Mantha

[kipwinger 8,524]

The last part of your statement is all that matters, and unfortunately makes the second sentence irrelevant.

I think Teemu Pulkinnen has taught us there is no direct correlation between offensive success in the AHL and offensive success in the NHL... In fact, Teemu Pulkinnen was a much better AHL player in 2015 (62 GP - 48 G - 31 A) than Mantha has been in 2016 (69 GP - 25 G - 31 A).

Yes Mantha is bigger, Yes Mantha is younger, Yes Mantha was drafted in the 1st Round, Yes Yes Yes - but until Mantha transforms his profession into an addiction, and until he turns good habits into a lifestyle - No, he probably won't be a stud at the NHL level.

I don't mean to consistently bash the kid, but like I said before - there's a reason Ken Holland and Jim Devallano have publicly criticized him, so I'm hoping it's used as motivation and he come's to camp in beast mode, and starts to light it up in 2016-17.

I agree with this assessment of Mantha going forward. The difference in talent at the NHL level is negligible for most players. What seperates them is commitment to doing all the little things that make talented people into top performers in their sport. There's an awesome quote from Connor McGregor on the topic:

"There's no talent here, this is hard work. This is an obsession. Talent does not exist, we are all equal as human beings. You could be anyone if you put in the time. You will reach the top and that's that. I'm not talented. I'm obsessed."

Thats something that all great performers have in common.

Edited May 18, 2016 by kipwinger

[amato 3,210]

UFA? sure, when was the last time we signed a big name UFA that worked out? Hossa..... Trades? Again when was the last time we traded for a 25+ goal scorer?

Now bottom 10 team, that is what 10 fewer points per year? Not that far away.

And 10 more points and we're first in the division.. Ahhh parity

But I'm not saying it's a foregone conclusion that we'll sign a big name UFA and/or make a splashy trade.. And it's unlikely, yes.. But just that there are other factors at play. And those were just a couple examples.

Obviously it's bad if any of your first round picks are busts, but my point was just that it wouldn't necessarily kill us to miss on one of three.

Edited May 18, 2016 by amato

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Mantha is already an NHL stud.

Uh, what?

[kickazz 5,459]

Uh, what?

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

UFA? sure, when was the last time we signed a big name UFA that worked out? Hossa..... Trades? Again when was the last time we traded for a 25+ goal scorer?

Now bottom 10 team, that is what 10 fewer points per year? Not that far away.

Green. Dekeyser may not have been a big name, but was in high demand. Alfredsson... I'm pretty sure I've had this debate with you, though...

[VM1138 1,921]

Mantha doesn't have to be a Z or Dasyuk replacement. I've always figured him for a Franzen replacement. Kind of a floater but a safe player and effective scorer.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Good point, and let's not kid ourselves, we missed a guy like Franzen this year big time. Imagine how well he would have contributed to offensive zone time, and as a result, total offense this year.

If Mantha becomes another Franzen I'll be thrilled.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Good point, and let's not kid ourselves, we missed a guy like Franzen this year big time. Imagine how well he would have contributed to offensive zone time, and as a result, total offense this year.

If Mantha becomes another Franzen I'll be thrilled.

And he will be hated by 75% of the fans. I can see all the Martha sucks comments now, and no, that wasn't autocorrect.

[VM1138 1,921]

The fan base would've hated Gordie Howe, too. He was a "floater" as well. In reality smooth skaters and strong positional players often look lazy because they're not flailing around to make things happen.

[kickazz 5,459]

^ Different era of hockey tho. But your point is good.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

I agree. I think Mantha will always be a controversial player. Partly because of his size - people will say all the "he doesn't use it.." stuff and he that should play to the power forward mould. I've seen him stand up for himself in scrums (as Franzen did) but Mantha is on the finesse side of things. It's a curse for big guys that they're given specific expectations because of their size.

Also, I don't think he'll ever be a complete player and I've read a lot of people casting off players completely because they lack certain facets of the game (Miller, Nyquist, Pulkkinen, Marchenko). We just need to put players in the right roles and pair them with the linemates that compensates for these aspects.

[kickazz 5,459]

As long as Mantha can score goals I could careless. We need goal scorers. Team needs some size. On paper he fills those needs. Just has to translate it into NHL and I'll be happy. Could care less about his ability to hit, play defense blah blah.

Edited May 19, 2016 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

Exactly. My fear is that this organization will try their hardest to turn this kid into a two way player. They should be putting him on a line with two defensively responsible forwards, and tell him to concentrate solely on offense. Do what you do best and score goals...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

If a guy scores 27 goals, that's one every three games. If all he brings is that, then he's not helping you win 2/3 of the time. I'd rather have a guy who scored 20 and does other things.

[kipwinger 8,524]

And I'd rather have either than none at all.

[kickazz 5,459]

If a guy scores 27 goals, that's one every three games. If all he brings is that, then he's not helping you win 2/3 of the time. I'd rather have a guy who scored 20 and does other things.

Well we have plenty of those guys. It seems to be working perfectly well for us. Except it's not.

Our offense lacks in goal scorers and has a weak overall offense and power play. These issues need to be addressed. Mantha won't be the complete answer. Not now. Not in his rookie year. But possibly in a couple of years he will be part of the answer.

Edited May 20, 2016 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

We have more than enough two way forwards, we need a pure goal scorer. And to suggest that if he's not scoring he wouldn't be providing anything is ridiculous...

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

If a guy scores 27 goals, that's one every three games. If all he brings is that, then he's not helping you win 2/3 of the time. I'd rather have a guy who scored 20 and does other things.

I assume "a guy" would also put up assists. Mantha certainly does - he has talied more assists than goals almost every recorded year he's played. So even if you're making the mistake of judging impact by stats alone, your premise is false.

Also, I think you took the meaning of my comment (or other's comments) to an extreme. I said that I don't think Mantha will be a "complete" player - not that scoring is all he brings. Just don't think he'll ever win any Selkes.

Edited May 20, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[joesuffP 1,746]

I want Mantha to become a Rick Nash, Blake Wheeler type. If he starts moving his feet at all times and skating like the wind like he can he can be a big factor on both ends of the ice. He doesn't have to be creaming people every game but be strong along the boards and getting back and covering a lot of ice, that also helps his offensive game. You don't forget how to shoot and make plays because you're responsible defensively

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I assume "a guy" would also put up assists. Mantha certainly does - he has talied more assists than goals almost every recorded year he's played. So even if you're making the mistake of judging impact by stats alone, your premise is false.

Also, I think you took the meaning of my comment (or other's comments) to an extreme. I said that I don't think Mantha will be a "complete" player - not that scoring is all he brings. Just don't think he'll ever win any Selkes.

The argument was that 30 goals and nothing else is good. That's false.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Who said they want him to bring "30 goals and nothing else"???

[Richdg 267]

On 4/11/2016 at 5:16 PM, nyqvististhefuture said:

A friend of mine told me Chris Nilan was saying in the radio how pavel datsyuk said he would want to play with mantha , anyone hear anything about this ??

hmmmm............

 

[kickazz 5,459]

10 minutes ago, Richdg said:

hmmmm............

 

LOL , you cannot honestly think using a Letsgowings.com post as your source will work.  

Edited December 24, 2016 by kickazz

[Richdg 267]

No Chris Nilan on TSN, who of course got it from our broadcasters. But hey only LGW approved sources count right.....

[kickazz 5,459]

43 minutes ago, Richdg said:

No Chris Nilan on TSN, who of course got it from our broadcasters. But hey only LGW approved sources count right.....

I do not see a source linked that Chris Nilan on TSN said that Datsyuk wanted to play with Mantha. Lets take this back to the other thread since this is from last season and we're bumping. 

Edited December 24, 2016 by kickazz