gdt ECQF Game 2 Post-GDT: at Tampa Bay 5, Red Wings 2

[Jacksoni 418]

Mantha should play imo. There's no reason not to play him at this point. He's no savior but at the same time his size is valuable. We're getting eaten by guys like Hedman out there.

I'd add to this making it "We're getting eaten alive by guys like Hedman out there."

Edited April 16, 2016 by Jacksoni

[Superman54 91]

I'll honestly just be happy to see Petr between the pipes. If I knew Howie wasnt capable of stealing this series what we're the wings brass thinking? Problem is they might be 2 games too late. ..I know petr was soft the last 2 months but before that he was playing at a elite level and one of the best goalies in the league. I don't think it's impossible for him to find his game he posessed just a few months ago. For the redwings to win this series we need December/January Mrazek..that should have been evident when this series started. We haven't scored all year why would that suddenly change, we have a better chance of Petr finding his game rather then the whole team attempting it. But again it might be 2 gameds too late, because now Petr has no room for error and that's not very fair on him.

[Superman54 91]

Howie never played in a series the way Petr did last year, and Howie has had many more opportunities. Whether the wings are just living in denial because they gave Howie I bad contract, or really believe Howie can elevate his game, either way they are wrong and should just listen to facts. Fact is Petes a better goalie. Holland needs to watch moneyball again

[kylee 727]

If Mrazek plays like he has lately this is going to get really ugly

[Superman54 91]

It's not been pretty to begin with

[wings4thecup06 504]

So we can forget about AA getting more ice time in game 3 or any time going forwards:

“Obviously, this seems to be a hot topic,” Wings coach Jeff Blashill said when asked if there’s been discussion about getting Athanasiou more ice time. “I like Double A as a player. I think Double A’s a good player. (Tyler) Johnson was the MVP of the (American Hockey League). Kucherov’s numbers in the (American Hockey League) were off the charts. Double A wasn’t at that level.”

Full article here:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/04/16/detroit-red-wings-andreas-athanasiou/83124606/

I get what he's saying, but he's conforming to the red wings way, and right now, who's to say that that's right? AA scored some big goals down the stretch, has shown flashes of great potential, so why not play him more? he's young and his D isn't excellent, but he's so fast and play him with the right people and they could wreak havoc on the Tampa defense. But no, you have to be elite first in order for that to happen.

And also, the same goes for Mantha, he'll be down until he's named postseason AHL MVP no doubt.

This is the most relevant quote regarding Mantha post practice today:

“I think both Abby and (Riley) Sheahan have done a real good job actually net-front,” Blashill said. “I think the bigger issue is finding a way to deliver pucks to the net. I don’t think our net presence has been an issue. We haven’t had nearly as many pucks delivered to the net, for multiple reasons. One, they do a great job blocking shots.”

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/04/16/detroit-red-wings-tampa-bay-lightning-fight/83125722/

In other words, we have a coach who thinks these first two games were close (i'll give him that for game 1, but not game 2) and he's unwilling to make many changes....

I'll actually be surprised if mrazek starts game 3.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

So we can forget about AA getting more ice time in game 3 or any time going forwards:

Obviously, this seems to be a hot topic, Wings coach Jeff Blashill said when asked if theres been discussion about getting Athanasiou more ice time. I like Double A as a player. I think Double As a good player. (Tyler) Johnson was the MVP of the (American Hockey League). Kucherovs numbers in the (American Hockey League) were off the charts. Double A wasnt at that level.

Full article here:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/04/16/detroit-red-wings-andreas-athanasiou/83124606/

I get what he's saying, but he's conforming to the red wings way, and right now, who's to say that that's right? AA scored some big goals down the stretch, has shown flashes of great potential, so why not play him more? he's young and his D isn't excellent, but he's so fast and play him with the right people and they could wreak havoc on the Tampa defense. But no, you have to be elite first in order for that to happen.

And also, the same goes for Mantha, he'll be down until he's named postseason AHL MVP no doubt.

This is the most relevant quote regarding Mantha post practice today:

I think both Abby and (Riley) Sheahan have done a real good job actually net-front, Blashill said. I think the bigger issue is finding a way to deliver pucks to the net. I dont think our net presence has been an issue. We havent had nearly as many pucks delivered to the net, for multiple reasons. One, they do a great job blocking shots.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/04/16/detroit-red-wings-tampa-bay-lightning-fight/83125722/

In other words, we have a coach who thinks these first two games were close (i'll give him that for game 1, but not game 2) and he's unwilling to make many changes....

I'll actually be surprised if mrazek starts game 3.

I just bitched about this on another topic .... Blashill is a f***en idiot wtf does Johnson and kucherov being elite in the ahl have to do with athanasiou? He's been one of our best players period give him ice time and let him fly and learn

f***en douchebag Blashill

Hey you know what Tatar was good but he wasn't elite in the ahl , neither was sheahan

Stfu and do your job and do what's best to help this team win

Edited April 16, 2016 by nyqvististhefuture

[Aethernum 276]

So we can forget about AA getting more ice time in game 3 or any time going forwards:

“Obviously, this seems to be a hot topic,” Wings coach Jeff Blashill said when asked if there’s been discussion about getting Athanasiou more ice time. “I like Double A as a player. I think Double A’s a good player. (Tyler) Johnson was the MVP of the (American Hockey League). Kucherov’s numbers in the (American Hockey League) were off the charts. Double A wasn’t at that level.”

Full article here:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/04/16/detroit-red-wings-andreas-athanasiou/83124606/

I get what he's saying, but he's conforming to the red wings way, and right now, who's to say that that's right? AA scored some big goals down the stretch, has shown flashes of great potential, so why not play him more? he's young and his D isn't excellent, but he's so fast and play him with the right people and they could wreak havoc on the Tampa defense. But no, you have to be elite first in order for that to happen.

And also, the same goes for Mantha, he'll be down until he's named postseason AHL MVP no doubt.

This is the most relevant quote regarding Mantha post practice today:

“I think both Abby and (Riley) Sheahan have done a real good job actually net-front,” Blashill said. “I think the bigger issue is finding a way to deliver pucks to the net. I don’t think our net presence has been an issue. We haven’t had nearly as many pucks delivered to the net, for multiple reasons. One, they do a great job blocking shots.”

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/04/16/detroit-red-wings-tampa-bay-lightning-fight/83125722/

In other words, we have a coach who thinks these first two games were close (i'll give him that for game 1, but not game 2) and he's unwilling to make many changes....

I'll actually be surprised if mrazek starts game 3.

Yup.

“We lost two games that I would say were very winnable and close,” coach Jeff Blashill said Saturday after practice. “We’ve got to find a way to turn the tide in our favor in this next game."

“It’s going to be a hard game. They’re going to come out and play real well."

“We’ve got to make sure we make one or two plays offensively and defensively better than they do."

“Each team is trying to win four games as fast as they can. We’ve got to win our first one here tomorrow. That’s our focus.”

---

I despise the PR machine mentality these days that says nobody is allowed to say anything meaningful or worthwhile to the media. The first game in this series was winnable, and close. The second game was winnable, but close? No. Everything else up there is meaningless word salad.

[VM1138 1,921]

Me, too. The PR machine has killed sports for me. Paul Woods in the radio is bad, too. We could have a ten million dollar player who hasn't scored a goal in three years and he would say the player was "very good and almost did score."

PR makes the pre and post game stuff garbage. I can't even read a lot of sports articles anymore. It's just so dull. All that's left is the actual game.

[TheWolf 20]

After yesterday:

Frustrated on a lot of levels. All the veterans keep talking about "controlling our emotions". The only real emotional penalty I saw that mattered was the Abby one where he got squeezed into boards and retaliated. The vets and Blashill are sitting in the living room having dinner while the house burns, and keep telling everyone else, "sit down, don't worry, the fire department will put it out".

We need some fire. Dats is the only veteran who is useful. He still has the skills, he still has the fire, and he is the only one who puts a decent hit on them. Kronwall is useless. Z is useless. E is useless and won't throw his size around. Tampa will try to goon it up in game 3, we better bring some size.

The team is too passive. They should be trying to score every possession and never sit back. They can't. The D gets picked apart. I'd rather try to score 5 than try to win 2-1. We aren't going to be able to.

Mantha needs to be up. Smith needs to be up. This team needs to be balls to the wall. This passiveness reminds me of the Pistons when it all fell apart. They thought they could flip the switch, and they would wait all game for it, and then it would be too little too late.

Howard was out of position far too much. Too many times he was saved by a dman or them missing the net. Need a goalie change the rest of the series.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Compare the location of Wings' goals vs Tampa's goals. Three of our four goals have been from floaters from the point, and Larkin's breakaway goal. We are not producing around the crease, from the slot, or from the face off dots. They're boxing us out and we aren't hopping on rebounds, or in the case of game 1, we are simply shooting everything from these locations right into a body or wide of the net. Playoffs are won and lost in the area within five feet of the crease, and right now we're losing that battle. The wings have a plethora of issues to overcome but this is the most glaring to me.

[wings4thecup06 504]

Thing is about the red wing way is that it USED to be that everyone above was so good that the new guys got the torch very slowly passed to them so that they could take over and keep it going.

The problem now is that formula no longer works, because the top guys have declined so much, and the salary cap era has basically put a stop to the Wings getting a steady diet of would be/future hall of famers so they could bring the likes of Datsyuk and Z along nice and slowly until they were ready to be first line players.

We don't have that luxury anymore. I respect Blashill and he's a way better coach than I will ever be, but what part of him can't see that Z is falling apart, Gus and Tatar haven't played well together in months, Richards (while he has put up stuff on the scoresheet and willl shoot the puck on the PP) isn't a top 6 guy anymore?? And if AA has been playing well in limited minutes while everyone else around is struggling to score, wouldn't you say that warrants some more ice time?????

It's like, how many times has this team been embarrassed this season? The Pittsburgh game a few weeks ago, I couldn't bare to watch it. I've never in my life seen a Wings team embarrassed that badly. They're so stuck in this rose tinted, veterans will save the day philosophy that we're actually royally f***ed.

Datsyuk goes to Russia next season, and we're might be lucky to squeeze into the playoffs, but really, is that good enough here? Yes we should be fortunate to play post season hockey, but this team doesn't deserve it. They're way too passive, and I'm glad Abby beat the s*** out of Blunden yesterday, because at least someone cares.

Please Jeff. Do something to light a fire under these guys, they've been slow starters for years now. Something has to change. I get it. You don't think Mantha has earned it, and he plays shoddy D apparently. But f*** it. Get him in there for some offence please!!!!

Compare the location of Wings' goals vs Tampa's goals. Three of our four goals have been from floaters from the point, and Larkin's breakaway goal. We are not producing around the crease, from the slot, or from the face off dots. They're boxing us out and we aren't hopping on rebounds, or in the case of game 1, we are simply shooting everything from these locations right into a body or wide of the net. Playoffs are won and lost in the area within five feet of the crease, and right now we're losing that battle. The wings have a plethora of issues to overcome but this is the most glaring to me.

I think the real thing is that besides Abby, there's a paucity of players on this team actually willing to go to the net to score. They're happy with putting everything right into Bishop's glove, or right into his bread basket. How is that ever going to get us goals? And the forecheck is non-existent because they refuse to dump the puck in away from Bishop, with our second man in so slow now that the puck is gone before theres any pressure on Tampa's D. After all these years, we're being beaten at our own game....

[kickazz 5,459]

One thing is for sure.

Manny > Ozzy > Mrazek > Howard

By a long shot.

Ahem what I mean is. They should start Mrazek next game.

Edited April 16, 2016 by kickazz

[Buppy 1,720]

This isn't that hard. Split Tatar and Nyquist up.

Larkin-Pav-Tatar

Nyquist-Z-Abby

AA-Richards-Mantha

Sheahan-Glen-Helm

I don't get why Blashill has stuck with them together all season long. They just don't work well together. They're too similar in the styles of their game, you need to separate them for them to be effective. I honestly don't know why Tatar hasn't played more with Datsyuk this year really....

While it's maybe not ideal, that line has actually been pretty effective this year. Of the 15 line combos with 40+ minutes 5v5 this year, they're 4th in CF% and SF%, 5th in GF60. They've had some defensive trouble, being 11th in GA60 and 7th in GF%, but to say they don't work isn't accurate.

Fact is, there aren't any good combinations that don't rely on players just playing better than they have lately.

Howie never played in a series the way Petr did last year, and Howie has had many more opportunities. Whether the wings are just living in denial because they gave Howie I bad contract, or really believe Howie can elevate his game, either way they are wrong and should just listen to facts. Fact is Petes a better goalie. Holland needs to watch moneyball again

I would argue that Howard against Ana/Chi in '13 was much better than Mrazek last year, and the 3 games he played against Bos in '14 was also just as good or better. Mrazek was up and down last year. He was excellent in a few games, average in others. His performance last year is way over-rated.

[VM1138 1,921]

Compare the location of Wings' goals vs Tampa's goals. Three of our four goals have been from floaters from the point, and Larkin's breakaway goal. We are not producing around the crease, from the slot, or from the face off dots. They're boxing us out and we aren't hopping on rebounds, or in the case of game 1, we are simply shooting everything from these locations right into a body or wide of the net. Playoffs are won and lost in the area within five feet of the crease, and right now we're losing that battle. The wings have a plethora of issues to overcome but this is the most glaring to me.

In one of the games even NBC's commentator criticized the Wings on an attack for not having anyone within ten feet of Bishop when they fired the first shot. Get rebounds and you'll get goals.

And they ARE passive. It's like they expect close games and decide to sit back and wait for the other team to make an unforced error. There's no pressure to try and make Tampa make a mistake they can then take advantage of. And if the other team is better than you, they aren't going to make many mistakes without being pressured.

Same with the power play. They seem to be waiting for the perfect shot, or else just shoot it after three guys get in the way.

While it's maybe not ideal, that line has actually been pretty effective this year. Of the 15 line combos with 40+ minutes 5v5 this year, they're 4th in CF% and SF%, 5th in GF60. They've had some defensive trouble, being 11th in GA60 and 7th in GF%, but to say they don't work isn't accurate.

Fact is, there aren't any good combinations that don't rely on players just playing better than they have lately.

I would argue that Howard against Ana/Chi in '13 was much better than Mrazek last year, and the 3 games he played against Bos in '14 was also just as good or better. Mrazek was up and down last year. He was excellent in a few games, average in others. His performance last year is way over-rated.

Not in the playoffs he wasn't. Mrazek was amazing. Howard has had good games in the playoffs but always costs us a game. Boston was a prime example of "good in one or two games, mediocre the rest."

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Red Wings are goons, Red Wings are a dirty team, suspend Abdelkader forever, etc

Heard that said here when the roles were reversed

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

One thing I've noticed from the Lightning is a number of low blows. I haven't seen anyone mention it, but then again maybe I just didn't dig deep enough into this thread or the GDT.

I think Sustr (sp?) did the blade in the groin to Richards and that's what set Richards off in the big brouhaha that lead to a bloody Blunden.

Then there was a play with Ericsson where some defenceman got about 3 or 4 hacks in. (Aside: then the defenceman hooked E, let go of the stick and E throws it away and TB got a hooking charge - To which Pierre McGuire makes the commentary that the Wings really got away with one there???)

[Buppy 1,720]

...

Not in the playoffs he wasn't. Mrazek was amazing. Howard has had good games in the playoffs but always costs us a game. Boston was a prime example of "good in one or two games, mediocre the rest."

Yes, in the playoffs.

Game 2 last year Mrazek gave up 4 goals on 18 shots and got pulled after the 2nd. Game 4 allowed 3 on 29. Game 6 allowed 4 on 27. Maybe none were terrible, but several were as "questionable" as what Howard is often criticized for. He was excellent overall, but people act like he was '02 Hasek or something.

Howard was great in games 1 and 3 .vs Boston. Game 2 was questionable. Very similar overall performance, aside from being only 3 games to 7 for Mrazek.

In 14 games in '13, Howard had a .927 or higher save%, and allowed 2 goals or less in 7. 4 more with .911-.923 sv%. He was easily the main reason we were in the series against Chicago, and a big reason why we beat the Ducks.

[kickazz 5,459]

Not in the playoffs he wasn't. Mrazek was amazing. Howard has had good games in the playoffs but always costs us a game. Boston was a prime example of "good in one or two games, mediocre the rest."

He was not "amazing" in the playoffs. We had a 3-2 series lead and he blew the 6th game in the series. We we literally up 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 in the series and Mrazek failed to clinch the series last year. And I'm pretty sure he got pulled in one of the games.

People are overrating Mrazek too much. I think we're getting confused about his Vezina like performance from this year and assuming he was amazing last year. He was not amazing last year he was very inconsistent. Which is fine because he was also a rookie.

Having said all that - it's not like Howard would have been better in the playoffs last year. On the opposite, it was very smart of Babcock to go with Mrazek because Howard was a disaster 2nd half of last year.

And moving forward it would likely be a good idea to try Mrazek in game 3. Better now than in game 4. The way Tampa has been playing (and the way our defense has sucked) we need a third defenseman against the Tampa offense.

Edited April 17, 2016 by kickazz

[NerveDamage 4,176]

He was not "amazing" in the playoffs. We had a 3-2 series lead and he blew the 6th game in the series. Mrazek failed to clinch the series last year. We we literally up 1-0, 2-1, 3-2 in the series.

People are overrating Mrazek too much. I mean he had a Vezina like performance this year for a stretch of 2 months or so. But he was very inconsistent last year (in his rookie year). Having said that - Babcock was still smart to use Mrazek over Howard last year. And moving forward it would likely be a good idea to try Mrazek in game 3. Better now than in game 4.

In the 2015 playoffs, didn't Mrazek had 2 shutout performances vs Tampa bouncing back from being pulled the previous game? that might have helped build the hype

Edited April 17, 2016 by NerveDamage

[roboturner 562]

Yes, in the playoffs.

Game 2 last year Mrazek gave up 4 goals on 18 shots and got pulled after the 2nd. Game 4 allowed 3 on 29. Game 6 allowed 4 on 27. Maybe none were terrible, but several were as "questionable" as what Howard is often criticized for. He was excellent overall, but people act like he was '02 Hasek or something.

Howard was great in games 1 and 3 .vs Boston. Game 2 was questionable. Very similar overall performance, aside from being only 3 games to 7 for Mrazek.

In 14 games in '13, Howard had a .927 or higher save%, and allowed 2 goals or less in 7. 4 more with .911-.923 sv%. He was easily the main reason we were in the series against Chicago, and a big reason why we beat the Ducks.

Howard of 3 years ago vs. Howard of now. He's now 1-8 in his last 9 playoff games. I suppose Petr must be 3-4 in his last 7 playoff games

In the 2015 playoffs, didn't Mrazek had 2 shutout performances vs Tampa bouncing back from being pulled the previous game? that might have helped build the hype

Yeah I think I remember hearing that they only got shut out twice during the season and Petr shut them out twice in the series.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

Yeah I think I remember hearing that they only got shut out twice during the season and Petr shut them out twice in the series.

and game 7 was a 1 goal game, up until that empty netter.

[kickazz 5,459]

In the 2015 playoffs, didn't Mrazek had 2 shutout performances vs Tampa bouncing back from being pulled the previous game? that might have helped build the hype

Yeah he did. And at times his puck handling was clutch but at other times led to goals. He was just inconsistent last year. He would have amazing games but then be a flop. Whereas Howard was an overall flop post all star break.

Learning curve. He became super consistent this year up until his bday. Idk what happened after that...

[Firehawk 305]

and game 7 was a 1 goal game, up until that empty netter.

Yep, until Blashill stupidly pulled Howard with way too much time left.

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

Blashill is such a ******* moron!