Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

Gus vs Tats

Much rather keep Tatar if we trade one but all the articles say we would be more likely to trade him over Nyquist cuz he is due for a 4.5 mill contract. I say who cares. Keep the better player.

[kickazz 5,459]

Much rather keep Tatar if we trade one but all the articles say we would be more likely to trade him over Nyquist cuz he is due for a 4.5 mill contract. I say who cares. Keep the better player.

Wait why would it matter if he's due for a $4.5 million contract? That's exactly what Nyquist is making right now. Losing Nyquist just frees up the cap space we would pay Tatar next year lol

[Internet.Unknown 422]

Gus vs Tats

I'm too old to learn new tricks. What does any of this s*** mean?

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

Wait why would it matter if he's due for a $4.5 million contract? That's exactly what Nyquist is making right now. Losing Nyquist just frees up the cap space we would pay Tatar next year lol

Not sure. That's what this article says.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2016/07/02/detroit-red-wings-search-defenseman/86644936/

[krsmith17 7,191]

Late to the party, as I was out of town all weekend, but overall I think it was a very good free agent frenzy for the Wings.

The number one thing we needed going into Friday was a top 6 center, and Nielsen seems to be a very good addition. The cap hit is fair, just a year or two longer than I would have liked. Overall solid signing.

I liked the Vanek signing as well. Seems like a low risk, high reward signing that has the potential to work out for us, if not, no big deal.

The Ott signing was basically the same way I felt about the Miller signing a few days ago. Completely unnecessary, but can't complain about minimal cap, depth signing.

Unlike most here, I was ecstatic to see Helm back. It was about $0.85M higher than I would have liked, but I'm okay with it. One of the most under-rated / under appreciated players on the team.

With these signings, it looks like Holland has set himself up to trade some forwards for help on the back end. If there's any way we can land Trouba, I think we will be in great shape going in to next season...

[Superman54 91]

Keeping nyquist over tatar would be the wrong choice, unless the opposing team prefers Thomas. For some reason though I think Holland rates nyquist higher, even though he plays softer.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I'm too old to learn new tricks. What does any of this s*** mean?

Just analytics nonsense ... Can't judge a player just by charts

[kickazz 5,459]

I'm too old to learn new tricks. What does any of this s*** mean?

In simple terms, it means that Tatar likes to shoot a lot and scores more often than Nyquist does. Nyquist is a better set up guy. It also means that Tatar does a better job of keeping the puck on the opposing teams net and a better job of keeping the puck away from our net.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

...so, Tatar is better, but Nyquist will be kept instead. Ya, that sounds like Holland.

[wings4thecup06 504]

Late to the party, as I was out of town all weekend, but overall I think it was a very good free agent frenzy for the Wings.

The number one thing we needed going into Friday was a top 6 center, and Nielsen seems to be a very good addition. The cap hit is fair, just a year or two longer than I would have liked. Overall solid signing.

I liked the Vanek signing as well. Seems like a low risk, high reward signing that has the potential to work out for us, if not, no big deal.

The Ott signing was basically the same way I felt about the Miller signing a few days ago. Completely unnecessary, but can't complain about minimal cap, depth signing.

Unlike most here, I was ecstatic to see Helm back. It was about $0.85M higher than I would have liked, but I'm okay with it. One of the most under-rated / under appreciated players on the team.

With these signings, it looks like Holland has set himself up to trade some forwards for help on the back end. If there's any way we can land Trouba, I think we will be in great shape going in to next season...

Agree with you on nielsen, and an important signing. Also thought the term was too long, but this is the nature of the beast these days its seems.

Side note, I love how everyone is preparing for another lockout with all the contracts signed at the moment being mostly made up of bonuses which are salary protected....

Also agree about Helm. While he has been inconsistent, his speed is an element that is key these days, and while the money was a bit too much, I'm glad he;s still here.

I have a problem with the Vanek signing for 2 reasons:

1. It represents an ongoing philosophy from KH whereby it seems he keeps signing 'veterans' on cheap deals that were once pretty good but are now obviously falling off the table in the hopes they regain their old magic. The problem here is that they actually don't regain this kind of magic, and instead of being a key player like KH hopes they will be, the end up clogging up a roster spot and prohibiting the team moving forward.

2. It's also another example of how KH really doesn't seem to want to give guys like Mantha and AA a real chance at getting good quality minutes at the NHL level, let alone make the roster. My own personal opinion is that it's holding this team back. We need to develop these new core players and give them the responsibility, yet eliminating roster spots by signing veterans who are basically past their prime is misguided in my opinion, and tantamount to another first round exit. (i'll eat my hat is Vanek scores 20-30 goals and am perfectly fine with that)

Ott I don't mind, because he brigns needed grit and energy and someone who actually will stick up for teammates besides Smith and Abby. Yes, it still eats another roster spot though, but ah well...

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree, and I wasn't exactly thrilled with the Vanek signing either. I think it's a good value signing, but unnecessary, unless there is actually a trade in the works... I don't really look at it as him taking a spot from Athanasiou / Mantha, but rather Pulkkinen / Jurco / Frk. The former are top 6 forwards while the latter, like Vanek, are / should be slotted in 3rd line right wing. I'd like to see a trade before training camp to alleviate some of the log jam up front. If we can trade Nyquist / Tatar along with Pulkkinen in a package for a top pair defenseman, while freeing up a spot in the top 6 for Athanasiou / Mantha as well as a spot in the bottom 6 for Vanek / Frk, it all works out...

I actually like the Ott signing more than I do the Miller signing, but neither were needed. I can see Miller playing every game he's healthy though, and Ott used sparingly...

[LeftWinger 4,951]

at Hudler still not being signed by anyone.

I'm surprised Versteeg is still out there as is Gagner. On the D, surprising that Russell, Schultz, Schenn and Jackman are still out there.

Edited July 4, 2016 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 4,951]

I'm seeing that Yerman has his work cut out for him, he has to re-sign all of Nesterov, Namestikov, Kucherov and Killhorn all under $12M in the remaining cap.. Probably could be done if they all agree to bridge deals, but honestly with the market, they all probably deserve $4M-$5M. Hell, Kucherov had 30 goals amng 66 pionts! He has 29 goals among 65 points the year prior! Thats money in todays NHL!

Edited July 4, 2016 by LeftWinger

[amato 3,210]

I'm seeing that Yerman has his work cut out for him, he has to re-sign all of Nesterov, Namestikov, Kucherov and Killhorn all under $12M in the remaining cap.. Probably could be done if they all agree to bridge deals, but honestly with the market, they all probably deserve $4M-$5M. Hell, Kucherov had 30 goals amng 66 pionts! He has 29 goals among 65 points the year prior! Thats money in todays NHL!

Definitely doable. I think kucherov probably gets half of it and around a 6x6 deal.. The real problem is on top of that, next year Johnson, Palat, Boyle, Drouin, Sustr will all need new contracts.

Bishop comes off the books next year too though so that'll help.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

Definitely doable. I think kucherov probably gets half of it and around a 6x6 deal.. The real problem is on top of that, next year Johnson, Palat, Boyle, Drouin, Sustr will all need new contracts.

Bishop comes off the books next year too though so that'll help.

He obviously can't keep them all, so some will be moved. But he will keep the nucleus which he has already started signing Stammer and Hedman to long term deals. This year is their best year to win it all. The time is now for Tampa.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

I'm too old to learn new tricks. What does any of this s*** mean?

I understand it as Tatar having a better projection than Nyquist. Probably with minutes as a first liner.

[amato 3,210]

He obviously can't keep them all, so some will be moved. But he will keep the nucleus which he has already started signing Stammer and Hedman to long term deals. This year is their best year to win it all. The time is now for Tampa.

Agreed. And I think he'll keep kucherov and drouin. Then Boyle will probably take a discount to stay and I'm sure Stevie will try to move filp.

He's got his work cut out for him, but Tampa could stay competitive for a long time with that core.

[wings4thecup06 504]

I agree, and I wasn't exactly thrilled with the Vanek signing either. I think it's a good value signing, but unnecessary, unless there is actually a trade in the works... I don't really look at it as him taking a spot from Athanasiou / Mantha, but rather Pulkkinen / Jurco / Frk. The former are top 6 forwards while the latter, like Vanek, are / should be slotted in 3rd line right wing. I'd like to see a trade before training camp to alleviate some of the log jam up front. If we can trade Nyquist / Tatar along with Pulkkinen in a package for a top pair defenseman, while freeing up a spot in the top 6 for Athanasiou / Mantha as well as a spot in the bottom 6 for Vanek / Frk, it all works out...

I actually like the Ott signing more than I do the Miller signing, but neither were needed. I can see Miller playing every game he's healthy though, and Ott used sparingly...

Thing is, I don't believe management feels like AA is a top 6 forward, nor are they willing to even give that to him (or let him have the chance to earn it). Look at his usage in the playoffs for exhibit A of that....

I'd love to agree with you, but I think it's kinda obvious Vanek is here to slot into the top 6, and no way will he live up to that. And this is exactly why I have a problem with KH's trend of signing these veterans. this isn't 2002 anymore, when we can slot a good veteran whose production has declined (Robitaille) on the 4th line... These signings are being counted on for quite a bit of offence, and if it doesn't work we're kinda screwed. Because management continue to want to just keep a barely alive playoff team on life support rather than go with more youth full time even if we miss the postseason for a year or two.

I would also happily jettison Nyquist in a package for a good D man, but somehow with Holland's trade track record and love for his own players, I don't see it happening and I can highly envision a scenario in which he'll state the price for D men was too high (in his defence it will be high, but if you don't take a risk or two you never know) and AA and Mantha are both in GR because of their waiver exemption status. While I fully expect at least one of Sproul or Ouellet to be exposed to waivers and probably claimed.

Sorry for the negativity, and while I'm fully behind this team, and appreciate how lucky we have been for 25 straight years, it seems like salary cap induced parity is an excuse for mediocrity...

Edited July 4, 2016 by wings4thecup06

[krsmith17 7,191]

I'm not sure if it will be Nyquist or Tatar or worst case Athanasiou or Mantha traded, but I definitely see some sort of trade in the near future to bring in a top 4 (hopefully top 2) defenseman. There's no way we should go into the season with 16 forwards (18 if you're including Athanasiou and Mantha) without shedding a player or two. Sure, Holland could send Athanasiou and Mantha down to play another season in Grand Rapids, and he could waive Frk and Callahan, assuming they'd clear, and he could once again pencil Jurco and Pulkkinen in as the 13th / 14th forwards, but that would be terrible asset management. A trade needs to happen to alleviate the log jam. If Holland signed all these players just so he could play them over the kids, I will be very disappointed. I would much rather have seen Pulkkinen / Jurco / Frk given an opportunity over Vanek, and I would much rather Callahan / Bertuzzi given the opportunity over Miller / Ott... We'll have to see how it all plays out over the next few months...

[Dabura 12,207]

HSJ seems to believe Larkin will be our 1C in 2016-17.

it seems like salary cap induced parity is an excuse for mediocrity...

There's no hockey store! We like our team! You gotta be able to play without the puck! Real good!

[krsmith17 7,191]

I think we'll see a 1A / 1B between Larkin and Nielsen and I'm quite okay with that.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

I think we'll see a 1A / 1B between Larkin and Nielsen and I'm quite okay with that.

I'd say don't count Z out. although I do hope Larkin and Nielsen stand up so our C turns to a more supportive roll.

[Dabura 12,207]

I think we'll see a 1A / 1B between Larkin and Nielsen and I'm quite okay with that.

Yeah, same here. I think Nielsen will get the brutal matchups (which is why I don't think Vanek will be on his wing) while Larkin has it easier. So, I guess the way I see it, Nielsen will be our 1A. If that distinction even matters.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

So of the pairs below which one player of the two would you rather give up to land that top 2 defender? You can only choose one from the pair(s.)

1. Nyquist or Tatar

2. Pulkkinen or Jurco

3. Athanasiou or Mantha

....first two not so tough, but the 3rd pair I am torn.

I trade:

1. Nyquist

2. Pulkkinen

3. Mantha...I just like AA a lot, but I'd trade BOTH Nyquist and Tatar to keep AA and Mantha!

[NerveDamage 4,176]

hahaI had the same. Can we trade Jurco instead of Mantha?