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Mantha

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At 5v5 Mantha was on the ice for 4 goals for and 10 goals against. If you're giving up 2.5 goals for every 1 you score, it's not exciting. It's getting blown out. You need to do something better. He doesn't need to be a Selke candidate, but there's some evidence to suggest he needs to be better.

I don't think he's wholly responsible for all the goals against, but I don't think he's wholly responsible for all the goals for either. And I don't believe that right now his offense is good enough to outweigh his defense. At least not in a top line role.

The Wings lost in five games to Tampa Bay in the first round. Hard to get more blown out than that.

I'm not saying Mantha doesn't have room for improvement. But the Red Wings played Brad Richards, Darren Helm, Henrik Zetterberg and Justin Abdelkader in their top-six during the playoffs. I think Mantha's ability to put the puck in the net would have been a valuable asset, regardless of his defensive shortcomings.

I would rather watch Mantha "potentially fail" at this point more than running veterans into the ground and getting no results anyways. Time to let these young guys learn by playing more in the NHL.

Edited by GoWings1905

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The Wings lost in five games to Tampa Bay in the first round. Hard to get more blown out than that.

I'm not saying Mantha doesn't have room for improvement. But the Red Wings played Brad Richards, Darren Helm, Henrik Zetterberg and Justin Abdelkader in their top-six during the playoffs. I think Mantha's ability to put the puck in the net would have been a valuable asset, regardless of his defensive shortcomings.

I would rather watch Mantha "potentially fail" at this point than more running veterans into the ground and getting no results anyways. Time to let these young guys learn by playing more in the NHL.

I suppose that depends on your opinion of what his ability to the puck in the net currently is.

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At 5v5 Mantha was on the ice for 4 goals for and 10 goals against. If you're giving up 2.5 goals for every 1 you score, it's not exciting. It's getting blown out. You need to do something better. He doesn't need to be a Selke candidate, but there's some evidence to suggest he needs to be better.

I don't think he's wholly responsible for all the goals against, but I don't think he's wholly responsible for all the goals for either. And I don't believe that right now his offense is good enough to outweigh his defense. At least not in a top line role.

Who cares if he is on the ice for goals against? +\- is misleading. Did Mantha cause those goals against?

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Who cares if he is on the ice for goals against? +\- is misleading. Did Mantha cause those goals against?

That's the same thing as saying "who cares about how much better the PP was with Mantha in the lineup, was he responsible for all those PP goals - even though he only had 1?" Maybe our teams PP% those 10 games was also a "fluke".

There are so many reasons (we don't know) as to why he wasn't on the playoff roster. The Anderson comparison is profoundly dumb as they obviously weren't being utilized for the same thing. If Miller was healthy, Anderson wouldn't have been in the lineup - would we have complained then? I agree Blashill didn't really use Andersson on the PK as much as expected, but the PK is also the reason we lost the series - would Mantha have solved this problem?

There are a lot of things behind the scenes that we don't see - Attitude, Commitment, Off Ice Lifestyle, Locker Room to name a few - we don't know for sure but maybe management didn't feel he deserved it this year. It's not like we didn't use two other rookie forwards all season?

There's something up with this kid and a lot to be desired... I don't know if it was pure talent or size that allowed him to dominate his time in the Q (including his draft year where he led the league in goals) - but there's a reason management has been ultra tough with him. Benching/Demotions/Cuts are also ways of motivating most players and if it helps Mantha work harder to reach his potential, who are we to argue?

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That's the same thing as saying "who cares about how much better the PP was with Mantha in the lineup, was he responsible for all those PP goals - even though he only had 1?" Maybe our teams PP% those 10 games was also a "fluke".

There are so many reasons (we don't know) as to why he wasn't on the playoff roster. The Anderson comparison is profoundly dumb as they obviously weren't being utilized for the same thing. If Miller was healthy, Anderson wouldn't have been in the lineup - would we have complained then? I agree Blashill didn't really use Andersson on the PK as much as expected, but the PK is also the reason we lost the series - would Mantha have solved this problem?

There are a lot of things behind the scenes that we don't see - Attitude, Commitment, Off Ice Lifestyle, Locker Room to name a few - we don't know for sure but maybe management didn't feel he deserved it this year. It's not like we didn't use two other rookie forwards all season?

There's something up with this kid and a lot to be desired... I don't know if it was pure talent or size that allowed him to dominate his time in the Q (including his draft year where he led the league in goals) - but there's a reason management has been ultra tough with him. Benching/Demotions/Cuts are also ways of motivating most players and if it helps Mantha work harder to reach his potential, who are we to argue?

I think you mean the 1 for 26 PP was the reason. 1 more goal scored per game and who knows where thing send up.

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I think you mean the 1 for 26 PP was the reason. 1 more goal scored per game and who knows where thing send up.

You best hope Mantha lives up to the standards and hype you're creating around here. Come next year if he doesn't perform you already know fans will be all over criticizing him. And then ya'll get all worked up "Why is everyone criticizing him??? Hes just a rookie..." The hype train is what screwed Smith, Jurco and Pulkinen over in fans eyes and might even screw Mantha over at this rate.

Edited by kickazz

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I think you mean the 1 for 26 PP was the reason. 1 more goal scored per game and who knows where thing send up.

That was also a reason.

But Mantha didn't outperform (2 G 1 A) anyone else who would have necessarily had his opurtunity (1st line with Pav + PP time) in his 10 games. Blashill said that he also didn't believe the PP success in those 10 games was Manthas doing.

Again, it's Anthony Mantha - not Alex Ovechkin were talking about.

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That was also a reason.

But Mantha didn't outperform (2 G 1 A) anyone else who would have necessarily had his opurtunity (1st line with Pav + PP time) in his 10 games. Blashill said that he also didn't believe the PP success in those 10 games was Manthas doing.

Again, it's Anthony Mantha - not Alex Ovechkin were talking about.

The PP as a whole was much better when he was on it. Doesn't matter if he is the one scoring the goals or not.

That was also a reason.

But Mantha didn't outperform (2 G 1 A) anyone else who would have necessarily had his opurtunity (1st line with Pav + PP time) in his 10 games. Blashill said that he also didn't believe the PP success in those 10 games was Manthas doing.

Again, it's Anthony Mantha - not Alex Ovechkin were talking about.

Hype is always an issue. I have said many many times that prospects are just that until they do it. At some point in time they have to perform. Most reasonable fans understand that. Of course many of us become unreasonable........

That being said, Mantha has to make the team. Once on the team he needs to play and when he plays he has to perform. What would I consider a good rookie season for him? 18 goals and 35+ points. Anything above that is gravy. Anything below that then one can say he struggled. All of which is fair.

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That was also a reason.

But Mantha didn't outperform (2 G 1 A) anyone else who would have necessarily had his opurtunity (1st line with Pav + PP time) in his 10 games. Blashill said that he also didn't believe the PP success in those 10 games was Manthas doing.

Again, it's Anthony Mantha - not Alex Ovechkin were talking about.

Blash also said Joakim Andersson was up for insurance and PK and then he played every game and never on the PK.

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People mention Larkin and he hit the wall in the second half of the season

Fact is it will take time for Mantha and Larkin to learn the highest level and pace themselves

There is a big difference though. larkin has never played a full pro hockey season before this year. mantha has no played 2. That makes a huge difference.

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The second round of the PO's starts tonight for the Griffs. Let's see how Mantha and the other do. With AA back down I expect to see Mantha-AA-Tangradi on a line together. They played the first half of the season together and all did well.

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Be careful Rich, people may take that as you "over-hyping" Mantha...

F*** it! Mantha has impressed big time in these playoffs. He has been one of the most dangerous players on the ice in both series'.

I've also been very impressed with Bertuzzi and his knack for scoring clutch goals. I still stand by Sproul being one of our better defesnemen down there along with Russo. Ouellet hasn't stood out at all, and unfortunately aside from the game winner last night, Athanasiou has been lackluster at best...

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Mantha's final numbers for the year:

79 games played 27 goals 32 assists 59 points.

If he can put up those type of numbers at the NHL level we have a stud. He and Lil Bert carried the Griffs in the PO's.

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Hopefully Mantha has a big off season of training and comes out in training camp forcing them to put him on the wings roster next year.

Based on reports and box scores and seeming him play twice (once toward the beginning of the season and once at the end hah), He definitely seemed to be improving as the year went on?

Edited by amato

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Hopefully Mantha has a big off season of training and comes out in training camp forcing them to put him on the wings roster next year.

Based on reports and box scores and seeming him play twice (once toward the beginning of the season and once at the end hah), He definitely seemed to be improving as the year went on?

The thing is, we have to have all three of Mantha, Larkin, and Vech turn into quality players. If any of those 3 fail to develop and turn into 25+ goal guys we will become a bottom 10 team in the NHL. These guys are our future stars. We can't afford a miss with any of them right now.

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The thing is, we have to have all three of Mantha, Larkin, and Vech turn into quality players. If any of those 3 fail to develop and turn into 25+ goal guys we will become a bottom 10 team in the NHL. These guys are our future stars. We can't afford a miss with any of them right now.

I think that's overdramatic. If Mantha or Svech don't reach their potential we could have other guys exceed expectations (maybe Bertuzzi). Or Stamkos, Okoposo or someone else comes in and is a big part of the team. Also, Nyquist has 2 25+ goal seasons, Tatar has 1 - this could have been a down year. I think it was due to Blashill's dealing with them on the 3rd line.

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The thing is, we have to have all three of Mantha, Larkin, and Vech turn into quality players. If any of those 3 fail to develop and turn into 25+ goal guys we will become a bottom 10 team in the NHL. These guys are our future stars. We can't afford a miss with any of them right now.

That's kind of stating the obvious that our first round picks have to be "quality players" for our team to have a good future.

Saying we're doomed for bottom 1/3 of the league is just stupid though.

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Mantha's final numbers for the year:

79 games played 27 goals 32 assists 59 points.

If he can put up those type of numbers at the NHL level we have a stud. He and Lil Bert carried the Griffs in the PO's.

The last part of your statement is all that matters, and unfortunately makes the second sentence irrelevant.

I think Teemu Pulkinnen has taught us there is no direct correlation between offensive success in the AHL and offensive success in the NHL... In fact, Teemu Pulkinnen was a much better AHL player in 2015 (62 GP - 48 G - 31 A) than Mantha has been in 2016 (69 GP - 25 G - 31 A).

Yes Mantha is bigger, Yes Mantha is younger, Yes Mantha was drafted in the 1st Round, Yes Yes Yes - but until Mantha transforms his profession into an addiction, and until he turns good habits into a lifestyle - No, he probably won't be a stud at the NHL level.

I don't mean to consistently bash the kid, but like I said before - there's a reason Ken Holland and Jim Devallano have publicly criticized him, so I'm hoping it's used as motivation and he come's to camp in beast mode, and starts to light it up in 2016-17.

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Missing with any would be less than ideal for sure but it's not make it or break it.. There are a lot of other factors (free agent signings, trades, mrazeks development to name a few) and even if 2 of the 3 became stars, I think we'll be ok.

UFA? sure, when was the last time we signed a big name UFA that worked out? Hossa..... Trades? Again when was the last time we traded for a 25+ goal scorer?

Now bottom 10 team, that is what 10 fewer points per year? Not that far away.

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The last part of your statement is all that matters, and unfortunately makes the second sentence irrelevant.

I think Teemu Pulkinnen has taught us there is no direct correlation between offensive success in the AHL and offensive success in the NHL... In fact, Teemu Pulkinnen was a much better AHL player in 2015 (62 GP - 48 G - 31 A) than Mantha has been in 2016 (69 GP - 25 G - 31 A).

Yes Mantha is bigger, Yes Mantha is younger, Yes Mantha was drafted in the 1st Round, Yes Yes Yes - but until Mantha transforms his profession into an addiction, and until he turns good habits into a lifestyle - No, he probably won't be a stud at the NHL level.

I don't mean to consistently bash the kid, but like I said before - there's a reason Ken Holland and Jim Devallano have publicly criticized him, so I'm hoping it's used as motivation and he come's to camp in beast mode, and starts to light it up in 2016-17.

Not true at all. Pulk was a much better goal scorer in the AHL than Mantha is, that is true. But even at the AHL level Pulk was too small, too slow, and didn't play much D. Mantha is a much better all around player than Pulk is/was. Not saying either will make it/not make it. But they are very different players with very different abilities and talents.

That's kind of stating the obvious that our first round picks have to be "quality players" for our team to have a good future.

Saying we're doomed for bottom 1/3 of the league is just stupid though.

For us to finish 10th, which is where I said we could be headed means we have 11 fewer points this year. Col. was 10th overall with 82 points. 11 fewer than we had. But they only won 2 fewer games than we did 41-39. It doesn't take much for us to be down to that level. D and Z are done and N and T can't carry the team. That means we need the next wave to succeed or we will fall. Very simple.

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