Jacksoni 418 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 What's the chances Kenny trys to trade up in the draft? He'll kick the tires but the asking price was to high or will he stump up this year. I think if he sees an opportunity, such as a team might inquire for this player and the Detroit pick for our pick, he might do it. He might also ask teams he knows from before that has the hots for a certain player that's above us in the draft. However, judging from his hour long exit interview I doubt he'll go out swinging to force a deal through. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 Is there a big enough difference between, say, 8 and 16 to be worth trading up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacksoni 418 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 Is there a big enough difference between, say, 8 and 16 to be worth trading up? At the 8th pick you could probably get Chchyrun, the defenseman that is being discussed lately in this thread. The scouting is rigorous these days, any clear stars are long gone at #16. Larkin (#15, 2014) was an aberration, he was certainly predicted as good but has shown he's a budding star. Would probably have gone top 5, 7 at most in the aftermath. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 At the 8th pick you could probably get Chchyrun, the defenseman that is being discussed lately in this thread. The scouting is rigorous these days, any clear stars are long gone at #16. Larkin (#15, 2014) was an aberration, he was certainly predicted as good but has shown he's a budding star. Would probably have gone top 5, 7 at most in the aftermath. The overall talent between 8 and 16 is little if any. But the positional talent changes. There are already GM's being quoted saying "there are no future #1 Dmen in this draft". There are 3 guys that could be #2's and they will move quickly. That is why I hope we draft a F and trade for 1-2 Dmen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 The overall talent between 8 and 16 is little if any. But the positional talent changes. There are already GM's being quoted saying "there are no future #1 Dmen in this draft". There are 3 guys that could be #2's and they will move quickly. That is why I hope we draft a F and trade for 1-2 Dmen. Agreed. The draft seems to be pretty deep on forwards, and unless there is a dman that happens to go unpicked by the time the Wings are up, they should draft the best man available rather than a dman for the sake of a need. Use the rest of the picks to fill needs. Of course this also means going hard for a guy like Trouba via trade is an absolute must. That would give us time to develop dmen. Give Russo a season in GR as the top guy, along with a couple of looks with the Wings to see what we have. I also think Hicketts has the makings of an NHL dman despite his size. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingedWheel91 271 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 At the 8th pick you could probably get Chchyrun, the defenseman that is being discussed lately in this thread. The scouting is rigorous these days, any clear stars are long gone at #16. Larkin (#15, 2014) was an aberration, he was certainly predicted as good but has shown he's a budding star. Would probably have gone top 5, 7 at most in the aftermath. You might not get Chychrun with the 5th pick... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frankgrimes 1,836 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 You might not get Chychrun with the 5th pick... That's exactly the problem the Oilers would be stupid beyond believe to not take this guy because I think Matthews, Laine and Puljujarvi will be gone at 4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Datsyukian Deke 127 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 No rules for UFA's. For RFA's there are some. As long as a term offers the minimum increase required-then it becomes a qualifying offer. Most of the rules cover if other teams offer your RFA's and what they have to pay to the current team. I am not aware of a max limit, just a minimum to protect your interests. But I am not a CBA guru or even a fan....... Ok, thanks for the reply. Given the fact that most interesting centers are RFAs, I'd say Kenny should at least drive up their prizes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacksoni 418 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 You might not get Chychrun with the 5th pick... Yes he might be gone before the 5th team picks, let alone 8th, however there is a chance he might be up for grabs. Depends on what the top pickers need. I agree that it's risky believing he'll be available at #8. As for pick 1-3, they are locked in and will go in order 1.Matthews 2.Laine 3.Puulujärvi. This holds true even if one were to break a leg or similar during the WC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 Ok, thanks for the reply. Given the fact that most interesting centers are RFAs, I'd say Kenny should at least drive up their prizes. Offer sheets don't happen because they don't work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Datsyukian Deke 127 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 Offer sheets don't happen because they don't work. Seriously? In basketball they happen...and they work. Not too often, but a certain share. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 Yes the risk is higher. If you look at most top 50 Dmen lists for the league, it is about a 50-50 split between 1st round picks and 2nd round picks. Its actually even less then that, I posted this a few months back. Ill post again due to the relevance: This was based on the top 20 D-man (based on total points). 1/20 drafted in top 5 2/20 drafted between 6-10 3/20 drafted between 11-15 1/20 drafted between 16-30 13/20 drafted out of the first round/not drafted 1) Erik Karlsson -15th overall 2) Brent Burns – 20th overall 3) Kris Letang – 62nd overall 4) John Klingberg – 131st overall 5) Roman Josi – 38th overall 6) P.K. Subban 43rd overall 7) Oliver Ekman-Larsson – 6th overall 8) Mark Giordano – undrafted 9) Tyson Barrie – 64th overall 10) Ryan Suter – 7th overall 11) Shea Weber – 49th overall 12) Drew Doughty 2nd overall 13) Dustin Byfuglien - 245th overall 14) Brent Seabrook – 14th overall 15) Duncan Keith – 54th overall 16) T.J. Brodie – 114th overall 17) Andrei Markov – 162nd overall 18) Keith Yandle – 105th overall 19) Shayne Gostisbehere – 78th overall 20) Kevin Shattenkirk – 14th overall 2 nyqvististhefuture and DatsyukianDekes reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 Its actually even less then that, I posted this a few months back. Ill post again due to the relevance: This was based on the top 20 D-man (based on total points). 1/20 drafted in top 5 2/20 drafted between 6-10 3/20 drafted between 11-15 1/20 drafted between 16-30 13/20 drafted out of the first round/not drafted 1) Erik Karlsson -15th overall 2) Brent Burns – 20th overall 3) Kris Letang – 62nd overall 4) John Klingberg – 131st overall 5) Roman Josi – 38th overall 6) P.K. Subban 43rd overall 7) Oliver Ekman-Larsson – 6th overall 8) Mark Giordano – undrafted 9) Tyson Barrie – 64th overall 10) Ryan Suter – 7th overall 11) Shea Weber – 49th overall 12) Drew Doughty 2nd overall 13) Dustin Byfuglien - 245th overall 14) Brent Seabrook – 14th overall 15) Duncan Keith – 54th overall 16) T.J. Brodie – 114th overall 17) Andrei Markov – 162nd overall 18) Keith Yandle – 105th overall 19) Shayne Gostisbehere – 78th overall 20) Kevin Shattenkirk – 14th overall More reason to trade back a few times if possible and try and add as many top 60 picks as we can ... Yes there's some nice guys we can add at 16th but if we can end up having 3-4 picks in the top 60 even better For example Toronto last season drafted a lot of players I had my eye on last season (whether they turn out to be pro's we'll find out) and this year they have a total of 12 ... I'd love to see us get as many picks as possible , just keep stacking them We get rid of Howard and Ericsson and fill up the lineup with kids and have some cap space heck get Bryan bickell off the Hawks and bury him in Grand Rapids for the Hawks 2 3rd rounders if possible and send them our 4th and a jake Patterson or some other similar prospect Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Datsyukian Deke 127 Report post Posted May 3, 2016 Reality is that we're gonna be stuck with Ericsson for the rest of his damn contract, because stupid Kenny will rather keep him than admit what he did with signing him to that deal... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DickieDunn 2,571 Report post Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) Seriously? In basketball they happen...and they work. Not too often, but a certain share.Is this the NBA?There has been one offer sheet that wasn't matched in the last 15 years or so, that was the stupid contract that the Oilers gave Penner and almost immediately regretted. Edited May 4, 2016 by DickieDunn Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted May 4, 2016 Reality is that we're gonna be stuck with Ericsson for the rest of his damn contract, because stupid Kenny will rather keep him than admit what he did with signing him to that deal... Most likely yes. We can't trade him so the only option is to buy him out. This is the best year to do that. Anyone want to bet if that happens? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted May 5, 2016 One of the things that comes up from time to time is: Building Through the Draft. Can a team do it? Well..... Here are the years and guys from each draft still on the team or have a legit chance to make the team for the past couple of years. 2001: 0 2002: Ericsson 2003: Howard 2004: 0 2005: Abby and Helm-soon to be gone.... 2006: 0 2007: Smith 2008: Nyquist 2009: Tatar 2010: Sheahan, Pulk, and Mrazek 2011: Jurco, Oullett, Sproul, Marchenko 2012: Frk, Paterson, Athanasiou 2013: Mantha, Natasiak, Bertuzzi 2014: larkin, Turgeon 2015: Svechnikov, Saarijarvi Yes the last couple of years still have chances to get deeper. The better thing to look at is 2001-2010. Ten drafts and only 10 players on the team-soon 9 after Helm leaves. Those are the years that should be the heart of the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HelmFan 84 Report post Posted May 5, 2016 (edited) 2003: Quincey 2004: Franzen Edited May 5, 2016 by HelmFan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted May 5, 2016 2003: Quincey 2004: Franzen Neither are here anymore. Yes KFQ could be resigned and Franzen will never play again. So yes 9 out of 10 years, maybe less if we make trades this summer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rivalred 630 Report post Posted May 6, 2016 Players will need to be moved to be aggressive go trade or FA; I do think Howard and Tatar and Nyquist + Amith are gone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted May 6, 2016 Some could be gone. But and this was my point, there are those that "want to build through the draft". Our history doesn't show that we can do that. Having 9 or 10 players on the team out of 10 drafts isn't going to get it done. At that rate it will take 23 years to even field a full roster. Yes I understand we traded away picks. It will be interesting to see over the next 5 years if we can look at the 2011-2020 decade and see a better than 1 per draft average. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kliq 3,755 Report post Posted May 6, 2016 Yes the last couple of years still have chances to get deeper. The better thing to look at is 2001-2010. Ten drafts and only 10 players on the team-soon 9 after Helm leaves. Those are the years that should be the heart of the team. I honestly dont know the answer, but I would be interested in seeing how many picks we had in those early drafts. If we traded alot of high end picks for rentals etc. that would be a huge factor in that stat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richdg 267 Report post Posted May 6, 2016 I honestly dont know the answer, but I would be interested in seeing how many picks we had in those early drafts. If we traded alot of high end picks for rentals etc. that would be a huge factor in that stat. We did trade away picks, not doubt about that and it did/does have an effect. That is why we need more data from the next 5 seasons to see if we can do better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935 Report post Posted May 6, 2016 (edited) One of the things that comes up from time to time is: Building Through the Draft. Can a team do it? Well..... Here are the years and guys from each draft still on the team or have a legit chance to make the team for the past couple of years. 2001: 0 2002: Ericsson2003: Howard 2004: 0 2005: Abby and Helm-soon to be gone....2006: 0 2007: Smith2008: Nyquist 2009: Tatar2010: Sheahan, Pulk, and Mrazek2011: Jurco, Oullett, Sproul, Marchenko2012: Frk, Paterson, Athanasiou2013: Mantha, Natasiak, Bertuzzi2014: larkin, Turgeon2015: Svechnikov, Saarijarvi Yes the last couple of years still have chances to get deeper. The better thing to look at is 2001-2010. Ten drafts and only 10 players on the team-soon 9 after Helm leaves. Those are the years that should be the heart of the team. The way I look at it is: the only players that played for the Wings this year that weren't drafted by the The Wings were Green, Richards, Miller, DK, and Glendening. So we have built our team from the draft. No team will be completely made of of their draft picks, but ours is pretty close. Cutting the numbers to get your 9 players from 01-10 makes no sense to me. First of all, 01-04 we didn't have a first round pick and weren't in the mindset of rebuilding from the draft since we were kickazz (shout out, haha) and were in the "win now" mentality. Also, that's before the salary cap so building from the draft was much less important. Also, that starts 16 years ago and will obviously skew the numbers because players like Hudler, Filpula, Kindl, Q?, Helm? will move on after that amount of time. I'm guessing next year we'll have 18 of 23 players drafted by the wings. maybe 16 without Helm and Howard, but then again maybe more if Sproul, or some 4th line Miller/Helm replacement makes it. (Not lines, just filling out roster) Abby-Larkin-Mantha Jurco-Shea-Tat Helm-AA-Z Pulkinen-Nyquist Marchenko-Oulette Ericsson-Smith Kronwall Mrazek Howard I'm not concerned about the number of players from the draft, though, it's the quality of players. I think when rebuilding from the draft it's whether you can put together the core talent because those are the guys that won't be traded or go to Free Agency (except in rare cases: Suter, Stamkos?) For me, that's probably 2 top Dmen, 3 elite scorer/playmakers, and a goalie. Once you get those pieces, you can pick up supporting player through free agency or by tradng some future picks for those supporting players. The defence is the big question for me in that equation. We got lucky with DK and we've done well at getting 2-3 pair guys (Q,E,Smith,March) but this is where the potential core is missing. Edited May 6, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nyqvististhefuture 1,002 Report post Posted May 6, 2016 We did trade away picks, not doubt about that and it did/does have an effect. That is why we need more data from the next 5 seasons to see if we can do better. We also drafted a lot of Europeans that never came over Remember having a lot of of hope in dick axelsson but I don't think he ever came to the ahl Goalie Daniel larsson didn't stick around long as well as Adam almqvist in the ahl , like wise Johan ryno Igor grigorenko was suppose to be good but got in a car crash and almost died and I'm sure that changed the player he was and could of been Mattias ritola didn't stick around too long , Jan Mursak .... Remember Christopher lofberg and Jesper samuelsson 2 swedes that were hit or miss picks from Anderson that obviously missed A lot of swedes and euro's who didn't pan out .... Guessing that's why we been drafting more NCAA players last few drafts 30 teams now ... Not as easy as it use to be to draft although I still got confidence in the scouts and as it was mentioned we traded a lot of picks back in the day Share this post Link to post Share on other sites