Mantha

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Argh I don't really enjoy bashing management, because I always will feel that they know better than we do, and yea I can live with Mantha being sent down, but what I can't is Andersson coming up AND being inserted into the lineup.

It's driving me nuts at the moment, like, is there a plan here? It's more than obvious something here has to change. Richards is just, never even close to a top 6 player, so why is he constantly on the PP, playing is situations where goals are generally scored. He was good, but now loses puck battles, and is slow. It's no wonder this team can't generate any kind of offence because they have no forecheck as by the time the old guys have skated down to retrieve the puck, its already going back the other way.

What bothers me is how AA plays only 5-8 minutes a night, and yet has looked at times one of our better forwards, has scored some good goals down the stretch too, yet consistently is labelled as bad defensively. What the f*** do they want, a team of selke trophy nominees? 2 players with big offensive potential - Pulkkinen - ok fine he hasn't been up to snuff, but he and Mantha, don't we think they ought to be given more chance instead of stuck in this system which seems to suck all the life out of our team's offensive ability.

It feels like they're just realising we don't have any high end talent anymore, so they're converting to a New Jersey type suffocating D kind of game whereby we don't need any all stars and can squeeze out games. Oh. Except we don't have the D (minus DK) and goaltending.

I'd really love to believe in this team, I really would. But I have to wonder who's driving the bus right now because it just doesn't seem to make that much sense. Give your kids a chance to play, let them learn, and if we miss the playoffs? So what.

I don't mind Richards on the PP. At least he is willing to shoot the damn puck instead of passing like everyone else. Wish Green would shoot more.

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[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Some people say he only scored two goals in his ten games. True, but he also hit a couple posts in that time frame as well. The fact our pp improved alone is reason to play him.

I guess some people forget that we have plenty of guys this year that went scoreless over a stretch of 10-15 games

But hey lets s*** on the talented kid and let the veterans off the hook cause it's the redwing way

[Buppy 1,720]

10 games in which he's looked very good. His advanced stats, as well as the ol' eye ball test has been very good. Sure, he's benefitted playing with Datsyuk, but like I said, he's created quite a few scoring chances on his own as well.

He hasn't proven anything? Has he proven that he doesn't belong or he isn't ready? Not at all in my opinion. Is Andersson more deserving of a spot in the lineup? The bottom line for me is that this could be the last opportunity for Mantha to play alongside Datsyuk and I think they should be taking full advantage of that...

Yeah, looked good to you. Not so good to the coach apparently. But that's not the point. Doesn't matter how good he's looked, or how bad. He hasn't played enough to be anything more than potential. You're acting like saying he's unproven is saying he sucks and will never do anything.

And my argument isn't whether or not he should be in the lineup. It's that we shouldn't consider him as "providing offfense". That we shouldn't expect him to be the answer to our offensive struggles.

If he does play, and he doesn't score much, you'll be right here saying we shouldn't have expected him to in the first place.

Some people say he only scored two goals in his ten games. True, but he also hit a couple posts in that time frame as well. The fact our pp improved alone is reason to play him.

I guess some people forget that we have plenty of guys this year that went scoreless over a stretch of 10-15 games

But hey lets s*** on the talented kid and let the veterans off the hook cause it's the redwing way

Thanks for proving my point from my earlier post.

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

He was on pace for about 17 18 goals .. Good for a rookie in his first season with this dysfunctional team.

[WingedWheel91 271]

I guess some people forget that we have plenty of guys this year that went scoreless over a stretch of 10-15 games

But hey lets s*** on the talented kid and let the veterans off the hook cause it's the redwing way

FWIW, Henrik Zetterberg has recorded 1 Goal and 8 Assists with a -18 rating in his past 24 Games.

People are worried about Datsyuk retiring? I think I'm more worried about Zetterberg not retiring for 5 years.

Edited April 11, 2016 by WingedWheel91

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

FWIW, Henrik Zetterberg has recorded 1 Goal and 8 Assists with a -18 rating in his past 24 Games.

People are worried about Datsyuk retiring? I think I'm more worried about Zetterberg not retiring for 5 years.

That's mind boggling

but then after benching and giving kids no minutes now go ease them in and learn next year we will be riding these kids and expecting them to produce which is bulls***

Next year could very well be chaos in Detroit unless mrazek steals the show

[Richdg 267]

2 goals in 10 games over the course of a season is 16 goals. How many current F's scored that many this year? 4. 16 goals would be tied for 5th with Datsyuk this year. For anyone that doesn't think he made a difference isn't watching the games. he did what he should do: get the loose pucks behind the net and along the boards, he scored goals in front of the net-which BTW isn't his game. Blashill used him wrong-mainly because he has no other choices. Mantha is a sniper and is great at driving the net-not camping in front of it. But that is another issue all together.

Now he wasn't playing so yes send him down and let him play. But stop with the stupid statements. he wasn't a spare part in the PO's last year. he played every game for the Griffins.

[joesuffP 1,746]

While eventually we want Mantha to be a Rick Nash Blake Wheeler type who uses his size and wins battles and is defensively sound. Can't expect management to be satisfied with him playing like Pulkinnen when he's got that skill set/ physicality... He'll learn and he's become better already in the AHL being a more well rounded player

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

A friend of mine told me Chris Nilan was saying in the radio how pavel datsyuk said he would want to play with mantha , anyone hear anything about this ??

[TomTestedTough 8]

All of us have our opinions and I am sure that we all feel strongly about what we think. I am of the Scotty B era and before. You need experience, and defense. Mantha brings neither. The cup is a muck it up and stay steady game. We are not the Hall of Fame Wings of old. We are a young and fast team that does not have a shut down defense. We need a goalie to get hot. Plain and simple.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Yeah, people always see the best in players they like.

But the simple fact is he hasn't proven anything. He is the definition of potential. He's played 10 games.

I will take potential over known commodities given the current state of the Red Wings. It's not like this is the 2008 team and the Wings are in some position to let the kids overripe. Do we need to see more of Brad Richards or Darren Helm in the top-six? Let Mantha get a chance in the playoffs. Who cares if he fails? Riding the veterans to an 8-11 mark down the stretch didn't exactly prove to be a great idea.

This is the perfect opportunity to get these guys playoff experience as they become bigger parts of the team going forward. This is an organization that has gotten out of the first round once in the past four years. Eventually they are going to have to alter their approach or they are going to turn people apathetic due to the mediocrity. I think we are already rapidly approaching that point or maybe there for a lot of fans.

[joesuffP 1,746]

The playoffs is where Darren Helm shines. I've been frustrated with Helm in the top six before but when he recognizes his role like he does in the playoffs and just plays high energy relentless puck pursuit he is a huge asset. Not to mention he's been one of our most productive forwards down the stretch

Helm, Abby and Glendening are very important parts of this team come playoff time. Sure we may lose a game where we only score 1 or less goals but that's the chess game of hockey. One teams gameplan will prevail and one will fail. I'm sure the Caps or Penguins will get shut out sometime during these playoffs but it's not because their offense sucks, it's because they got beat

[Nyquistfan14 489]

Hoping mantha scores 4 tonight just as a little FU to holland and Blashill

[LeftWinger 4,959]

I hope he comes back and scores 4 for the same reason....remember everytime Pulk went back to GR last season, he scored at will, but couldn't/can't do it here...I hope Mantha isn't the same.

[Richdg 267]

Now with the griffins playing tonight there is the chance they sent him down for 1 game to get some work. He hasn't played in over a week. That would be the optimist in me. But the realist then knocks the optimist over the head and realizes if that is what they were planning on doing, Holland wouldn't have said what he said.

But lets carry this thought out a bit. What do the RW's gain by playing Richards? How about Andersson? Green? Ericsson? I can go on. The answer is the same. The RW's gain nothing. If there is anyone that believes the RW's are a legit SC team, please pass whatever you are smoking! We are not. We will be lucky to win any games in the PO's and that is vs a injury plagued team. So then what is to be gained by playing Mantha or Jurco or Pulk or Smith? Well they gain experience and learn what playoff hockey is all about. They get to see it, feel it, got hurt by it and yes grow from it. You can't gain any of that by watching from the press box. yes each and everyone of those guys plus Larkin, AA, Tatar, Nyquist, Dekeyser could fall on the face and fail. But have we lost anything if that happens? No. If they all make it or fail we all learn from it. Player A failed so we can move him. Player B rose to the challenge so we keep him etc....

Edited April 12, 2016 by Richdg

[krsmith17 7,191]

Buppy, he looked really good to me because he was providing offense, he maybe didn't look so good to the coach because he wasn't / isn't a great two-way player. I don't see the need in having all 12 forwards in the lineup playing stellar defense. We have more than enough guys that play a great two-way game that we don't need to convert Mantha into a defensive stalwart. I want Mantha to continue playing his offensive game and line him up with two reliable forwards that can cover for him. I don't want him changing his game, in turn hurting his offensive game...

I'm not acting or suggesting you're saying he sucks or will never do anything. I'm not sure where that came from... I'm not sure if you're confusing me saying he's been providing offense with meaning that he's producing points. It's clear he hasn't put up a huge number of points but he absolutely did provide offense, and no matter how many times you say he hasn't, it won't make it true. He absolutely did.

Besides, the entire argument, for me anyway, is that we are scratching a player that is better now, and is / should be considered a much more important piece today and in the future, for a player (Andersson) that shouldn't even be in the NHL... Mantha should be playing with the Wings on this playoff run. Disagree if you like, but don't try to suggest that hasn't provided offense, because it simply isn't true...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

What has Andersson done to deserve one?

PK ability, wins faceoffs, isn't a defensive liability. In other words, hrs a fourth line player.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

PK ability, wins faceoffs, isn't a defensive liability. In other words, hrs a fourth line player.

this redwings roster is loaded with fourth line players as it is

Edited April 12, 2016 by nyqvististhefuture

[VM1138 1,921]

PK ability, wins faceoffs, isn't a defensive liability. In other words, hrs a fourth line player.

He's also slow as molasses in a series that is going to be high speed.

[Buppy 1,720]

Buppy, he looked really good to me because he was providing offense, he maybe didn't look so good to the coach because he wasn't / isn't a great two-way player. I don't see the need in having all 12 forwards in the lineup playing stellar defense. We have more than enough guys that play a great two-way game that we don't need to convert Mantha into a defensive stalwart. I want Mantha to continue playing his offensive game and line him up with two reliable forwards that can cover for him. I don't want him changing his game, in turn hurting his offensive game...

I'm not acting or suggesting you're saying he sucks or will never do anything. I'm not sure where that came from... I'm not sure if you're confusing me saying he's been providing offense with meaning that he's producing points. It's clear he hasn't put up a huge number of points but he absolutely did provide offense, and no matter how many times you say he hasn't, it won't make it true. He absolutely did.

Besides, the entire argument, for me anyway, is that we are scratching a player that is better now, and is / should be considered a much more important piece today and in the future, for a player (Andersson) that shouldn't even be in the NHL... Mantha should be playing with the Wings on this playoff run. Disagree if you like, but don't try to suggest that hasn't provided offense, because it simply isn't true...

Going in circles here.

Go back and read my posts. I never said he didn't provide offense in the games he played, nor that he wouldn't if he were to get back in the lineup, nor that he shouldn't be in the lineup. You chose to read all that negative connotation into the word "potential".

Again, doesn't matter how good or bad he's looked. He hasn't played enough. Maybe read that a couple times.

Are you saying he's proven that he's a 16g, 24p player, who can only score goals when he's left uncovered in the low slot on the PP. Almost in the top 200 in 5v5 GF60, and absolutely killer on the PP, but a net wash overall because of his 2nd-worst in the league defense? I didn't think so.

It's a two-way street. None of the bad stats are necessarily indicative of what would happen short-term, and almost certainly worse than his long-term outlook. Much the same can be said of the good stats. Means next to nothing short-term, and only confirms what we already knew long-term: he has potential.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

He's also slow as molasses in a series that is going to be high speed.

exactly the guy is not a fourth line player, a fourth liner is an energy guy who provide a physicality , energy and of course hits everything that moves. Anderson isn't that not even close but hey Mantha is big, young with a great shot son of course Amdersson has to play over him, unreal

[marcaractac 3,963]

PK ability, wins faceoffs, isn't a defensive liability. In other words, hrs a fourth line player.

Helm, Abby, Glenny, AA, Sheahan. These guys have been the backbone of a perfectly fine pk. These guys are all better at it than Andersson is. Andersson brings nothing to the table we don't already have far superior versions of. Meanwhile, Mantha gave our powerplay life while he played.

How much success do you think we'll have by icing all defensive players who can't score? Let me tell you: the answer is none.

This series is gonna be all about speed and talent. Andersson can't even skate.

Edited April 12, 2016 by marcaractac

[krsmith17 7,191]

Buppy, you never said he didn't provide offense in the games he played? Really? Either I'm terrible at comprehension or you're awful at explaining yourself... Your very first post in this thread... "Mantha hasn't done much of anything in the time he was in. 2g, 3p in 10 games, spending 81% of his ice-time with Datsyuk. To say he "provides offense" is a stretch. He has potential, but let's not act like he's been anything special."... That's where it started. Because to me, he has done / shown plenty in the time he was in, to garner a permanent spot for this playoff push / run. You pointed out his subpar stats and I responded saying that you cannot just look at his points to tell whether or not he has been a positive impact player. He absolutely has, and it is not just potential. He makes the team better right now, and he made the power-play much more dangerous while he was in.

So why send him down? Because his defense is subpar? Who gives a s***. Yeah, let's put Andersson in the lineup because he's such an amazing defensive player / penalty killer. He's not at all. He's viewed as a defensive player because he spends the entire game defending because he provides zero offense. If anyone thinks Andersson is a better option than Mantha or Jurco in any situation, I'm going to question them. Blashill is a pro head coach, and a good one at that, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't make bad, sometimes awful personnel decisions, because he does. I think he's an absolute moron for inserting Andersson in the lineup over Mantha, just as I do for him scratching Smith every single night for Ericsson and Marchenko. Would I be a better head coach? Hell no. Would those two changes make this team infinitely better? 100%

My whole point is that Mantha should be in the lineup on a consistent basis because he adds an element to this team, whereas Andersson adds absolutely nothing except a decent faceoff man, and a worse penalty killer than 4 or 5 other guys that we have in the lineup every night... If you agree, great, if not, I really don't know what else to say here...

[VM1138 1,921]

I'd hardly call 5 points in 10 games subpar for a kid who has played only ten games in the NHL.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree VM. When I said subpar, I meant it more like "subpar" when Buppy said he hasn't done much of anything in the time he was up...