Fixing this mess....

[kliq 3,755]

It's still money that has to be paid

Yes, but it doesn't effect us the fans a single bit.

[sjr2012 439]

i think all this talk about fixing right now is moot because noone should be thinking about anything until the season is over and anything can happen until a team is knock out management is not going to be thinking about changes

[frankgrimes 1,836]

That's the exact wrong approach , the regular season is a 82 games grind so it's something that should give every team enough time for evaluation and the myth of anything can happen is true for teams , who were considered SC contenders but underperformed during the season...I.e. sleeping giant's. Nobody in his right mind is going to consider this team a sleeping giant.

[kickazz 5,459]

Yes, but it doesn't effect us the fans a single bit.

Does it effect the Illitch family or is it a scratch on the wallet?

[Richdg 267]

Well.... With Datsyuk now leaving and we getting stuck with his 7.5 million cap hit and no way to really replace him and improve the team that does change my thoughts a ton. Go full on with youth and find out who can play. sit on our cash/cap space for another year maybe 2, then see where we are at and add.

[Wings_Toledo 233]

Unless the information I'm seeing is incorrect, the Wings would have about $18m in cap space if they're able to trade Datsyuk's contract. That would still give them the space to try to sign Stamkos, a defenseman like Yandle and re-sign 1 or 2 UFAs that they would want to keep. That's a big "IF," though.

[AtlantaHotWings 983]

Believe it when I see it....

Unless the information I'm seeing is incorrect, the Wings would have about $18m in cap space if they're able to trade Datsyuk's contract. That would still give them the space to try to sign Stamkos, a defenseman like Yandle and re-sign 1 or 2 UFAs that they would want to keep. That's a big "IF," though.

Believe it when I see it

[Dabura 12,207]

Unless the information I'm seeing is incorrect, the Wings would have about $18m in cap space if they're able to trade Datsyuk's contract. That would still give them the space to try to sign Stamkos, a defenseman like Yandle and re-sign 1 or 2 UFAs that they would want to keep. That's a big "IF," though.

There's a loophole that would, in theory, allow the Wings to free themselves of Datsyuk's cap hit. Ken Campbell explains:

Now if Datsyuk were to leave, the Red Wings would be on the hook for his $7.5 million cap hit. The reason for that is he signed a multi-year deal after the age of 35 and there is now way for the team to escape that hit to its cap.

But here’s how I was told it could unfold. The Red Wings would be able to trade Datsyuk to a team such as the Arizona Coyotes, a team that will be looking to get up to the salary floor next season. Even with the $4.9 million cap hit devoted to the injured Chris Pronger, the Coyotes have just over $28 million devoted to 10 players for next season. Should a team such as Arizona take on the Datsyuk contract, it could come to a mutual agreement to terminate the contract, which would allow a team in the KHL to sign him without violating its agreement with the NHL to not poach players under contract. However, the cap hit would not go away because the deal was signed after Datsyuk turned 35, allowing the Coyotes (or another team) to gain $7.5 million in cap space without having to pay him.

It’s imperative from the Red Wings perspective that Datsyuk informs them of his decision by July 1. If he stays and the Red Wings have him for another season, don’t be surprised if Red Wings GM Ken Holland extends him for one more season in 2017-18 at the same $7.5 million cap figure. The difference this time is that if Datsyuk decides not to come back, the Red Wings will not be on the hook for the cap hit because it’s only a one-year deal.

I wouldn't count on this happening. In all likelihood, we're stuck with the cap hit next season.

The other ~$10M in cap space could be freed up by simply not re-signing Helm ($2.125M), Richards ($3M), Quincey ($4.25M), Andersson ($815K). In all likelihood, though, at least one of these players will re-up with the Wings. Which is fine. (Provided it's Helm and he gets paid like a bottom-six winger who could spend an entire season on a line with Pavel Datsyuk and still fail to crack 35 points.)

[kliq 3,755]

There's a loophole that would, in theory, allow the Wings to free themselves of Datsyuk's cap hit. Ken Campbell explains:

I wouldn't count on this happening. In all likelihood, we're stuck with the cap hit next season.

The other ~$10M in cap space could be freed up by simply not re-signing Helm ($2.125M), Richards ($3M), Quincey ($4.25M), Andersson ($815K). In all likelihood, though, at least one of these players will re-up with the Wings. Which is fine. (Provided it's Helm and he gets paid like a bottom-six winger who could spend an entire season on a line with Pavel Datsyuk and still fail to crack 35 points.)

If this somehow leads us to signing Steven Stamkos, I dont see how this isnt anything but a good thing.

[Dabura 12,207]

If this somehow leads us to signing Steven Stamkos, I dont see how this isnt anything but a good thing.

Well, sure. I'm right there with you on that point. But, in all likelihood, Holland isn't able to move Datsyuk's contract and Stamkos signs elsewhere (whether it's Tampa or somewhere new).

[kliq 3,755]

Well, sure. I'm right there with you on that point. But, in all likelihood, Holland isn't able to move Datsyuk's contract and Stamkos signs elsewhere (whether it's Tampa or somewhere new).

Agreed. I wasn't saying it will, just that if it does this could all end up being a good thing.

[Dabura 12,207]

My two cents:

The Wings need to grow, change, reinvent. Datsyuk's early retirement represents an opportunity -- and an excuse -- to do so. The Powers That Be (mainly Ken Holland) must embrace it. If losing the magical crutch called Pavel Datsyuk means the team must crawl on the ground and learn to walk again, so be it. The team must be allowed to crawl so that it can learn to walk again and allowed to walk so that it can learn to fly again. The team must be allowed to struggle, must be allowed and encouraged to find a new, post-Euro Twins identity. The team must get younger, faster, harder to play against.

I firmly believe Larkin and Athanasiou are our new franchise centermen, that they can one day match the Euro Twins in greatness.

I believe Mantha can be a force as early as next season -- hell, as early as these playoffs.

I believe Svechnikov is going to be a beast, someone a bit like Tomas Holmstrom in that he'll allow us to get to our forechecking game (which, like many things, we're going to have to rebuild from the ground up) -- but owning better size and skill and and skating ability and an incredible shot.

I don't believe Tatar and Nyquist have taken a step back this year, I think -- and the numbers bear this out -- they've seen a reduction in ice time this season and that this alone can explain the drop in their production. Similarly, I don't think Jurco and Pulkkinen's "struggles" are indicative of what they truly have to offer.

All of this is to say, I think our head coach and/or general manager has/have to come to understand and appreciate what many fans already know: Joakim Andersson and Jonathan Ericsson are not The Answer. Limiting Athanasiou to five minutes of ice time in big games is profoundly foolish, especially with Datsyuk leaving in the summer and an enormous void opening up at the top of our depth chart. The priority this season and next season has to be transitioning to a younger core, not trying to squeeze one.more.playoff.berth. out of our veterans' butts.

By all means, try to land a Martin Hanzal, someone who can play against the opposition's best players, allowing Larkin and Athanasiou to develop their game against weaker matchups. But don't cage creativity. Don't stifle scoring ability. Don't preach defense for the sake of "learning how to defend real well." I don't even want our defensemen worrying about defending. I want a precise, relentless quick-strike transition game. I want the game to be played on the opposition's half of the ice, because we always have the puck and we're always forcing the other team to play without the puck and "defend real well."

Suggested Reading

1. Darryl Sutter:

“The big thing in today’s game is you have to be able forecheck and backcheck, and you have to have the puck. You can’t give the puck up. We don’t play in our zone, so there’s not much defending. I’ve coached in three decades now and this stuff where they said Marian had to play in Jacques’s system is a bunch of bull-crap. The game’s changed. They think there’s defending in today’s game. Nah, it’s how much you have the puck. Teams that play around in their own zone think they’re defending but they’re generally getting scored on or taking face-offs and they need a goalie to stand on his head if that’s the way they play.”

2. Dave Tippett:

"We had a player that was supposed to be a great, shut-down defenseman. He was supposedly the be-all, end-all of defensemen. But when you did a 10-game analysis of him, you found out he was defending all the time because he can’t move the puck.

"Then we had another guy, who supposedly couldn’t defend a lick. Well, he was defending only 20 percent of the time because he’s making good plays out of our end. He may not be the strongest defender, but he’s only doing it 20 percent of the time. So the equation works out better the other way. I ended up trading the other defenseman."

3. Ken Hitchcock and the Non-Stop Blues

4. Ken Hitchcock's Reliance on Rookies Is Paying Off

[Richdg 267]

My two cents:

The Wings need to grow, change, reinvent. Datsyuk's early retirement represents an opportunity -- and an excuse -- to do so. The Powers That Be (mainly Ken Holland) must embrace it. If losing the magical crutch called Pavel Datsyuk means the team must crawl on the ground and learn to walk again, so be it. The team must be allowed to crawl so that it can learn to walk again and allowed to walk so that it can learn to fly again. The team must be allowed to struggle, must be allowed and encouraged to find a new, post-Euro Twins identity. The team must get younger, faster, harder to play against.

I firmly believe Larkin and Athanasiou are our new franchise centermen, that they can one day match the Euro Twins in greatness.

I believe Mantha can be a force as early as next season -- hell, as early as these playoffs.

I believe Svechnikov is going to be a beast, someone a bit like Tomas Holmstrom in that he'll allow us to get to our forechecking game (which, like many things, we're going to have to rebuild from the ground up) -- but owning better size and skill and and skating ability and an incredible shot.

I don't believe Tatar and Nyquist have taken a step back this year, I think -- and the numbers bear this out -- they've seen a reduction in ice time this season and that this alone can explain the drop in their production. Similarly, I don't think Jurco and Pulkkinen's "struggles" are indicative of what they truly have to offer.

All of this is to say, I think our head coach and/or general manager has/have to come to understand and appreciate what many fans already know: Joakim Andersson and Jonathan Ericsson are not The Answer. Limiting Athanasiou to five minutes of ice time in big games is profoundly foolish, especially with Datsyuk leaving in the summer and an enormous void opening up at the top of our depth chart. The priority this season and next season has to be transitioning to a younger core, not trying to squeeze one.more.playoff.berth. out of our veterans' butts.

By all means, try to land a Martin Hanzal, someone who can play against the opposition's best players, allowing Larkin and Athanasiou to develop their game against weaker matchups. But don't cage creativity. Don't stifle scoring ability. Don't preach defense for the sake of "learning how to defend real well." I don't even want our defensemen worrying about defending. I want a precise, relentless quick-strike transition game. I want the game to be played on the opposition's half of the ice, because we always have the puck and we're always forcing the other team to play without the puck and "defend real well."

Suggested Reading

1. Darryl Sutter:

2. Dave Tippett:

3. Ken Hitchcock and the Non-Stop Blues

4. Ken Hitchcock's Reliance on Rookies Is Paying Off

Most of us agree with this. Some of us have been saying these types of things for a while. I don't care about the streak. I care about winning cups. We are not a cup contending team right now with or without Datsyuk. It is time for the RW's to butcher the sacred cows and rebuild. Whatever that takes.

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

@Dabura: Great post, appreciated!

The piece of Tippet on D-Men perfectly applies to the Wings and Smith vs Ericsson, just to mention. But hey, let's keep sitting Smith because we signed him to the cheaper deal... *sigh*

Holland needs to go, there is no doubt about it. This franchise won't turn before we get a better GM. Should've never let Jim Nill go...

I already caught myself wishing for Holland to totaly screw up the Datsyuk-situation, just because that might finally lead him out...

[Richdg 267]

@Dabura: Great post, appreciated!

The piece of Tippet on D-Men perfectly applies to the Wings and Smith vs Ericsson, just to mention. But hey, let's keep sitting Smith because we signed him to the cheaper deal... *sigh*

Holland needs to go, there is no doubt about it. This franchise won't turn before we get a better GM. Should've never let Jim Nill go...

I already caught myself wishing for Holland to totaly screw up the Datsyuk-situation, just because that might finally lead him out...

He already has. He isn't trading Datsyuk's contract. Now is it possible that Mr I steps in? Yes. Will he?

[lwing 68]

A little off topic, but can anyone see a player like Abby scoring 20 goals without Datsyuk? I love the guy (Abby), but I don't see it (though would love to be wrong). "Fixing this mess" is going to get very messy and very real.

[Richdg 267]

A little off topic, but can anyone see a player like Abby scoring 20 goals without Datsyuk? I love the guy (Abby), but I don't see it (though would love to be wrong). "Fixing this mess" is going to get very messy and very real.

Yes, which is why since Datsyuk's announcement I have moved into the go young crowd. No sense in spending money right now on old big name UFA's. Draft, make smart trades, and when possible a young ufa or dare I say a RFA.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

A little off topic, but can anyone see a player like Abby scoring 20 goals without Datsyuk? I love the guy (Abby), but I don't see it (though would love to be wrong). "Fixing this mess" is going to get very messy and very real.

I'm pretty sure Abby hasn't played very much with Datsyuk this year. Datsyuk's been with Helm and Richards or Mantha. So...yes

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Unless the information I'm seeing is incorrect, the Wings would have about $18m in cap space if they're able to trade Datsyuk's contract. That would still give them the space to try to sign Stamkos, a defenseman like Yandle and re-sign 1 or 2 UFAs that they would want to keep. That's a big "IF," though.

According to Capfriendly.com ( https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/redwings ) they already have a projected $17.1M WITH Pav's $7.5M on the books, if they could shed it, they will have $22.6M (with the $2M penalty) available. Trade Smith and Howard, we're talking $8M more...not sure if Franzen's LTIR is reflected in the original $17.1M, but if not, obviously that's $3.9M more! Even if they don't trade Smith and Howard, $22.6M is plenty to re-sign our RFA's and still pursue (hard) a scorer and top D.

Edited April 11, 2016 by LeftWinger

[Richdg 267]

According to Capfriendly.com ( https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/redwings ) they already have a projected $17.1M WITH Pav's $7.5M on the books, if they could shed it, they will have $22.6M (with the $2M penalty) available. Trade Smith and Howard, we're talking $8M more...not sure if Franzen's LTIR is reflected in the original $17.1M, but if not, obviously that's $3.9M more! Even if they don't trade Smith and Howard, $22.6M is plenty to re-sign our RFA's and still pursue (hard) a scorer and top D.

That is before we resign any RFA's. Mrazek will get 3, Dekeyser will get 5-6, Sheahan around 2. Now if I raad this right Franzen hasn't been removed from their numbers. I did the mnath last week and figured we would ahve about 15 million under the cap after the RFA's are resigned, Franzen to LTIR, and some guys are moved out in trade. But its not enough to improve the team AND replace Datsyuk. Holland has to trade the contract-which he has said he will not do.

[Richdg 267]

That is before we resign any RFA's. Mrazek will get 3, Dekeyser will get 5-6, Sheahan around 2. Now if I raad this right Franzen hasn't been removed from their numbers. I did the mnath last week and figured we would ahve about 15 million under the cap after the RFA's are resigned, Franzen to LTIR, and some guys are moved out in trade. But its not enough to improve the team AND replace Datsyuk. Holland has to trade the contract-which he has said he will not do.

Let's be clear about this. Current cap: 71.4 million. NHLPA 5% minimum increase comes to 74.97 million for next season. RW's have 57.7 spent already for next season. Leaves us with 17.27 in cap space. Mrazek-3, Dekeyeser 5.5, Sheahan 2, Pulk 1, Marchenko 1.5 have to be resigned. That leaves 4.7 to spend. LTIR Franzen frees up another 4. So we have 8.7 million to work with. Now there are guys that could be moved via trade: Smith, Nyquist, tatar, etc..... That would free up another 9-10 million before salaries come back to us.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

If Holland doesn't trade that contract PLUS gives DD $5.5M, he really needs to be fired!

[Richdg 267]

If Holland doesn't trade that contract PLUS gives DD $5.5M, he really needs to be fired!

We will be lucky to get DD signed at 5.5 million per year. It could be 6+.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

I don't see it. I really don't.

$4.5M tops. If he gets more, OMG, we;re doomed for any sort of upgrade up front or on D...

This mess gets a boost by (if Pav leaves) trading Pav (contract,) Howard, Smith...and along with Franzen on LTIR. Trade Pulk and Jurco for picks (they aren't being played, might as well.)

Go HARD for Stamkos and Yandle.....re-sign Mrazek ($3.5M) DD ($4.5M) Sheahan ($2M) Marchy ($1.5M) Helm ($3.5M)

Go from there. If those players are traded (you don't even need to trade both Pulk and Jurco, just one will do) and the cap is $74M, we are sitting pretty to offer Stamkos $8.5M-$10M and Yandle $6M....it can be done, if Holland is seriously wanting to upgrade his team for the better. If he keeps the contract, doesn't trade Jimmy and Smith, this team is doomed to the same result year after year.

Just imagine, by trading the contract, Howard, Smith, one of Jurco/Pulk and Franzen on LTIR, we will have $36M+ in cap space.

Edited April 11, 2016 by LeftWinger

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

We're already doomed because E gets 4.5 and therefore Q should get 5.0-5.5 and Danny 6.0-6.5...or something like that.