Fixing this mess....

[Richdg 267]

I think I'll just conserve my energy for next season. I'm less than thrilled with the team, but there's no quick fix to the situation. The only real changes I see next year are letting Quincey (Ouellet on roster) and Richards go (UFA or someone from within for the fourth line - Nosek, possibly?). Depending on where the salary cap is, I could see them bringing Helm back into the fold. He's likely to be overpaid for his role on the team, though.

Outside of that, most of the changes need to come from within. Blame Holland, Blashill, Ferschweiler, whoever you want - it doesn't really make a difference, but it probably feels good to do it. I'd wager that at the end of the day, they're going to attribute missing the playoffs to the league being really tight, and the poor power play numbers. I don't think missing the playoffs is going to be the wake-up call some fans believe it could be. Am I upset? Yeah. Do I have ideas about what I'd prefer to see over what's going on now? Absolutely. Neither of those have any impact on what's going to happen with this team, and to be honest, I think we're in for some frustration for the next 2-3 seasons.

I tend to agree with you. What we as fans want to happen vs what will happen. Different as day and night.

[kliq 3,755]

I tend to agree with you. What we as fans want to happen vs what will happen. Different as day and night.

If GM's ran their clubs doing what the fans would want, this entire league would be like the Philadelphia Flyers.

[Richdg 267]

Most fans could run the Flyers better than what they have been. Although Hextal does seem to be turning the corner with that team. Same is true with the Islanders.

Agreed.

A significant portion of the fan base likes the combination of skill/physical play...And part of that physical play would include a handful of guys on the roster who are capable, and willing to drop the gloves.

I enjoy a good hockey fight as much as anyone. But I would rather have some Dmen that can clear out the crease and make the oher teams fowards pay when they go behind our net and in the corners. Same is true on the other end. Forwards that try to hit the other teams D behind the net and take up space in front of their net. Those are the types of things that win playoff series and Cups. Which is the goal after all. Or is it?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Howard isn't any better than your average backup. He just costs way more. He needs to be moved.

That average backup is probably going to be a big reason the Wings make the playoffs if they do since superstar Mrazek has turned to crap.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Trade for Yakupov, sign Stamkos or Lucic, sign Yandle, play the correct players in the top 6....fixed this mess. (on paper at least!)

[kickazz 5,459]

Trade who for yakupov?

[Richdg 267]

I don't understand the trade for yakapov thing. Why waste trade assets to pick up a small euro F that hasn't produced? if that is what we want just keep Nyquist, tatar, and Pulk. Same type of players 2 of 3 have already out produced yakapov.

As for Yandle I like him as a player but I don't like what it will take to sign him. 7 years and somewhere around 50 million. he turns 30 this summer. Do we want to add another big money contract for a guy until he is 37? That is older than Kronwall and Z now. How are they doing?

If I was going to add a Dman in UFA I would go after Schenn. He is 26 and a very good defensive Dman. No he isn't going to ring up 40+ points per year. But he will be much cheaper, contract over at 33 and would make out D better. He is a legit #4 dman that could be Kronwall's partner for the next few years. That pushes Ericsson and Green to the 3rd pair and then we just need 1 more Dman to pair with Dekeyser on the top pair.

[kliq 3,755]

I don't understand the trade for yakapov thing. Why waste trade assets to pick up a small euro F that hasn't produced? if that is what we want just keep Nyquist, tatar, and Pulk. Same type of players 2 of 3 have already out produced yakapov.

As for Yandle I like him as a player but I don't like what it will take to sign him. 7 years and somewhere around 50 million. he turns 30 this summer. Do we want to add another big money contract for a guy until he is 37? That is older than Kronwall and Z now. How are they doing?

If I was going to add a Dman in UFA I would go after Schenn. He is 26 and a very good defensive Dman. No he isn't going to ring up 40+ points per year. But he will be much cheaper, contract over at 33 and would make out D better. He is a legit #4 dman that could be Kronwall's partner for the next few years. That pushes Ericsson and Green to the 3rd pair and then we just need 1 more Dman to pair with Dekeyser on the top pair.

Have you watched Schenn play? I'll admit, I havent seen him play since he left Toronto, but when he was in TO, he was playing 6min a game and was basically their version of E.

[Richdg 267]

Have you watched Schenn play? I'll admit, I havent seen him play since he left Toronto, but when he was in TO, he was playing 6min a game and was basically their version of E.

he has played well for both Philly and now LAK. He is a better defender than E or KFQ, so that would be improvement.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree about not wanting to pay a boat load of money for Yandle, but I disagree that he will cost $7M. Somewhere around $6M I would guess, but that's still too much for another 2nd pairing defenseman. I also agree that Schenn isn't nearly as bad as a lot of people make him out to be. Ask any Leafs fan and they will tell you he's the worst defenseman ever... which is obviously a ridiculous statement, but what do you expect from a Leafs fan?... I believe Schenn is a very good shut down defenseman, that hits like a ton of bricks, blocks shots and can clear the crease. Unfortunately, I still wouldn't consider him much more than a 3rd pair guy, and that's not what this team needs. We need a number one and they simply aren't available in free agency. We need to either trade for a guy that has the potential to get there or draft and develop. I'd personally prefer the former, although management will likely opt for the latter...

[kliq 3,755]

he has played well for both Philly and now LAK. He is a better defender than E or KFQ, so that would be improvement.

Overpaying for another average defenseman via free agency is not something I want to do. We have enough #3, #4, #5 d-men. I would also say its debatable that he's better then Quincey.

[Richdg 267]

Overpaying for another average defenseman via free agency is not something I want to do. We have enough #3, #4, #5 d-men. I would also say its debatable that he's better then Quincey.

This is were we differ to some degree. We have a #2 Dman in Dekeyser. if healthy Kronwall is a #3 Dman. Everyone else on the team is a 3rd pair guy at best. That means we need a legit #1 and a real #4. Schenn would be the perfect #4 to pair with Kronwall. He is a rugged stay at home defender that is a RH shot to work with the offensive mined LH shooting Kronwall. Also KFQ is gone after the season. I hope he is........ Schenn is his replacement and a upgrade. Now we filled a hole and still have our tradeable assets to try and find a #1 which yes will be a challenge.

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

Speaking of cleaning up this mess...When does the mess that is Franzen officially end. Seems like years have gone by with his salary on the books and zero production.

[kliq 3,755]

This is were we differ to some degree. We have a #2 Dman in Dekeyser. if healthy Kronwall is a #3 Dman. Everyone else on the team is a 3rd pair guy at best. That means we need a legit #1 and a real #4. Schenn would be the perfect #4 to pair with Kronwall. He is a rugged stay at home defender that is a RH shot to work with the offensive mined LH shooting Kronwall. Also KFQ is gone after the season. I hope he is........ Schenn is his replacement and a upgrade. Now we filled a hole and still have our tradeable assets to try and find a #1 which yes will be a challenge.

I would agree DD is a #2 guy right now, and that Kronwall is a very good #3 guy.

I think E/Green are fine as #5 and #6 guys. E is not as bad as people make him out to be, but I dont love his cap hit. Either way, love him or hate him, he isn't going anywhere and this is why Schenn is not a good fit. Sure if you get rid of Smith, then E/Green can be your 5 and 6, but I'm not ready to get rid of Smith just yet for Schenn who would be a much higher cap hit.

What we need is exactly what krsmith17 said, a legit #1 d-man via trade. I like the idea of going for Trouba. You get him you have:

Trouba-DD

Kronwall-Smith

Green-E

Ouellet, Jensen, Sproul

I am not listing Marchenko because I have a feeling a trade with Winnipeg would involve Marchenko given that they wouldn't want to take E or Green's contracts, we wouldn't give them DD or Kronwall, so as a replacement for Trouba that leaves Marchenko or Smith. With Marchenko being the cheaper option and Smith being so close to being a UFA, Marchenko appears to be the logical choice.

[VM1138 1,921]

I don't know why people are concerned about overpaying. If there's no one available who can make us a contender for the next couple years overpay to at least improve. Dont just stand pat and wait for the absolute perfect moment. I'm more concerned with term than price.

Green is a good example. It was risky, it's questionable if it worked, but it's only for two more years. And if this year is an aberration with everyone sucking there's still a good chance he improves, too.

[sjr2012 439]

Speaking of cleaning up this mess...When does the mess that is Franzen officially end. Seems like years have gone by with his salary on the books and zero production.

ask after 2019-20

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Trade who for yakupov?

Don't know...but I am sure we have a few assets that could get it done.

[kliq 3,755]

Speaking of cleaning up this mess...When does the mess that is Franzen officially end. Seems like years have gone by with his salary on the books and zero production.

He's on LTIR which means he does NOT count against the cap. I think it is pretty safe to say he is never playing another game again. He couldnt last 2 games this year despite not taking any major shots to the head, just the basic wear and tear of a game two times gave him another concussion.

Baring a miraculous comeback, he is not an issue what so ever to this team

[Richdg 267]

I would agree DD is a #2 guy right now, and that Kronwall is a very good #3 guy.

I think E/Green are fine as #5 and #6 guys. E is not as bad as people make him out to be, but I dont love his cap hit. Either way, love him or hate him, he isn't going anywhere and this is why Schenn is not a good fit. Sure if you get rid of Smith, then E/Green can be your 5 and 6, but I'm not ready to get rid of Smith just yet for Schenn who would be a much higher cap hit.

What we need is exactly what krsmith17 said, a legit #1 d-man via trade. I like the idea of going for Trouba. You get him you have:

Trouba-DD

Kronwall-Smith

Green-E

Ouellet, Jensen, Sproul

I am not listing Marchenko because I have a feeling a trade with Winnipeg would involve Marchenko given that they wouldn't want to take E or Green's contracts, we wouldn't give them DD or Kronwall, so as a replacement for Trouba that leaves Marchenko or Smith. With Marchenko being the cheaper option and Smith being so close to being a UFA, Marchenko appears to be the logical choice.

I am done with Smith and it looks like Blashill is as well. Smith turns 28 soon and is a UFA after next season. Now is the time to move him in a deal to give him a fresh start. Schenn is 26-younger than Smith and KFQ. it still bugs me to now end that KFQ and Smith make a combined 7 million per year!!!!!!!!

As for the young guys yes some will have to be moved our we will lose them for nothing. None are waiver protected anymore. Keep 8 Dmen next season.

DD-YTBD #1

Kronwall-Schenn

Ericsson-Green

Oullett-Marchenko/Sproul/Jensen.

That frees up Smith, and 2 of the marcheko/Sproul/Jensen group for moves. Summer of 2017 we could then move Kronwall-not that I think it will happen-just could. Summer of 2018 Green is gone. At that point we are down to 1 bad contract on D in Ericsson.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

I think if Smith is moved, it'll be to FLA or BOS. In that case we could maybe get a bit more value for him in-division.

I honestly think E is tradeable with some salary retention. Need to free up 2 d spots, one for our future #1 and one for a kid. One spot is a given with KFQ leaving UFA, if you can swing E out of here before Smith, do it, but then again, Smith is more tradeable. It all depends on whether Holland makes trades at the draft to acquire someone. Even if we have the #15 pick, that in a package could entice a nice trade. Kenny has been reluctant to trade a 1st, but maybe this season he is more tempted to do so considering the way the season has gone. Playoffs or not, it still has been a failure of a season for the Red Wings standards. There's no guarantee he can even land a UFA this July, it may have to come via trade.

But if Holland does nothing and just re-signs KFQ and Helm, this team is doomed for years to come.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

He's on LTIR which means he does NOT count against the cap. I think it is pretty safe to say he is never playing another game again. He couldnt last 2 games this year despite not taking any major shots to the head, just the basic wear and tear of a game two times gave him another concussion.

Baring a miraculous comeback, he is not an issue what so ever to this team

It's more complicated than that. Whatever the cap hit a team is carrying on day 1, the team can get relif up to that point. The cap hits don't just disappear.

[Richdg 267]

I think if Smith is moved, it'll be to FLA or BOS. In that case we could maybe get a bit more value for him in-division.

I honestly think E is tradeable with some salary retention. Need to free up 2 d spots, one for our future #1 and one for a kid. One spot is a given with KFQ leaving UFA, if you can swing E out of here before Smith, do it, but then again, Smith is more tradeable. It all depends on whether Holland makes trades at the draft to acquire someone. Even if we have the #15 pick, that in a package could entice a nice trade. Kenny has been reluctant to trade a 1st, but maybe this season he is more tempted to do so considering the way the season has gone. Playoffs or not, it still has been a failure of a season for the Red Wings standards. There's no guarantee he can even land a UFA this July, it may have to come via trade.

But if Holland does nothing and just re-signs KFQ and Helm, this team is doomed for years to come.

That is what scares me and why I would like to see him retire. It looks like Holland is so loyal-blindly so to our current guys that he thinks resigning them and filling up our capo space is progress. I have nothing against Helm as a 4th line checking C. he is very good at that. But that is not how we use him. he is also getting to the point of making big money. With Glendening and others on the team there is 0 reason to bring him back. He should have been moved at the trade deadline. Now he will either resign for 6 years at 3.5+ million per year or walk for nothing. Not happy with either of those ideas.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Smith isn't going anywhere (nor should he) unless it's in a package for a top pairing defenseman. It's an absolute joke that our best possession driving defenseman is currently scratched, it's an even bigger joke that so many fans want him traded...

Also Helm should and likely will be the only UFA we re-sign. It will probably be at a bit more than most people would like to see, but I'm expecting (hoping) for somewhere around $2.25-2.75M.

[kickazz 5,459]

Smith isn't going anywhere (nor should he) unless it's in a package for a top pairing defenseman. It's an absolute joke that our best possession driving defenseman is currently scratched, it's an even bigger joke that so many fans want him traded...

Also Helm should and likely will be the only UFA we re-sign. It will probably be at a bit more than most people would like to see, but I'm expecting (hoping) for somewhere around $2.25-2.75M.

What worries me about Helm is that he's played as a second line winger , kills penalties and also puts in second line minutes. Which means he will likely demand a salary that's higher than we'd like. Not to mention he only has one less goal than his captain so...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

If Helm is back for 3 or 4 years at around $2.5 mil as a checking line player, ok. Anything more in terms of money, term, or role, it's bad.