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Richdg

Fixing this mess....

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There are 2 ways to go. Get aggressive, move some of the bad contracts any way you can. get a physical goal scorer and top pair D. The other way is to let Datsyuk ride off to Russia, make a few other trades, play a bunch of kids and do a traditional rebuild.

My money is on Holland trying to stand pat again and do neither.

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GMR, as Richdg mentioned, the three I was talking about are not free agents, therefore would have to be acquired via trade, which would mean it doesn't matter if they want to come here or not...

Also, if I were a kid from Michigan (Trouba), and I grew up idolizing the Red Wings, then yes, I would love to sign / be traded to Detroit...

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GMR, as Richdg mentioned, the three I was talking about are not free agents, therefore would have to be acquired via trade, which would mean it doesn't matter if they want to come here or not...

Also, if I were a kid from Michigan (Trouba), and I grew up idolizing the Red Wings, then yes, I would love to sign / be traded to Detroit...

Yup. I think DD and trouba could be a great top pair for the next 10+ years.

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Issues:

Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Kronwall are getting old and declining.

Nyquist and Tatar, AKA "The Next Great Wings forwards" according to some people a couple years ago, are small one dimensional scoring wingers. Guys who can help you win but aren't going to carry a team.

The guys who might be able to carry the team aren't there yet and might never get to that point.

The defense is a mess and there's no help in the system.

Kronwall's been so worn down by injuries that he's no longer even arguably a #1.

Abdelkader has the contract of a core player, and he's not. Even if he gets to 20, that's the minimum acceptable number for a guy with that contract. Since the first 2 games, he's had 14 goals in 68 games, that's a goal every 4.86 games which is a 17 goal pace over a full season. That's not "great." Terrible contract that will only get worse as he ages.

Howard never got over his mental fragility and has been passed by Mrazek, making his contract an anchor.

Ericsson's injuries reduced his effectiveness, making his contract an anchor.

Holland either can't or won't make a trade or let any of the "home grown" talent leave even if it means overpaying them.

Decades of drafting relatively low have finally caught up with them.

Blashill is in over his head. The system is bad, the players aren't playing to their capability, "grinders" like Glendening aren't being nearly hard enough but still get a tn of ice time, his line combos are atrocious, AA has been one of their best players lately but Trashill won't play him more than 10 or 11 minutes a night, and he's been unable to make any effective in game adjustments.

The attitude of "we're doing everything to win the Cup" has changed to "we're doing everything we can to squeak into the playoffs and hope for the best."

In short, fixing this mess is going to take a long time. It will take longer unless Holland either starts being more decisive or moves upstairs and brings in a GM who will be decisive and aggressive.

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Of course there are some UFA's outt here that would be interesting. I would not go after guys over 30 though. Here are some that I would go after:

Stamkos 6-1/195 26 C The big fish this summer. Dream the dream......

Lucic 6-3/235 28 LH LW

Yandle 6-1/195 LH D 30

Schenn 6-2/230 RH D-maybe, just a maybe.....

Okposo 6-0/220 28 RH RW

Martin 6-3/205 LH LW 27

That is about it. Unless you can get a guy like Backes for 3 years which I would do. But most of those guys are going to push for long term deals. Signing a 31 years old to a 6 or 7 year deal is a bad idea IMHO........

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I don't think Blash is THE problem. His system doesn't work with the players we have. Get him the right players and it'll work like a charm. Sure it's easier to replace the coach but we already know we don't have the players to win in any system. Babcock couldn't even do it. So might as well keep Blashill and see what he can do with an actual NHL defensive corps.

I don't think Blash is THE problem. His system doesn't work with the players we have. Get him the right players and it'll work like a charm. Sure it's easier to replace the coach but we already know we don't have the players to win in any system. Babcock couldn't even do it. So might as well keep Blashill and see what he can do with an actual NHL defensive corps.

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If Stamkos is going to get $10 per year, letting the contracts of KFQ, Richards and Helm come off the books covers that. Howard will get traded as will Smith. $8M more right there. If Stamkos doesn't want to come here, then at least you still have a ton of cash to pursue other options. It's been proven since the deadline that Holland cannot stand pat this off season. All we can hope for this season is that they squeak into the playoffs, but I doubt it.

Holland needs to redefine his team this summer or needs to be fired.

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If Stamkos is going to get $10 per year, letting the contracts of KFQ, Richards and Helm come off the books covers that. Howard will get traded as will Smith. $8M more right there. If Stamkos doesn't want to come here, then at least you still have a ton of cash to pursue other options. It's been proven since the deadline that Holland cannot stand pat this off season. All we can hope for this season is that they squeak into the playoffs, but I doubt it.

Holland needs to redefine his team this summer or needs to be fired.

See, I'm torn here. I love the Wings, I've never seen them miss the playoffs and I want the streak to keep going. But what I'm afraid of is if we make the playoffs this year, Holland might get the idea that we don't need to make any chances and keep what he's got. It's just happened too much for me to not expect that. I just wonder if maybe (and I hate that I'm about to say this) if they miss the playoffs, maybe thats a wake up call to Holland.

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See, I'm torn here. I love the Wings, I've never seen them miss the playoffs and I want the streak to keep going. But what I'm afraid of is if we make the playoffs this year, Holland might get the idea that we don't need to make any chances and keep what he's got. It's just happened too much for me to not expect that. I just wonder if maybe (and I hate that I'm about to say this) if they miss the playoffs, maybe thats a wake up call to Holland.

Just to play devils advocate with everyone.

What makes you think anything will happen even if we don't make it? If anything I could see them make an excuse like "Oh it's a new coach he needs time, just give it a couple years and we will be a cup contender".

If you notice almost every year since we lost Lidstrom - the Wings have pursued free agency.

2012 - Suter/Parise

2013 - Weiss

2014 - Alfredsson

2015 - Green/Richards.

Hell if we don't make it this year Holland may think we've risked too much for absolutely nothing in return.

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We definitely need Stamkos, whatever the cost. I doubt we'll get him, but Holland can't afford to be stingy. Dump some players, sign Stamkos, and finagle a top 2 defenseman from another team (easier said than done) and we're a playoff team again.

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If Stamkos is going to get $10 per year, letting the contracts of KFQ, Richards and Helm come off the books covers that. Howard will get traded as will Smith. $8M more right there. If Stamkos doesn't want to come here, then at least you still have a ton of cash to pursue other options. It's been proven since the deadline that Holland cannot stand pat this off season. All we can hope for this season is that they squeak into the playoffs, but I doubt it.

Holland needs to redefine his team this summer or needs to be fired.

See, I'm torn here. I love the Wings, I've never seen them miss the playoffs and I want the streak to keep going. But what I'm afraid of is if we make the playoffs this year, Holland might get the idea that we don't need to make any chances and keep what he's got. It's just happened too much for me to not expect that. I just wonder if maybe (and I hate that I'm about to say this) if they miss the playoffs, maybe thats a wake up call to Holland.

Nothing that happens this year is likely to change what happens in the off-season.

People seem to think Holland has been deliberately trying to not improve the team. We don't want a wake-up call. That's desperation, and it almost always leads to making things worse. We need to continue to do exactly what we have been doing. Develop our kids, draft well, and try to make smart additions.

Most of what people want to see happen wouldn't actually make us any better. The secondary and lower line players that everyone hates are not our problem. We have an excess of prospects that could make some of those guys expendable, so there's a chance to make a move or two. But any move like that will not, by itself, really change anything. Might be exciting enough to appease some fans who just want to see something happen, at least until the team struggles. Then it will be right back to "Holland's done nothing".

The problem with the team is Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Kronwall and Green, maybe coaching, to lesser extent. But mostly D and Z. Nothing is likely to get substantially better, the team won't be "redefined", until Datsyuk and Zetterberg are no longer the leaders of the team. Considering the $13.6M cap hit they have, it's also unlikely that we'll be able to afford a replacement from outside the system. Almost no team in the league has secondary players making near that much. Dallas, mostly because they have Benn and Seguin very cheap right now. You don't get cheap players through trade or UFA unless it's someone at least mostly unproven.

One thing we have going is that we have a lot of cheap young kids, so if we can shed some salary, we might be able to make a good offer to Stamkos. But he's one player, and he'll have a lot of options if he hits UFA, so it's unreasonable to expect it to happen.

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Let's not hold our breath for Stamkos. Remember the sure fire signs of Parise and Suter anyone? How did that turn out? IMHO it is 99% certain that Stamkos will either resign with TB or go to Tor. Everyone else is less than 1%. So let's not spend to much time on the topic.

Yes Z and D are part of the problem which everyone including Holland should have seen coming. As players age they 1. get hurt more often, 2. Take longer to recover, and 3. Don't produce as much. Datsyuk has 1 year left and he is gone. I would not bring him back even if he wants to return. Time to turn the page and move on. The contracts of Z, Kronwall, and Ericsson are much harder to deal with. IIRC Kornwall's contract does change this summer from a full no trade to a modified no trade-name 10 teams thing.

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I don't think anyone is truly expecting Stamkos to sign here. Major pipe dream. Same pipe dream that has us trading for or signing any of the big names mentioned in this thread. Fact is, whether we make the playoffs or not this season, the team we have right now, will likely be very similar to the team that we will start next season, with the exception of Richards and maybe Quincey. As much as I would love to trade for Kreider, Reichel or Trouba or sign Stamkos, Backes or Okposo, it's just not going to happen. I'm hopeful that the full time additions of Athanasiou and Mantha will make this team better, along with Larkin having a full year under his belt, and hopefully Nyquist and Tatar getting out of whatever slump? they're in now, and Datsyuk and Zetterberg not declining too much more in the next year... I think we'll be fine up front next year but the defense definitely needs some work. Work that I don't think can be done in one off-season, unless we were able to land that number one defenseman via trade... unfortunately I don't see that happening...

You wouldn't re-sign Datsyuk after this current contract? That's crazy to me... Even if it were to take on a lesser role at a major discount? I wouldn't want him to continue to be relied upon as a number one center in two years, but as a second or third line center at $3-5M, absolutely. He will definitely still be better than anything we have available for that position in two years from now. Even taking into account his regression since his knee injuries, he's still a threat every time he's on the ice...

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Let's not pretend that Holland has done nothing, because that isn't true. he has. He hasn't done enough yet to make an impact. he did sign Green and Richards last year in an attempt to improve the team. Didn't work but he did try. So yes I do expect a couple of moves to happen. What those moves are is the only question. I do expect at least 2 players to be brought in from the outside.

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As for Datsyuk, what benefit is there to bringing him back? We are not going to win the SC or even be a real contender with him. He is going to get 5+ million just like all of our past greats did to play. Bringing him back would only be taking more minutes away from talented young prospects that need to play so we know what we have.

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Lol Datsyuk is still the best player on the team. These young guys can learn a lot from him. He plays for the Wings as long as he wants to imo. As soon as he feels he's in the way of a better player I'm sure he'll know to retire but right now he's our best center and will most likely be our best next year and probably the year after if he wants to stay. People aren't noticing he's been playing phenomenal this stretch? His leadership by the way he plays is inspiring to the team trust me. These young guys see Dats taking slap shots and being physical for the sake of the team it makes them go out there and give what he does. His lead by example style of leadership is legendary and works wonders

Edited by joesuffP

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You don't tell Pavel Datsyuk that you don't want him.

I don't know why he'd want to come back though. He can go to Russia, play a year or two there and be close to his family if he leaves. If he comes back, he'll be on a team hoping to make the playoffs with no real chance at winning the Cup.

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