Looking ahead at expansion draft

[Jacko 3]

So now that trade deadline is past and we know more or less what player we have. How should Detroit reason? I know how i would, protect the youth, expose every veteran not named Zetterberg and more or less try to "force" Vegas to atleast pick up one "bad contract". Because they would probably try to get the cheap ones with most upside. I would go with this list (If one of Nyquist or Tatar would be traded before, that would be great and opens up a spot) I would go 7+3+1; Zetterberg, Nielsen, AA, Mantha, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan (cause if 10 games where interested in him during trade deadline, Vegas will to witch would prevent us from getting rid of a bad contract) + Green, Jensen and Sproul (right handed dmens are hard to find, specially those with offensive upside, i do like XO though, but i like Sprouls upside more) + Mrazek Exposed goalies: Howard, Coreau (one with bad contract and health problems, with very inconsistant and turning 26, not a kid anymore so wouldnt be the end of the world to loose Jared either, i predict none of them gets picked) Dmens: XO, DDK, Ericsson, Kronwall... I went back and forth here, but i really dont think Vegas would pick DDK with his 5 x 5 contract after the horrendous season he is having. If he did it would only shred another big overpaid contract for really a mediocre player, so not the end of the world... He is still "just" 27 (its his birthday in 3 days) so sure, its a possibillity he can improve but reality is that he should be closer to his prime then that he would be that much better in the future... XO is in my mind bigger possibility gets picked, he was a real good dman in juniors and he can still improve. Big E, Kronwall... Zero chance they get picked up. NONE. That remains onf Forwards: Abby, Helm, Glenny.... Frk, Callahan? Or did i forget anyone? Either way, pick one, aaaaanyone... Helm and Abby is useful bottom six players, but their contracts makes them very much expendable... I can see them in a few years be a huge weight for this team to carry... Glenny with his new 1,8 x 4 years contract is a stretch aswell, he is a hard worker sure, but his skill level is pretty much medicore at AHL level... So my guess with this strategy, Wings would loose Helm, DDK (both would be for us a big salary dump with money better to use elsewhere, like in Larkin and Manthas extensions after next season) or XO (who could have a pretty decent NHL career, but reallyy nothing special). I can live with that...

Edited March 4, 2017 by Jacko

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Ok, now that we know what our roster will look like come expansion.  Here is what I'd expect to be as our protected list and if it is, I agree with it:

 

Nielsen

Zetterberg

Mantha

Athanasiou

Abdelkader

Tatar

Helm

 

Dekeyser

Green

Jensen

 

Mrazek

....maybe, MAYBE you replace one of the last three forwards with Nyquist.  I've actually seen some mock-ups, cannot find them now, but I've seen the exact list above, but with Sheahan protected.  I find it hard to believe that Sheahan garners a protect, but in a rebuild, who knows, ya?

 

So in my list this leaves unprotected: Nyquist, Sheahan, Miller, Tangradi, Frk, Glendening, Nosek, Callahan, Street, Kronwall, Ericsson, Ouellet, Sproul, McIlrath, Lashoff, Howard, Coreau, Pasquale.

Edited March 4, 2017 by LeftWinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

I don't know why you keep suggesting that Holland will leave Nyquist unprotected. There's literally zero chance that happens, no matter how much you inexplicably hate on him. I'm still hoping there will be a trade before the expansion draft, and maybe Nyquist is the player we move, but if we do decide to move him, there will be a decent return. We're not just going to give a player of his ability away for nothing...

[amato 3,210]

Our roster today won't necessarily be our expansion draft day roster. Trades can still happen between now and the expansion draft.. we could technically trade someone today, they'd just be ineligible for playoffs. 

[kliq 3,755]

If Sheahan is actually worth a 1st round pick, we need to protect him or we need to make the trade prior to the draft.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

6 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't know why you keep suggesting that Holland will leave Nyquist unprotected. There's literally zero chance that happens, no matter how much you inexplicably hate on him. I'm still hoping there will be a trade before the expansion draft, and maybe Nyquist is the player we move, but if we do decide to move him, there will be a decent return. We're not just going to give a player of his ability away for nothing...

If he moves Nyquist before the draft fine, but Guarantee he protects Abby before Nyquist. I hate on Helm too, but guess what, I didn't put Nosek up there just to leave Helm off. Listen, we have to shed salary. Its a business, if someone claimed Nyquist that would help us tremendously.  So you're saying he protects Nyquist and Tatar and leaves one of Helm/Abby off? I don't see him leaving Helm or Abby off...so what if I hate Nyquist, Helm brings more to the team than Nyquist. Helm is bottom 6 and isn't forced to be in the top 6 (too often) where he doesn't fit. Nyquist is horrible, yet he still gets top 3 minutes. That spot belongs to a player that has earned it, Nyquist has been a bust since his deal, face it. If he is to be on the team, he needs to start on the 4th and earn his way back up. Leaving Nyquist unprotected is a no brainer. There is no "2014 Nyquist" making a comeback, he's done, spent, over, he loses, he gets nothing...but a fat paycheck he hasn't earned since he signed it. You lose Nyquist, pay Tatar Nyquist money and you have the better player.  Holland WILL NOT leave Abby or Helm unprotected. 100% guarantee. So its either Nyquist or Tatar, and Tatar is the better player, always has been, he wants Nyquist money, ditch Nyquist the Bust and keep the better payer in Tatar.

Edited March 4, 2017 by LeftWinger

[kliq 3,755]

11 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

If he moves Nyquist before the draft fine, but Guarantee he protects Abby before Nyquist. I hate on Helm too, but guess what, I didn't put Nosek up there just to leave Helm off. Listen, we have to shed salary. Its a business, if someone claimed Nyquist that would help us tremendously.  So you're saying he protects Nyquist and Tatar and leaves one of Helm/Abby off? I don't see him leaving Helm or Abby off...so what if I hate Nyquist, Helm brings more to the team than Nyquist. Helm is bottom 6 and isn't forced to be in the top 6 (too often) where he doesn't fit. Nyquist is horrible, yet he still gets top 3 minutes. That spot belongs to a player that has earned it, Nyquist has been a bust since his deal, face it. If he is to be on the team, he needs to start on the 4th and earn his way back up. Leaving Nyquist unprotected is a no brainer. There is no "2014 Nyquist" making a comeback, he's done, spent, over, he loses, he gets nothing...but a fat paycheck he hasn't earned since he signed it. You lose Nyquist, pay Tatar Nyquist money and you have the better player.  Holland WILL NOT leave Abby or Helm unprotected. 100% guarantee. So its either Nyquist or Tatar, and Tatar is the better player, always has been, he wants Nyquist money, ditch Nyquist the Bust and keep the better payer in Tatar.

No he's not, he's a solid 2nd line guy capable of getting 60 points being paid 4.75mil, really not a bad contact at all. NOBODY is saying 2014 Nyquist is coming back, 2014 Nyquist at the pace he played between January and April was playing Hart Trophy caliber hockey and I dont think there is a single poster on the board that has ever said we will see that version of him again. I dont get why you are so over the top with him, he really is your new Franzen. 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

1 minute ago, kliq said:

No he's not, he's a solid 2nd line guy capable of getting 60 points being paid 4.75mil, really not a bad contact at all. NOBODY is saying 2014 Nyquist is coming back, 2014 Nyquist at the pace he played between January and April was playing Hart Trophy caliber hockey and I dont think there is a single poster on the board that has ever said we will see that version of him again. I dont get why you are so over the top with him, he really is your new Franzen. 

In NHL 17 maybe.  There's a good chance he never tops 40 again.

 

Helm, Abdelkader, andmost likely Gendening will be protected because if he doesn't, that would be too close to Holland admitting that he shouldn't have signed them to those deals, and he won't do that.

[krsmith17 7,191]

15 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

If he moves Nyquist before the draft fine, but Guarantee he protects Abby before Nyquist. I hate on Helm too, but guess what, I didn't put Nosek up there just to leave Helm off. Listen, we have to shed salary. Its a business, if someone claimed Nyquist that would help us tremendously.  So you're saying he protects Nyquist and Tatar and leaves one of Helm/Abby off? I don't see him leaving Helm or Abby off...so what if I hate Nyquist, Helm brings more to the team than Nyquist. Helm is bottom 6 and isn't forced to be in the top 6 (too often) where he doesn't fit. Nyquist is horrible, yet he still gets top 3 minutes. That spot belongs to a player that has earned it, Nyquist has been a bust since his deal, face it. If he is to be on the team, he needs to start on the 4th and earn his way back up. Leaving Nyquist unprotected is a no brainer. There is no "2014 Nyquist" making a comeback, he's done, spent, over, he loses, he gets nothing...but a fat paycheck he hasn't earned since he signed it. You lose Nyquist, pay Tatar Nyquist money and you have the better player.  Holland WILL NOT leave Abby or Helm unprotected. 100% guarantee. So its either Nyquist or Tatar, and Tatar is the better player, always has been, he wants Nyquist money, ditch Nyquist the Bust and keep the better payer in Tatar.

No, it definitely would not help us if Vegas claimed Nyquist. Nyquist is FAR from "horrible", and his contract isn't even bad. He's having a down year, but so is virtually every other Red Wing... Like I said before, no matter how much YOU dislike him, he is a very good 2nd line winger, and you don't just give them away... I'd bet anything that he would leave Helm unprotected before Nyquist or Tatar, and this coming from one of Helm's biggest supporters. I still say there will either be a trade before the expansion draft, so we can protect all 7 forwards without leaving any key players unprotected, or there will be a deal in place with Vegas, either to take a certain player (Ericsson), or not take a certain unprotected player (Helm)...

[kliq 3,755]

6 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

In NHL 17 maybe.  There's a good chance he never tops 40 again.

 

Helm, Abdelkader, andmost likely Gendening will be protected because if he doesn't, that would be too close to Holland admitting that he shouldn't have signed them to those deals, and he won't do that.

Nah, he could easily put up 60 with the right coach playing in the right role. Even this year which is an awful year for him, he is on pace to score 42 points (if he played 82 games).

That doesnt even make any sense, every player on the team was signed to a contract by Holland, so with that logic every player he doesnt protect is "an admission of guilt".

Edited March 4, 2017 by kliq

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

In NHL 17 maybe.  There's a good chance he never tops 40 again.

Helm, Abdelkader, andmost likely Gendening will be protected because if he doesn't, that would be too close to Holland admitting that he shouldn't have signed them to those deals, and he won't do that.

I'll bet anything Nyquist tops 40 again. Hell, it's even possible (not likely) he hits 40 this year... Nyquist is a 50ish point producer on a good team with good coaching. C'mon Dickie, you b**** about Blashill more than anybody, but don't think he has anything to do with Nyquist's lack of production?

Abdelkader will definitely be protected, Helm could go either way, but zero chance Glendening gets protected...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

4 minutes ago, kliq said:

Nah, he could easily put up 60 with the right coach playing in the right role. Even this year an awful year from his he is on pace to score 42 points.

That doesnt even make any sense, every player on the team was signed to a contract by Holland, so with that logic every player he doesnt protect is "an admission of guilt".

NVM, I was talking about Abdelkader 

The other deals weren't recently signed, long term deals.  He already locked Nielsen in with the NMC the first year.

Edited March 4, 2017 by DickieDunn

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 minute ago, DickieDunn said:

16 points in 44 games isn't a 42 point pace.  

The other deals weren't recently signed, long term deals.  He already locked Nielsen in with the NMC the first year.

Where are you getting these stats?...

[kliq 3,755]

2 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

16 points in 44 games isn't a 42 point pace.  

The other deals weren't recently signed, long term deals.  He already locked Nielsen in with the NMC the first year.

edit...saw your corrected post.

Edited March 4, 2017 by kliq

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Now Nyquist is capable of 60 points...if that don't have wishfull "playoff Franzen" written all over it, I don't know what has.

He has played top 6 all season long...not gonna get 60. He's never hit 60. This reminds me of Hudler is capable of 60-70 points bullcrap I endured during his failed time here. Give it up, Nyquist, while you may be right about him being protected, because Holland is that big of an idiot, but he will not be a 60 point player and will take up a top 6 spot while keeping better players in the bottom 6.

[kickazz 5,459]

5 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Now Nyquist is capable of 60 points...if that don't have wishfull "playoff Franzen" written all over it, I don't know what has.

He has played top 6 all season long...not gonna get 60. He's never hit 60. This reminds me of Hudler is capable of 60-70 points bullcrap I endured during his failed time here. Give it up, Nyquist, while you may be right about him being protected, because Holland is that big of an idiot, but he will not be a 60 point player and will take up a top 6 spot while keeping better players in the bottom 6.

He hasn't go check on your info. Not even going to read the rest of the post since the first part of it is false. 

Played 3rd line combos all the way until January actually. Didn't get top 6 until Tatar got demoted from Zetterbergs line and Nyquist got promoted.  

 

Edited March 5, 2017 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 4,961]

No need to check info...top 6. You check. I'll tell you right now, fact he was 6th in total on ice average before his 6 game suspension where he now sits tied for 8th with Mantha. Top 6 minutes...fact. you're welcome. 

[kickazz 5,459]

5 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

No need to check info...top 6. You check. I'll tell you right now, fact he was 6th in total on ice average before his 6 game suspension where he now sits tied for 8th with Mantha. Top 6 minutes...fact. you're welcome. 

http://dobberhockey.com/players/Gustav-Nyquist

Combined 61% of the season 3rd line combinations with Larkin, Helm, Nielsen, Vanek as partners and 39% on 1st line with Mantha and Zetterberg.

Done.

And your icetime crap includes PP times, subtract that and his 5 on 5 ice time is less than Tatars. Why? Because he primarily played third line minutes. It's a bit complicated mathetmatics, so I can see why you may have perceived it a certain way. 

Edited March 5, 2017 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Top 6 minutes is top 6 minutes...period. top 6 minutes and not capable of 60 points like he is touted by you guys to be. Again, top 6 minutes in on ice average. I don't know where the dispute is ...

[kickazz 5,459]

5 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Top 6 minutes is top 6 minutes...period. top 6 minutes and not capable of 60 points like he is touted by you guys to be. Again, top 6 minutes in on ice average. I don't know where the dispute is ...

You said he's top 6 now you're changing it to top 6 "minutes" lol. Nyquist hasn't played top 6 role all season. He primarily played on the 3rd line first half of the season. Overall minutes wise with the help of the PP sure he's top 6 "minutes" but 5 on 5 (which is 90% of the game) he was playing with 3rd liners until the last couple months. 

Edited March 5, 2017 by kickazz

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Now Nyquist is capable of 60 points...if that don't have wishfull "playoff Franzen" written all over it, I don't know what has.

He has played top 6 all season long...not gonna get 60. He's never hit 60. This reminds me of Hudler is capable of 60-70 points bullcrap I endured during his failed time here. Give it up, Nyquist, while you may be right about him being protected, because Holland is that big of an idiot, but he will not be a 60 point player and will take up a top 6 spot while keeping better players in the bottom 6.

Please just try to use logic for one minute and take your blind hate out of the equation. If Nyquist in a bad system with a bad coach is capable of getting 42 points, you really dont think its possible with the right line mates, in a good system, with a good coach to get 60? I am not saying 80 or 90 or something ridiculous, we are talking 60 points, the guy is 27 years old, I have a hard time believing he is "done".

Very funny you use Hudler as an example saying him getting 60-70 points is bullcrap considering in Calgary with the right linemates in the right situation he did get 76 points at 30 years old. Is this truly how blind your hate is? Even after someone accomplishes something you claim impossible, you still in retrospect say it was impossible? You dont see the flawed logic there?

Also, please stop saying he is taking a top 6 spot when it has been proven to you that he has not. 

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Top 6 in minutes played is playing top 6. I said he's been playing top 6 all season long..

I said Hudler was never going to get 70 in his time here, and I was correct. I don't care if he got 100 on a different team. Let Nyquist go get his 60 on Calgary, he could get 300 on Calgary for all I care. He gets l paid to score goals, the last two seasons he's failed miserably and shows no sign of correcting that. System, coaching, whatever, then move along and score somewhere else. I don't want to watch a player make $5Mish a year and only score 10 goals...if he's lucky. No, I don't defend Abby, he gets paid to do other things as well. A bit too much and too long, but again, no way Holland opts to leave Abby unprotected. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

[krsmith17 7,191]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Top 6 in minutes played is playing top 6. I said he's been playing top 6 all season long..

I said Hudler was never going to get 70 in his time here, and I was correct. I don't care if he got 100 on a different team. Let Nyquist go get his 60 on Calgary, he could get 300 on Calgary for all I care. He gets l paid to score goals, the last two seasons he's failed miserably and shows no sign of correcting that. System, coaching, whatever, then move along and score somewhere else. I don't want to watch a player make $5Mish a year and only score 10 goals...if he's lucky. No, I don't defend Abby, he gets paid to do other things as well. A bit too much and too long, but again, no way Holland opts to leave Abby unprotected. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

No one is suggesting leaving Abdelkader unprotected. Abby will absolutely 100% be protected, whether he should be or not. Nyquist is in that same category. Zero chance a player like Nyquist or Tatar is left unprotected for Vegas to take in the expansion draft...

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Then I guess it's Helm then...guess we'll see soon enough who gets taken.

[kliq 3,755]

6 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Top 6 in minutes played is playing top 6. I said he's been playing top 6 all season long..

I said Hudler was never going to get 70 in his time here, and I was correct. I don't care if he got 100 on a different team. Let Nyquist go get his 60 on Calgary, he could get 300 on Calgary for all I care. He gets l paid to score goals, the last two seasons he's failed miserably and shows no sign of correcting that. System, coaching, whatever, then move along and score somewhere else. I don't want to watch a player make $5Mish a year and only score 10 goals...if he's lucky. No, I don't defend Abby, he gets paid to do other things as well. A bit too much and too long, but again, no way Holland opts to leave Abby unprotected. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

So what you are saying is that Hudler was capable of scoring more in a different system. I agree that Nyquist will not get 60 points here again if our system doesnt change, what I am proposing is since all of our player are struggling, that we change our system.

Answer me this.....If Nyquist is capable of scoring 60 points in another system, why wouldn't he be able to score 60 here if we changed our system?

Either way, you can scream about Nyquist being dumped until you are blue in the face, its not happening unless its in a trade for a player like Trouba/Fowler/Hamilton etc. and I believe the majority of Wings fans would agree with this.