and how they need to be traded for whatever we can get... And Bill has stated several times in other threads that Frk is going to be a top line winger...

wingedominance13, there is not a single other person here that is hyping Frk, other than Bill...

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Dickie, I wasn't specifically talking about what Bill said in this thread, I'm talking about the constant ramblings of Bill in just about every single other thread about how Nyquist and Tatar suck, and how they need to be traded for whatever we can get... And Bill has stated several times in other threads that Frk is going to be a top line winger...

wingedominance13, there is not a single other person here that is hyping Frk, other than Bill...

I must see him post a lot then lol

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Totally agree with your assessments. Sproul and Jensen are not going to play Red Wings hockey. Russo and Ouellet have a chance if Smith and Quincey are gone next season. Our farm isnt as stacked as I thought it was 2 years ago. Tatar, Nyquist, Pulkkinen, Ouellet, Jensen, and Sproul have not turned into what I thought they were going to be. Mantha, Svechnikov, and Frk are not looking like sure fire guys either. Larkin and Athanasiou have the tools to be good NHLers. Starts with the speed. Check. Then the hands. Check. Athanasiou looks to be a little more gifted in tight, Larkin looks to be a lityle more gifted with ice awareness/hockey IQ. But the fact that Kenny "likes our team" and only wants to "kick some tires" is super annoying. The 6 guys I mentioned above all have some value now. Kenny should be getting what he can for them and opening the door for other players that are bigger and faster and win more puck battles and play better defense. Most of us do NOT like our team when it just scratches into the playoffs and gets bounced in the first round every year. I hate that!!! I dont know why Kenny likes it.

Doesn't stop you from thinking he should be on the Wings first line though does it?

I think Jensen will be a lot like Kindl as far as his NHL career goes. He'll play some games, but be the 7th dman a lot as well.

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I like Nick, wish he were in Detroit, but obvioiusly the "fan glasses" I wear blind me from reality. It's (painfully) obvious where the organization holds (both) Jensen and Sproul. If they were as good as my "glasses" tell me, they would've had some call-ups (not just to sit in the press box) and gotten some serious looks, like XO has. If neither of them never make the NHL in Detroit, I am still a fan and hope they stay in the organization for a long time. Taking my glasses off, it would still suck (on a personal level) if either of them did get claimed off waivers next season. I am a being real and coming to the conclusion that the odds of either of them becoming Detroit Red Wings permanently is most likely out of the question. Holland and Co. don't wear the same "glasses" as I do and would have had one of them up in XO's role if they were good enough. I still hope, since I am a fan of both, that somehow they get up here and wear the Winged Wheel forever, but even with that being said, I sure hope Holland can at least get something in return for them instead of just waiving them. If they were to clear good, then, I can still root for them to one day, possibly, hone their game in the right direction and score (pun intended) a coveted spot on the Detroit team!

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that's not at all what was said. go back and re-read it. Nyquist and Tatar aren't as good as he thought, Frk doesn't look like a sure fire guy.

Thank you, Dickie. I've seen you misquoted a lot in other threads as well. I dont really need the personal assaults questioning my fandom and character, but I can take it. I have thick skin.

Krsmith, there is a quote button so you can include ALL of what I said. Please use that going forward so my words and thoughts arent taken out of context. I have different opinions than you do on our team and players, including Jensen. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I like Nick, wish he were in Detroit, but obvioiusly the "fan glasses" I wear blind me from reality. It's (painfully) obvious where the organization holds (both) Jensen and Sproul. If they were as good as my "glasses" tell me, they would've had some call-ups (not just to sit in the press box) and gotten some serious looks, like XO has. If neither of them never make the NHL in Detroit, I am still a fan and hope they stay in the organization for a long time. Taking my glasses off, it would still suck (on a personal level) if either of them did get claimed off waivers next season. I am a being real and coming to the conclusion that the odds of either of them becoming Detroit Red Wings permanently is most likely out of the question. Holland and Co. don't wear the same "glasses" as I do and would have had one of them up in XO's role if they were good enough. I still hope, since I am a fan of both, that somehow they get up here and wear the Winged Wheel forever, but even with that being said, I sure hope Holland can at least get something in return for them instead of just waiving them. If they were to clear good, then, I can still root for them to one day, possibly, hone their game in the right direction and score (pun intended) a coveted spot on the Detroit team!

Well said. They are exiting the call-up phase of their careers and entering the career minor leaguer phase. Fact is neither of them skate well enough to be effective at the NHL level.

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I wonder how much of Pulkkinens success in the AHL had to do with Meile? Because he's making Frk look just as good right now. Also, while Frk is a long, long, way from an NHL player, his shot seems just as good as Pulkkinens, he's no slower (or faster), and his size alone will help him protect the puck better. I will make a bold prediction that he could we a decent third line winger and power play guy one day. Still needs a little development, but he finds spots well, shoots well, and is a decent in high traffic areas. Late bloomer no doubt, but I don't think he's a bust at all.

Edited by kipwinger

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