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Richdg

Fixing this mess....

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Yes it was. Bowman moved Sharp to free up cap to keep his core intact. he was being aggressive and forward thinking. Not sitting on his rump out of loyalty and hoping for better results. Cap dumps are often very strategic acts to maintain what a team has or improve a team.

In this case, he didn't improve his team. Both pieces were shipped out of Chicago.

http://www.hngn.com/articles/171931/20160121/nhl-chicago-blackhawks-bail-patrick-sharp-trade-ryan-garbutt-anaheim-ducks.htm

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Sharp and Zetterberg is an apples to oranges comparison. Beyond what theyean to the team, Sharp doesn't have a big recapture penalty if he retires early, and if the Wings traded Zetterberg, why would he do them a favor by playing the LTIR game when he decides to hang them up?

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In this case, he didn't improve his team. Both pieces were shipped out of Chicago.

http://www.hngn.com/articles/171931/20160121/nhl-chicago-blackhawks-bail-patrick-sharp-trade-ryan-garbutt-anaheim-ducks.htm

The pieces don't matter, it was freeing up the money needed to resign his stars. So he shipped out a guy declining in production to do that. As we sit today we need at least 4 maybe 5 high end players and we don't ahve the money to do it. All of our money is tied up in old declinging vets that Holland will not move. Pick whatever names you want: Z, Kronwall, Ericsson, Howard, Green, etc....

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The pieces don't matter, it was freeing up the money needed to resign his stars. So he shipped out a guy declining in production to do that. As we sit today we need at least 4 maybe 5 high end players and we don't ahve the money to do it. All of our money is tied up in old declinging vets that Holland will not move. Pick whatever names you want: Z, Kronwall, Ericsson, Howard, Green, etc....

I'd say Green has been good. Especially considering EVERYONE's production was down, I'll excuse his subpar numbers because he still provided SOMETHING. I rarely found myself cursing at the TV and wishing Green were off the team. Moving forward I think we need to keep him, especially if they rebuild for a puck possession playing style. Imagine starting the whole right handed-shot search all over again. He's pretty essential at this point, assuming the team has to rebound soemwhat next season in the offense department. I can only assume something was seriously off kilter this year and won't be next year.

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If this Franchise really intends on getting back amongst the elite tire teams then they have got to make some big personnel changes in the off season. Being a realist that off season starts on Friday, no big comebacks happening with this series I'm afraid.

The biggest problem the Wings could face is maybe replacing Pav, not an easy task. I hear all the calls for Stamkos and if there's a chance maybe we should take it. But as a short term idea a certain A Radulov is a FA in the KHL.A 3 year contract offer to the 29 year old dynamic winger may just be the answer, this gives Larkin time to mature into the his projected top line role. Biggest question mark here is can Z continue as our #1 c if we miss out on Stamkos? Not sure he can.This could be the Wings biggest problem to solve. Jan Kovar would be a under the radar player to go after to help out here but I think he is tied up to his team for another couple of years, but I'm sure there could be a way around it.

The D , now there is something that really needs a overhaul. On their day all the D are very good but the issue has been the lack of consistent performances by all of them. The regular metal breakdown decision-making plays has been the norm for this defensive unit all season. Do we trade away a couple and let the UFAs walk too? The albatross contracts that King Kenny has handed out have made sorting this miss out almost unworkable. So I would let Q walk and see if we could get any takers for Ericsson and Smith. As much as Kronner has diegressed this year he isn't going anywhere. A much lesser role would help out Kronner now a 3rd pairing role with Marchenko would be ideal. I would go after Yandle to take Qs spot which is an upgrade in the puck moving department for us. Could we send Ericsson and Smith to the Jets for a shot at Trouba? One can dream I guess but abit of imaginative tinkering could see the D looking like this.

Yandle DeKeyser.

Trouba Green

Kronwall Marchenko

Ouellet.

Still in all reality well see maybe 3 players go 2 come up from GR and a Ufa come in. So 2016/17 season will be see 2015/16, not a good prospect eh!

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In this case, he didn't improve his team. Both pieces were shipped out of Chicago.

http://www.hngn.com/articles/171931/20160121/nhl-chicago-blackhawks-bail-patrick-sharp-trade-ryan-garbutt-anaheim-ducks.htm

I thought Sharp was moved because he was having an affair with Duncan Keith's wife. At least that was the rumor.

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I'd say Green has been good. Especially considering EVERYONE's production was down, I'll excuse his subpar numbers because he still provided SOMETHING. I rarely found myself cursing at the TV and wishing Green were off the team. Moving forward I think we need to keep him, especially if they rebuild for a puck possession playing style. Imagine starting the whole right handed-shot search all over again. He's pretty essential at this point, assuming the team has to rebound soemwhat next season in the offense department. I can only assume something was seriously off kilter this year and won't be next year.

True Green wasn't terrible. But is he a top pair guy? 2nd pair guy? Maybe 2nd pair. But he is weak defensively and costs 6 million per year. Now he only has 2 years left and should not be resigned. But we need the roster spots if we are going to bring in players. DD, Kronwall, Green, Ericsson, Smith, Marchenko, Oullett, Sproul and Jensen all have to be on the team next year or lost via waivers. That is 9 guys and we haven't brought in anyone yet. Not to mention we haven't improved yet which is the bigger issue.

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Despite Green not being great defensively, he's not even in the conversation for worst defensive player on the backend. I think his skills are the hardest for us to replace, not to mention you can't have 6 defensively responsible people AND have them all be talented offensively. I'm not saying we should re-sign him two years from now. That's two years from now. But we need to keep him next year. We all know all the kids won't be on the backend. Which means at least one of Marchenko, Sproul, or Oullette is a goner. Unless Sproul still has another year. Quincey is going to walk. If he was healthy scratched in the playoffs (not sure if he was injured in Game 3) that's an indicator the team doesn't want to re-sign him.

They've already tried to trade Smith a few times this season. I bet they find a buyer in the offseason. So I imagine at that point our defense looks like:

DeKeyser-Green

Kronwall-Ericsson

Marchenko-Oullette

Sproul

Now, we all agree that we still need additional help, and we all want Ericsson gone. Kronwall could always pull a surprise retirement, too, like Rafalski did. So let's assume that somehow they free up another spot for a new guy, whether it's trading Marchenko or Ericsson. It's doable and Green stays on the backend as we build a puck-moving defensive corps. The addition of Oullette helps in that regard, too.

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Its difficult to know what to do with the back end, but the fact that Quincey was scratched for game 4 just baffles me. Especially over Ericsson. Granted he had a good game 3 but even then, like, he's been a turnover machine and is far too soft on the puck.

I'd personally like to see us re-sign Quincey and get rid of Ericsson, but I know that's not going to happen. No one will take that contract, and we know he isn't going to get bought out either. Smith is far too inconsistent I feel, but has played well with Green this year, so they'll probably stay together.

I'd rather see Ouellet up here full time now and get consistent playing time, as last season I thought he was way better than Marchenko, and wondered if Alexei got more time and won that battle because he was right handed? Not to say Marchenko is bad, he's fine. but I don't see him wing more than a bottom pair player really at this point.

So something really needs to change tbh.....

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This was a smart savy move by Bowman. Sharp was 33 at the time and making 5.9 million per year. He just finished a season were his goal scoring dropped by 50% without missing any games and playing on the B hawks top line. Bowman also had to resign his younger stars. So he moved Sharp believing he was in decline. Well he was right. Sharpe went from 30+ goals with the hawks, to 17 goals to 16 goals this past season with the Stars. he is now 34. Now compare with say Z. Z is 2 years older and signed for 5 more years at a higher cap. His production has dropped at an equal rate as Sharp. Is there any chance at all the Holland will ever move Z? Even if it is the best thing for the team? That if the difference between a great GM trying to win and a average GM that is trying not to loose.

Nothing smart and savvy about being forced to dump cap. It was either dump someone with a high hit or try to fill like 10 spots for under a million each. I have no doubt that Holland (or any GM) would make the same choice in the same circumstance. Most of their highly paid players were obviously better/more important to the team. Their options were Sharp, Bickell, or Hossa. Sharp was arguably the worst of those choices, but maybe the only one they could move.

We've been building from the draft. It takes patience. I do believe we've been replacing our best players. I think Mrazek, Larkin, and Dekeyser are "core" worthy players. Maybe Mantha, Sverchnikov or AA step up to that level. Tatar and Nyquist are on the edge of that as well. I know people are down because we slumped in the second half, but we made the playoffs and we are deep into the rebuild currently. I think things look great for the future.

...

Yeah, there's definitely some things to be optimistic about. Though if the kids do step up to become the next Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom, I'd say luck would be a huge part of it.

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Hilarious how some people are still wanting to trade Smith... He's not nor should he be going anywhere, unless it's in a package to bring in that number one defenseman.

VM, I'd love a link to where the "Wings have tried to trade him a few times this season"...

I also love how you're so willing to move one of our best puck moving defenseman, and then say you want to keep Green on the back end to "build a puck moving defensive corps"...

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Hilarious how some people are still wanting to trade Smith... He's not nor should he be going anywhere, unless it's in a package to bring in that number one defenseman.

VM, I'd love a link to where the "Wings have tried to trade him a few times this season"...

I also love how you're so willing to move one of our best puck moving defenseman, and then say you want to keep Green on the back end to "build a puck moving defensive corps"...

They supposedly tried this year -

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/2/29/11132490/report-red-wings-apparently-using-defenseman-brendan-smith-as-trade-bait

Last year there was the Phaneuf for Smith + Weiss negotiation too if I remember correctly

Edited by kickazz

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I'd say Green has been good. Especially considering EVERYONE's production was down, I'll excuse his subpar numbers because he still provided SOMETHING. I rarely found myself cursing at the TV and wishing Green were off the team. Moving forward I think we need to keep him, especially if they rebuild for a puck possession playing style. Imagine starting the whole right handed-shot search all over again. He's pretty essential at this point, assuming the team has to rebound soemwhat next season in the offense department. I can only assume something was seriously off kilter this year and won't be next year.

Agreed. If anything, I think he should be used a little bit more. I still don't understand why he is on the second pp unit when he is our only dman who can get a puck on net.

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I'd be willing to bet that was all rumor and speculation, based on the previous trade deadline. I've also heard that during that whole Phaneuf debacle, the Leafs were the one that wanted Smith as part of the return if Weiss were to be included, but Holland turned it down (thankfully)...

Regardless, it would be beyond dumb for a team that lacks puck moving defensemen, to move arguably their best puck moving defenseman...

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Nothing smart and savvy about being forced to dump cap. It was either dump someone with a high hit or try to fill like 10 spots for under a million each. I have no doubt that Holland (or any GM) would make the same choice in the same circumstance. Most of their highly paid players were obviously better/more important to the team. Their options were Sharp, Bickell, or Hossa. Sharp was arguably the worst of those choices, but maybe the only one they could move.

Yeah, there's definitely some things to be optimistic about. Though if the kids do step up to become the next Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom, I'd say luck would be a huge part of it.

Wrong. Holland has proven he will not get rid of anyone that he likes no matter how old, unproductive, injured, or expensive they are. Holland got lucky that Franzen finally got hurt to the point that he can LTIR him and not have his cap hit. I have zero doubt that is Datsyuk changes his mind and stays and then wants to extend at 6.5+ million next summer Holland will do it. That is not doing what is best for the team in the short or long term. Come May 1 2017 anyone want to bet on Kornwall, Ericsson, Z, Green all still being here? I put the odds at 99% that they all are still RW's come next summer.

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I'd be willing to bet that was all rumor and speculation, based on the previous trade deadline. I've also heard that during that whole Phaneuf debacle, the Leafs were the one that wanted Smith as part of the return if Weiss were to be included, but Holland turned it down (thankfully)...

Regardless, it would be beyond dumb for a team that lacks puck moving defensemen, to move arguably their best puck moving defenseman...

Smith is terrible. He's been good this last game or two but he never stays good. And the only place he moves the puck to is the opponent's stick.

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I'd be willing to bet that was all rumor and speculation, based on the previous trade deadline. I've also heard that during that whole Phaneuf debacle, the Leafs were the one that wanted Smith as part of the return if Weiss were to be included, but Holland turned it down (thankfully)...

Regardless, it would be beyond dumb for a team that lacks puck moving defensemen, to move arguably their best puck moving defenseman...

I know you really like Smith, but he's in his 5th year here (3rd full year) and still gets scratched when healthy. I think it's reasonable to think that the organization doesn't view him as a permanent part of the D corps in the future.

I'm sure if we were to trade him it would be for a puck moving guy.

P.S. I think Green is definitely a better puck mover.

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Wrong. Holland has proven he will not get rid of anyone that he likes no matter how old, unproductive, injured, or expensive they are. Holland got lucky that Franzen finally got hurt to the point that he can LTIR him and not have his cap hit. I have zero doubt that is Datsyuk changes his mind and stays and then wants to extend at 6.5+ million next summer Holland will do it. That is not doing what is best for the team in the short or long term. Come May 1 2017 anyone want to bet on Kornwall, Ericsson, Z, Green all still being here? I put the odds at 99% that they all are still RW's come next summer.

In order to trade someone, they have to have value. Sharp has value. Hossa and Bickel do not. Franzen also has no trade value the way he has been dealing with concussions. Before the concussions, he was our leading goal scorer on the team. Should he have been traded then? Don't know. If you have someone who is making $3.9 million a season and is your leading goal scorer, thats a heck of a cap hit for a leading scorer on your team.

Holland would probably resign Dats to a $4-$5 million dollar deal, but not $6.5 considering his dropping production.

Must be nice to be able to tell the future. Can you tell me what the lotto numbers will be?

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I know you really like Smith, but he's in his 5th year here (3rd full year) and still gets scratched when healthy. I think it's reasonable to think that the organization doesn't view him as a permanent part of the D corps in the future.

I'm sure if we were to trade him it would be for a puck moving guy.

P.S. I think Green is definitely a better puck mover.

That is not a valid argument, because all advanced statistics tell you that Smith is one of, if not the, most beneficial defensemen we had this year. Apparently our organisation is run by people who simply cannot read or count..

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True Green wasn't terrible. But is he a top pair guy? 2nd pair guy? Maybe 2nd pair. But he is weak defensively and costs 6 million per year. Now he only has 2 years left and should not be resigned. But we need the roster spots if we are going to bring in players. DD, Kronwall, Green, Ericsson, Smith, Marchenko, Oullett, Sproul and Jensen all have to be on the team next year or lost via waivers. That is 9 guys and we haven't brought in anyone yet. Not to mention we haven't improved yet which is the bigger issue.

True Green is great. I use that stuff on my lawn all the time! Don't know where you're buying it, but my treatment doesn't cost me $6M a year. :ninja:

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Yes, I do really like Smith, everyone knows that, but the fact that some still don't is mind blowing to me. I know most have come around and realized the importance he is to this team. That was very evident by all the people wanting him in when he was a healthy scratch down the stretch and for the first two games of the playoffs...

He is one of our best defensemen many nights, and he brings a lot of elements that most of the other defensemen don't have to offer.

I wouldn't argue with anyone about who is a better puck mover, Smith or Green, because they are our two best, and it's not even close. However, Smith does lead all of our defensemen in most advanced stats, including Green...

Fact is, none of us know whether or not the organization view him as a permanent part of the defense corps in the future. But I do believe it would be a big mistake to let him go, unless like I said, it was in a package to bring in a bonifide number one defenseman...

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That is not a valid argument, because all advanced statistics tell you that Smith is one of, if not the, most beneficial defensemen we had this year. Apparently our organisation is run by people who simply cannot read or count..

What's not a valid argument? I wasn't arguing against Smith as a player, I like Smith for the most part and think he should have been in all series. But I was saying that, since he's still getting scratched this many years into his time with the Wings (he only played 63 games and I don't think he had injuries), I think it's probable that he's been in trade discussions. After all, to take on a defender we would have to let one go, E, K, Green have NTC or NMC, DK's not going, and the organization seems high on Marchenko and has talked for a long time about the importance of having Right handed guys. Quincey and Smith seem the most likely they would trade. I'm sure both have been pitched in offers - we've talked a lot about trying to upgrade

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