Toews or Kane

[kliq 3,755]

I was at the game tonight, and I was trying to pay really close attention to both of them.

From what I saw tonight, Kane seemed to be much better then Toews. Now, I'm simply talking offense as I wasn't paying attention to their defense at all, but I'm curious what others think. Toews appeared good, but Kane just seem like a threat every time he touches the puck, its crazy how easy he makes it look.

Now I ask this question hockey wise. Lets pretend Kane is not a d****e

Edited March 3, 2016 by kliq

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Kane is better offensively, Toews is the more complete player.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

From a pure offensive standpoint of course Kane.

In terms of leadership, complete game and being a great person it's Toews.

Most underrated player on their team: Brent Seabrook

Edited March 3, 2016 by frankgrimes

[kliq 3,755]

I would never wish an injury on anyone, but I think the only way we will ever find out how much Towes means to the Blackhawks is he ever goes down with an injury for a long period of time.

I agree Toews is the better 2-way player, but I think Kane is the more impactful player and a greater reason for the Hawks success. Completely agree with you Frank, Towes is definitely the better person.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

I take Kane over Toews any day. Toews two way game is overrated, Kopitar and Bergeron will be getting selkes before Toews.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bill Berzeench 310]

I take Kane over Toews any day. Toews two way game is overrated, Kopitar and Bergeron will be getting selkes before Toews.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One day, Bergeron and Toews will win a Selke. I can feel it.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

One day, Bergeron and Toews will win a Selke. I can feel it.

It's pretty obvious I was talking about going forward. Toews blows, deal with it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kipwinger 8,522]

I really like Toews and think he's a very good player. But Kane is on another level. Toews is one of then 10 best centers in the league. Kane is one of the three best wingers. Despite the fact that its harder to be a good center than a good winger, if forced to choose I take Kane every time.

[kickazz 5,459]

I really like Toews and think he's a very good player. But Kane is on another level. Toews is one of then 10 best centers in the league. Kane is one of the three best wingers. Despite the fact that its harder to be a good center than a good winger, if forced to choose I take Kane every time.

Agreed. Very good assessment.

If you asked me 5 years ago I would have picked Toews. But it's pretty obvious that Kane's offensive ability has vastly surpassed Toews. These last two years, Kane has been incredible. I'm not a fan of him as a person but all things being equal if I had to build a team around Toews of Kane I'd pick Kane. Decent defensive centers aren't too hard to come by (Toews, Bergeron, Kopitar, Pav, Z, Backes, Kesler, O' Rielly) in this era but creative consistent scoring wingers are in my opinion (only Benn, Kane and Ovie is all I can think of really).

I think leadership is a bit overrated. If I had to pick between Ovie and Shane Doan I'd pick Ovie every time even though Shane Doan is probably the best leader and captain in the entire league. So while Toews is a great captain and Kane is a s***ty person, I'd still pick Kane if a game 7 is on the line.

Edited March 4, 2016 by kickazz

[kliq 3,755]

Agreed. Very good assessment.

If you asked me 5 years ago I would have picked Toews. But it's pretty obvious that Kane's offensive ability has vastly surpassed Toews. These last two years, Kane has been incredible. I'm not a fan of him as a person but all things being equal if I had to build a team around Toews of Kane I'd pick Kane. Decent defensive centers aren't too hard to come by (Toews, Bergeron, Kopitar, Pav, Z, Backes, Kesler, O' Rielly) in this era but creative consistent scoring wingers are in my opinion (only Benn, Kane and Ovie is all I can think of really).

I think leadership is a bit overrated. If I had to pick between Ovie and Shane Doan I'd pick Ovie every time even though Shane Doan is probably the best leader and captain in the entire league. So while Toews is a great captain and Kane is a s***ty person, I'd still pick Kane if a game 7 is on the line.

Completely agree. Toews does appear to be a good leader, but at the end of the day the culture and system in Chicago is a very strong one from Bowman to Quenville to Toews to the rest of the team. You take Towes out, and put the C on Seabrook or Keith, I still think Chicago is an elite team and can win the Cup. You take Kane out, I think they drop significantly offensively and are not able to win 16 games in the spring.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Toews is better all around player, like Feds. Kane is better pure offense player, like Yzerman.

[chaps80 1,591]

Kane is better offensively, Toews is the more complete player.

This.

[kickazz 5,459]

Toews is better all around player, like Feds. Kane is better pure offense player, like Yzerman.

Yzerman was a complete player as well. Feds was just better defensively and a flashy guy. Fedorov was like the Datsyuk. Yzerman was like the Zetterberg.

Kane and Yzerman are nothing alike. Kane is just pure offense. Yzerman was a Selke winner and one of the best faceoff guys in the league. Not to mention he killed A LOT of penalties.

Edited March 4, 2016 by kickazz

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Yzerman was a complete player as well. Feds was just better defensively and a flashy guy. Fedorov was like the Datsyuk. Yzerman was like the Zetterberg.

Kane and Yzerman are nothing alike. Kane is just pure offense. Yzerman was a Selke winner and one of the best faceoff guys in the league. Not to mention he killed A LOT of penalties.

Yzerman was just like Kane until 1996. Prolific scorer, but not a super strong 200' game. Then Bowman said my way or the highway, and Stevie Y became a great 2 way player. Kane can be an offensive juggernaut without much focus on the backcheck because his team is so strong.

[VM1138 1,921]

I lost a lot of respect for Toews in the 2013 series. He didn't seem like a very good leader, almost single handedly costing his teen the series and winning like Crosby. Until then I bought the hype of his great leadership but I think Seabrook might be the better leader in that team.

[kickazz 5,459]

Yzerman was just like Kane until 1996. Prolific scorer, but not a super strong 200' game. Then Bowman said my way or the highway, and Stevie Y became a great 2 way player. Kane can be an offensive juggernaut without much focus on the backcheck because his team is so strong.

Yzerman was killing penalties and blocking shots well before 1996. I suggest you rent some old hockey videos.

Edited March 4, 2016 by kickazz

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Yzerman was killing penalties and blocking shots well before 1996. I suggest you rent some old hockey videos.

Yzerman has been as complete as a player as their is. Guy would have received even more awards if it weren't for the two megastars known as Gretzky and Super Mario Lemieux.

But man finding a guy like him again, will be next to impossible. As great as Toews is - and he is unbelievable - the guy still has some ways to go in order to become as great as Stevie but the sad thing is...he is well on his way.

Seabrook for sure is one of the leaders on that team and thanks to all their starpower he is so underrate. Easily a top 10 defenseman in this League and yet Blackhawks fans were complaining when he received his much deserved extension some months ago.

Edited March 4, 2016 by frankgrimes

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Yzerman was killing penalties and blocking shots well before 1996. I suggest you rent some old hockey videos.

I think you just need to read. I will get you started with this. It's a little nicer way of remembering it, even though it didn't go down quite as politely as Bowman makes it seem in his quote.

https://www.nhl.com/news/when-yzerman-bought-in-overall-success-followed/c-504907

[kickazz 5,459]

I think you just need to read. I will get you started with this. It's a little nicer way of remembering it, even though it didn't go down quite as politely as Bowman makes it seem in his quote.

https://www.nhl.com/news/when-yzerman-bought-in-overall-success-followed/c-504907

And I will finish you with this -

http://espn.go.com/core/espn/magazine/archives/news/story?page=magazine-19980615-article26

Yzerman had the ability to play a two way game since juniors. He focused more on it in 1993 when Bowman came in. Not in 1996 as you originally stated. Yzerman always had it in him and didn't apply it because they needed his offense in the 80s. Kane is NOT known for any sort of inherent defensive ability and likely never will be. So to make a comparison to Kane and Yzerman is a joke. If anything comparing Toews to Yzerman might make a little more sense. Except Yzerman was a much better offensive player and probably about the same as Toews in his defensive abilities.

"I've always thought of Stevie as a good defensive player," says Pang, who played midget hockey with Yzerman. "People forget that he played his junior hockey at Peterborough, where you have to play both ends of the rink. And they forget that when he arrived in Detroit, the team wasn't very good, and they needed his offensive skills."

Yzerman's career took a U-turn in 1993 with the arrival of Bowman. "Scotty wanted the team to think defense first," Yzerman says. "He wanted me to model my game after Jacques Lemaire, who played for him in Montreal."

Edited March 4, 2016 by kickazz

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Good job, kickazz. That article is an excellent punctuation to MY argument. I read it all, and it says EXACTLY what I'm saying!!!

[kickazz 5,459]

I read

Best joke I've heard all day. And here we thought you had trouble reading/interpreting forum posts.

Kane over Toews. All day any day.

Who would you pick Bill berzzzzzzench?

Edited March 4, 2016 by kickazz

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Best joke I've heard all day. And here we thought you had trouble reading/interpreting forum posts.

Kane over Toews. All day any day.

Who would you pick Bill berzzzzzzench?

Kane is so fricking good ON the ice, but the knucklehead factor is not dismissible. I think if I'm looking at long term (Blackhawks), I take Toews. If I'm looking at short term (Olympics), I take Kane. Tough to compare against each other because of the different elements. They compliment each other as a pair, and I think that's really what we lack. We have the responsible, dynamic centerman in Datsyuk, but we dont have the all out offensive dynamo (Yzerman) anymore. I miss 19. He hit the 7 the best I've ever seen a player from 10 feet away do it.

[kipwinger 8,522]

Most wingers never get much recognition for being good defensively. They just have so much less responsibility in that regard. Think about Hossa for instance, excellent defensively but never talked about the way Datsyuk, Bergeron, of Kopitar is. So its easy to see why people overlook Kane's defense. That and because " he's bad defensively" has become the most overused pejorative in the hockey universe. But Kane isn't really bad defensively. He's not a future Sellke winner (neither are any wingers) but he backchecks hard and picks up his man on the rush. What else is he supposed to do?

He's also such a good possession player that he's almost never playing defense. So what's it matter?

"He's bad defensively" is right up there with "Red Wings fans are spoiled" on the list of dumb cliches that irritate the hell out of me.

[Bill Berzeench 310]

Most wingers never get much recognition for being good defensively. They just have so much less responsibility in that regard. Think about Hossa for instance, excellent defensively but never talked about the way Datsyuk, Bergeron, of Kopitar is. So its easy to see why people overlook Kane's defense. That and because " he's bad defensively" has become the most overused pejorative in the hockey universe. But Kane isn't really bad defensively. He's not a future Sellke winner (neither are any wingers) but he backchecks hard and picks up his man on the rush. What else is he supposed to do?

He's also such a good possession player that he's almost never playing defense. So what's it matter?

"He's bad defensively" is right up there with "Red Wings fans are spoiled" on the list of dumb cliches that irritate the hell out of me.

Who said he's bad defensively?

[kipwinger 8,522]

Someone on the last page said Kane had no innate defensive ability. Which is a crock. People don't understand how defense has changed from the old days. Theres a great quote by Dave Tippett which explains it. Sadly I can't attach it from my phone. But essentially it says possession matters more than traditional "defensive skills" like checking and blocking shots. People think Glendening is a good defensive player, and Tatar a bad one, despite the fact that Glendening plays the entire shift in his zone and Tatar plays in the other end. Same with Kane. Trying to justify hating on him by saying "he's bad defensively" demonstrates an insanely archaic way of thinking about hockey.

Edited March 4, 2016 by kipwinger