kliq 3,755 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) You land Stamkos by making a hockey trade, trade whatever you have to. A combo of Tatar, Gus, Mantha, Picks, Prospects. Whatever you have to do. Larkin and Stamkos going forward would be scary. Mrazek in net. Shore up the D and it would be unstoppable I think. Stamkos is scheduled to be a UFA. Edited March 21, 2016 by kliq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Buppy 1,720 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 You land Stamkos by making a hockey trade, trade whatever you have to. A combo of Tatar, Gus, Mantha, Picks, Prospects. Whatever you have to do. Larkin and Stamkos going forward would be scary. Mrazek in net. Shore up the D and it would be unstoppable I think. Stamkos has missed the playoffs 4 times, and swept in the first round once. The two decent runs TB has had he was 5th and tied for 3rd in team scoring. He's a good player, and worth pursuing, but not to the point of giving up anything ridiculous for him. Conditional pick or some prospect who's not going to get a chance here is all his rights are worth. Where my math freaks at ? Datsyuk regular season stats: 5G/60 AG/60 5P/60 AP/60 T5G/60 TAG/60 AGM A5G/Y AAG/Y A5P/Y AAP/Y 05-06 to 11-12 0.96 1.11 2.59 3.32 3.48 4.61 7.71 15.86 26.86 42.57 80.14 11-12 to 15-16 0.67 1.06 1.87 2.76 2.62 4.02 18.25 8.25 18.50 24.25 48.00 This season 0.42 0.86 1.40 2.21 2.23 3.45 16 6 16 20 41 Rel. last 4 69.79% 95.50% 72.20% 83.13% 75.29% 87.20% 236.57% 52.03% 68.88% 56.96% 59.89% Rel. this year 43.75% 77.48% 54.05% 66.57% 64.08% 74.84% 207.41% 37.84% 59.57% 46.98% 51.16% 5G/60-5P/60 = Individual 5v5 Goals/Points scored / 60 minutes AG/60-AP/60 = Individual Goals/Points scored / 60 minutes, all situations T5G/60-TAG/60 = Team 5v5/All situations Goals scored / 60 minutes AGM = average games missed, per year A5G/Y-A5P/Y = Average individual 5v5 Goals/Points per year AAG/Y-AAP/Y = Average individual Goals/Points per year, all situations Rel. last 4/Rel. this year = Performance the last 4 years/this year relative to performance from 05-06 to 11-12 The decline is there. He had a good year last year, but 4 of the last 5 years were down fairly significantly from where he was in his prime. Combined with the increase in injuries, it's a major difference. 1 Aethernum reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Stamkos has missed the playoffs 4 times, and swept in the first round once. The two decent runs TB has had he was 5th and tied for 3rd in team scoring. He's a good player, and worth pursuing, but not to the point of giving up anything ridiculous for him. Conditional pick or some prospect who's not going to get a chance here is all his rights are worth. This is a very valid point. I am on the record of saying that I want the Wings to pursue Stamkos, but the notion of signing him to a giant deal does scare me a bit because he has shown some signs of decline. But, to win in the NHL you have to take some risks, and this is one I am willing to take. We're not talking David Clarkson here (ie. stupid risk). Edited March 21, 2016 by kliq Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 Playing the young kids isn't what helps them develop. Playing them alongside established veterans who play responsible, smart, two-way hockey is what helps them develop. Putting them next to someone with the vision that Datsyuk has so they can see him in action is what makes them better. You want the burden of providing speed and energy and grit on the younger kids, to be sure, but they need people to learn from, as well. That's why you can't just play the Griffins squad at the NHL level and expect succes. So Zetterberg isn't the C for the next 4-5 years? Kronwall is going to get swallowed up and disappear? Ericsson is gone? Abby? Miller? Green? All are vets and still on the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aethernum 276 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 So Zetterberg isn't the C for the next 4-5 years? Kronwall is going to get swallowed up and disappear? Ericsson is gone? Abby? Miller? Green? All are vets and still on the team. Is my sarcasm detector broken, or...? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 Is my sarcasm detector broken, or...? No but I was being a smart a$$. But the point remains, we have plenty of veteran leadership without Datsyuk. That is something we still have a bunch of. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
13dangledangle 958 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) without Datsyuk. Im just not ready to see this yet Edited March 21, 2016 by 13dangledangle Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 You can't seriously still be advocating getting rid of Datsyuk are you? He is still the best player on the team at the age of 37 and leads the team in points per game virtually every season. He certainly won't decline that much in the next couple seasons that he won't be more than capable of filling the 3rd line center spot... When you're talking about veteran presence, and players that the kids can learn from, there aren't two better players than Pav and Hank. I want them around as long as possible for Larkin, Mantha and company to soak up as much as they can, while they can... Regardless, if Datsyuk does want to sign a new contract (I think he will), he absolutely should. 4 canadian wings fan, TheXym, 13dangledangle and 1 other reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canadian wings fan 305 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 Pav gets the Lidstrom treatment. He can sign as many 1 year contracts for however much he wants until he decides he doesn't want to play in the NHL anymore. 5 Hockeymom1960, Aethernum, 13dangledangle and 2 others reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Getting rid of Datsyuk will help fix this mess. You know why? Because Teammu Pulkinnen needs 19 minutes a night. He's our next Datsyuk. Bank on it. Ok seriously though. People have mentioned we need to give kids more ice time to make them better. What I see is that our young centers- Sheahan and Larkin already get a significant amount of ice time (about 15-16 minutes). The only one that likely needs more ice time would be AA (he only gets 9+ minutes). If you're looking at Datsyuk - you're comparing him to our centers, not Wingers. Our young future centers are Larkin, AA, Sheahan. 2 out of 3 of them already get good ice time. Datsyuk isn't the reason why AA doesn't get ice time. That would be Richards and Glendening. If you're concerned about why Jurco, Pulk, etc young WINGERS don't get ice time. Then refer to the veteran wingers. Who would those be? Abby? I guess Nyquist and Tatar now...?? So are veterans really the issue? Or maybe it's that we have too many young kids? Is it because we've hung on to too much? Maybe we need to trade? Idk I'm just blabbering now. Edited March 21, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
joesuffP 1,746 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 Imagine Pavs finishing his contract here and signing 1 year deals with Chicago or someone 1 canadian wings fan reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 Great news, we have just fixed this mess... and we didn't even have to push Datsyuk out the door. The Red Wings have re-signed Eric Tangradi to a two-year contract extension. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canadian wings fan 305 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 Imagine Pavs finishing his contract here and signing 1 year deals with Chicago or someone wtf man hahahaha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Pav on one year deals is most likely what will happen....ESPECIALLY if Holland "fixes this mess" by signing an elite top line player and a legit top defender. No doubt, with someone like Stamkos (I know, unlikely) here, it would not only take a lot of pressure off Dats, along with less icetime taking pressure off his body, it would excite him (I believe) a bit more to stay a season or two more.... funny, someone mentioned in this or a different thread the fact that we all thought without a doubt that Suter and Parise (not as much) were dead to rights were coming here. Well, now fast forward to now, its ironic, we STILL need those two players (not the names but the type of player.) I think if Holland landed Stamkos and Yandle it would go a LONG way to fixing this mess...of course that would push out more than just KFQ...we'd need some hard cuts. Edited March 21, 2016 by LeftWinger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aethernum 276 Report post Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) No but I was being a smart a$$. But the point remains, we have plenty of veteran leadership without Datsyuk. That is something we still have a bunch of. Ah, I see what you meant now. I suppose for me it's not so much having any ol' veterans around so much as it is having people with Datsyuk's vision to serve as an example for the kids. Nobody else on the team (or, perhaps, in the league) sees the game as well as he does. Playing next to a guy that smart, responsible, and skilled will teach the young kids a lot about the game that they can't get from playing experience alone. I certainly don't want them learning how to play the game from Ericsson. Datsyuk isn't the reason why AA doesn't get ice time. That would be Richards and Glendening. If we want AA on the ice more often than Glendening, we need to find some better penalty killers. Or be on the PK less often. I'm curious as to what Glendening's 5v5 usage is compared to the other guys. I've already said my piece about Richards on another thread. Also, just to repeat: Luke Glendening is the best face-off man on the Detroit Red Wings roster (statistically). Edited March 22, 2016 by Aethernum 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted March 22, 2016 Great news, we have just fixed this mess... and we didn't even have to push Datsyuk out the door. The Red Wings have re-signed Eric Tangradi to a two-year contract extension. They're working on Cleary now. Dan wants one year at $950k, but Holland is pushing 3x$1.4 mil with a full NMC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted March 22, 2016 They're working on Cleary now. Dan wants one year at $950k, but Holland is pushing 3x$1.4 mil with a full NMC Really.....in 2016. Haven't we gotten past Cleary jokes by now. 3 DatsyukianDekes, e_prime and krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
e_prime 1,936 Report post Posted March 22, 2016 Really.....in 2016. Haven't we gotten past Cleary jokes by now. It's Miller. Clear(l)y we're moving on to Miller. 1 joesuffP reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) If we want AA on the ice more often than Glendening, we need to find some better penalty killers. Or be on the PK less often. I'm curious as to what Glendening's 5v5 usage is compared to the other guys. I've already said my piece about Richards on another thread. Also, just to repeat: Luke Glendening is the best face-off man on the Detroit Red Wings roster (statistically). Glendening wouldnt be needed as much if AA was groomed into this - Team has already somewhat started transitioning the future centers (Larkin and AA) into PKers. They had a test run this year and will likely get a lot more PK time next year especially if we can't resign Helm (who btw is our best PKer and can actually score too). Your best PKers are usually your best scorers. Look now at Kopitar, Toews and Bergeron (Nash, Zetterberg Datsyuk years ago). Edited March 22, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted March 22, 2016 Really.....in 2016. Haven't we gotten past Cleary jokes by now. Not until he's actually gone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,951 Report post Posted March 22, 2016 Fixing this mess will require hard trades and big UFA signing's... Trade Howard, Nyquist, Ericsson, Smith all at the draft for more picks. Let KFQ, Helm, Richards and possibly Miller all walk. Might have to trade Sproul and Jensen if they aren't in the plans. Sign Stamkos and Yandle and B/U goalie. Larkin - Stamkos - Abdelkader AA - Datsyuk - Mantha Tatar - Z - Jurco Miller (if re-signed) - Sheahan - Glenny Pulk Yandle - Dekeyser Kronwall - Green XO - Marchy Renouf Mrazek Enroth (or Hiller or maybe Coreau) note: Z on the 3rd is not to say he stinks, but he would be able to play less and conserve his back to prolong his career. Work for Yzerman, why not Hank? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted March 22, 2016 Just some more thoughts..... For the 2017/18 season the cap should be around 78.7 million. That year we have 43 spent already. Between now and then we have 13 RFA/UFA that we should resign or trade. Larkin, Mantha, AA, Tatar, Pulks, Jurco, Glendening, Dekeyser, Oullett, marchenko, Sproul, Mrazek, and Sheahan. We have about 35.7 million to resign those guys. That averages out to 2.75 million per player. Some of these guys will be making much more than that. Tatar, Larkin, Mantha, Dekeyser, and Mrazek may/could get a lot more than 2.75 million per year when they resign. But doing that is just standing pat, we haven't added anything yet. To trade/sign some outside talent is going to add a ton of salary. Which brings up the question, will we have the room to resign Datsyuk if he wants to come back? Not sure we will. Yes moving Howard down the road will free up some space. The point is things could get tight. if it comes down to bringing in a star player in the 27-30 age range at 7-8 million or resign 39 year old Datsyuk, which makes more sense? of course Holland needs to find and sign that player first.....LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) Just some more thoughts..... For the 2017/18 season the cap should be around 78.7 million. That year we have 43 spent already. Between now and then we have 13 RFA/UFA that we should resign or trade. Larkin, Mantha, AA, Tatar, Pulks, Jurco, Glendening, Dekeyser, Oullett, marchenko, Sproul, Mrazek, and Sheahan. We have about 35.7 million to resign those guys. That averages out to 2.75 million per player. Some of these guys will be making much more than that. Tatar, Larkin, Mantha, Dekeyser, and Mrazek may/could get a lot more than 2.75 million per year when they resign. But doing that is just standing pat, we haven't added anything yet. To trade/sign some outside talent is going to add a ton of salary. Which brings up the question, will we have the room to resign Datsyuk if he wants to come back? Not sure we will. Yes moving Howard down the road will free up some space. The point is things could get tight. if it comes down to bringing in a star player in the 27-30 age range at 7-8 million or resign 39 year old Datsyuk, which makes more sense? of course Holland needs to find and sign that player first.....LOL How about we don't resign some of those players? As to the highlighted point. We're going to have DK, Oullett, Marchenko, Sproul, Smith, Kronwall, Ericsson, Green as our defensemen?!?! WOW! Edited March 22, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted March 22, 2016 Fixing this mess will require hard trades and big UFA signing's... Trade Howard, Nyquist, Ericsson, Smith all at the draft for more picks. Let KFQ, Helm, Richards and possibly Miller all walk. Might have to trade Sproul and Jensen if they aren't in the plans. Sign Stamkos and Yandle and B/U goalie. Larkin - Stamkos - Abdelkader AA - Datsyuk - Mantha Tatar - Z - Jurco Miller (if re-signed) - Sheahan - Glenny Pulk Yandle - Dekeyser Kronwall - Green XO - Marchy Renouf Mrazek Enroth (or Hiller or maybe Coreau) note: Z on the 3rd is not to say he stinks, but he would be able to play less and conserve his back to prolong his career. Work for Yzerman, why not Hank? easier said than done Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kickazz 5,459 Report post Posted March 22, 2016 (edited) note: Z on the 3rd is not to say he stinks, but he would be able to play less and conserve his back to prolong his career. Work for Yzerman, why not Hank? The difference though is that Yzerman could barely play the 82 game schedule. Zetterberg can still play the entire 82 game schedule (more or less). Zetterberg, Nyquist and Abby are the only ones who played in every game this year. Everyone else has either gotten injured or gotten sick (they need to drink more orange juice) But you make a valid point in terms of him on third line. I think having Abby - Dats - Zet as third line in a couple years might not be a bad idea because the three of them have really good chemistry and they could easily be one of the best third lines in the NHL since the competition against them wouldn't be very good. That's assuming the kids can transition into the 1st and 2nd line role and take up responsibilities. But here's the catch. That would be a very expensive 3rd line. No go for a lot of fans. $15 mill cap hit lol. Edited March 22, 2016 by kickazz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
