Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[kickazz 5,459]

Just a cheaper, younger, and likely a better option on the 4th line for us. Nothing more, nothing less.

Other better options are probably Bertuzzi and Nosek.

Edited September 30, 2016 by kickazz

[joesuffP 1,746]

Just bring in Cam Fowler and get it over it

DD-Smith

Fowler-Green

Kronwall-Marchenko

Nyquist+Jurco for Fowler

[DickieDunn 2,571]

The question was what's he done to make a team claim him on waivers knowing they'd need to keep him on their roster for the entire seaon. Solid AHL play doesn't do that. He's not that big and he still doesn't have a good first couple steps. Virtually every team has players of his caliber in their system, if they wanted something like thst, they'd just use their own player.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Buppy, just because teams have passed on Callahan doesn't in any way mean that he isn't as good as or better than anyone currently on our 4th line. Just like if he is waived this season and a team does pick him up, won't necessarily mean he is better than players on our our 4th line...

The only player ahead of him in my opinion that could / should fill a 4th line role is Bertuzzi, and I'd be okay with him as well. My point was never that we must make room for Cally on this team, it was that we should have never signed Ott, or re-signed Miller when we have better, cheaper options in our system...

[krsmith17 7,191]

Not a single person is saying that Callahan will get claimed when he inevitably gets waived in the next week or so. And not a single person would be to torn up if he did happen to get picked up by another team. No one really cared about Ferraro either except for the fact that he should have been kept over Miller and Andersson...

If a team does claim him, they don't "have to keep him on the roster for the entire season"... They just can't send him down without having to clear waivers again. I can't remember how long they have to keep him but it certainly isn't a full season...

And again, Callahan does have decent speed, and he's certainly faster than Miller and Ott. No, he's not big, but he is bigger than those guys as well...

[LeftWinger 4,935]

Fowler is a good option for sure, but at the expense of which D?

If Fowler is acquired, it knocks the one kid that would make it back out of the lineup, then bumps Smith down to #7.

I'd love him here, but I think a roster D would also have to be going back. Popular choice would be E, but we know that wont be. Either trade for Fowler or Trouba would probably include Smith just to make roster room.

I have a waiver question. If we waive a,player and he clears, is that the only time this season that they have to go on waivers? If later in the season he gets a call up, then sent down again, would he have to clear again?

[kliq 3,755]

Fowler is a good option for sure, but at the expense of which D?

If Fowler is acquired, it knocks the one kid that would make it back out of the lineup, then bumps Smith down to #7.

I'd love him here, but I think a roster D would also have to be going back. Popular choice would be E, but we know that wont be. Either trade for Fowler or Trouba would probably include Smith just to make roster room.

I have a waiver question. If we waive a,player and he clears, is that the only time this season that they have to go on waivers? If later in the season he gets a call up, then sent down again, would he have to clear again?

According to Wikipedia:

In the NHL, each player signs what is, or is a variation of, a standard NHL player's contract. The contract specifies that the team has exclusive rights to the player playing in the NHL. Once an NHL player has played in a certain number of games or a set number of seasons has passed since the signing of his first NHL contract (see here), that player must be offered to all of the other NHL teams before he can be assigned to a minor league affiliate.^[2] In the 2005 Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) assignment waivers applies only to loans from an NHL club to its American Hockey League (AHL) affiliate.^[3]

After a player has been designated for assignment, the other 29 NHL teams can put in a claim or waive their claim for that player. The claims process starts at noon Eastern Time and ends 24 hours later. If only one team makes a claim for the player, then he will be transferred to the claiming team. If more than one team makes a claim, then the player will be transferred to the team having the lowest percentage of possible points in league standings at the time of the request for waivers. If waivers are requested outside of the playing season, or before November 1, then the player shall be transferred to the team with the lowest points in the preceding season.^[4] If no team places a claim, the player can be sent to a minor league affiliate.

When a player clears waivers and is sent down and then is called up again, he does not have to clear waivers to be sent down again unless he has played ten games or has been "up" for 30 days.^[4]

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Solid offense, defense, and special teams ability at the next highest level in North American hockey.

Also, he's cheap and the salary cap exists.

This is the original answer I got

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Not a single person is saying that Callahan will get claimed when he inevitably gets waived in the next week or so. And not a single person would be to torn up if he did happen to get picked up by another team. No one really cared about Ferraro either except for the fact that he should have been kept over Miller and Andersson...

If a team does claim him, they don't "have to keep him on the roster for the entire season"... They just can't send him down without having to clear waivers again. I can't remember how long they have to keep him but it certainly isn't a full season...

And again, Callahan does have decent speed, and he's certainly faster than Miller and Ott. No, he's not big, but he is bigger than those guys as well...

If a player us claimed, then the team that claimed him wants to waive him, they have to offer him back to his original team for free, and they're our the 50k or whatever the waiver claim fee is. And before anyineI says it, no that's the same as one of us being out five bucks. $50k is $50k, and businesses have a budget down to the dollar. They're not going to be happy throwing that money away.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

If a player us claimed, then the team that claimed him wants to waive him, they have to offer him back to his original team for free, and they're our the 50k or whatever the waiver claim fee is. And before anyineI says it, no that's the same as one of us being out five bucks. $50k is $50k, and businesses have a budget down to the dollar. They're not going to be happy throwing that money away.

it's really hard to understand what this post is saying. (Not putting it down - it's understandable, it's a Friday night and I've certainly had a few)

If you're trying to say that having a player picked up and then waved again would cost us, you're forgetting the aspect that we don't have to pay their salary anymore. Even if there's some kind of 50k fee - it's a fraction of the 600 000+ that we'd be paying them, so we'd be saving money in that case. That is, of course, if I understood you correctly (which I probably didn't).

Edited October 1, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[Buppy 1,720]

In my example above, Jurco's the most unproven of the proposed 4th liners. Otherwise Helm and Sheahan have shown decent ability to produce against tougher competition than a fourth line would provide. Not many 4th lines around the league actually play hockey. Most, like ours, are checking line guys who play the majority of the time in their own zone. I have plenty of faith (I acknowledge that it's just speculation) the 30+ points that Sheahan and Helm have proven capable of producing against tougher matchups would carry over against lesser lines...even despite the reduced ice time. 60 odd points out of your fourth line would be pretty nice.

Mostly produced while playing with much better players as well. Sheahan spent most of last year on the third line playing with Nyquist and Tatar. I'm not so optimistic that giving him less time with far worse linemates would improve his output. Nor for that matter do I think putting Nyquist with AA and Mantha would be any more dangerous than Sheahan/Tatar.

I like your optimism, and like I've said I do hope we at least experiment with the concept at some point, but my expectations would be somewhat more conservative.

So what if teams passed on him. That's not really a convincing argument. Almost as weak of a point as the one being pointed out in your post.

Not trying to say it's definitive proof that he'd be worse than Miller and Ott, but it certainly says something. 30 NHL teams full of people who evaluate players for a living, and are among the very best at doing that in the entire world, and for two years none of them have thought there was enough of a chance that he might be better than what they already had to give him a chance.

...

The only player ahead of him in my opinion that could / should fill a 4th line role is Bertuzzi, and I'd be okay with him as well. My point was never that we must make room for Cally on this team, it was that we should have never signed Ott, or re-signed Miller when we have better, cheaper options in our system...

But it's kind of a stretch to include Callahan in the "better" category. There's no good reason to think he could really do anything at the NHL level. So mostly you're just saying how bad you think Ott and Miller will be. "Given a shot" in the context of your earlier post suggests to me you think he should be on the team ahead of those guys.

I'm just saying he'd be pretty far down my list of replacements if I'm getting rid of someone. Even if for some reason I felt I had to have a shutdown checking line, and for some reason thought Callahan would do that better than Miller or Ott, I certainly wouldn't think he'd fit better than Helm or Sheahan. AA, Pulk, Mantha, Jurco, probably Svech and Bertuzzi, or even rolling 7 D with Sproul, maybe Jensen/Ouellet. All better options that Callahan IMO.

[FireCaptain 563]

TIL: There's a 'waiver fee'??

If a player us claimed, then the team that claimed him wants to waive him, they have to offer him back to his original team for free, and they're our the 50k or whatever the waiver claim fee is. And before anyineI says it, no that's the same as one of us being out five bucks. $50k is $50k, and businesses have a budget down to the dollar. They're not going to be happy throwing that money away.

[krsmith17 7,191]

This isn't and never was about Callahan for me. So I'll say it AGAIN... if it were any of the other guys you mentioned above that made the roster over Miller and / or Ott, I would be thrilled. So yes, this is about how useless I think Miller and Ott are, not how awesome I think Mitch Callahan is... So AGAIN, if Callahan is waived and claimed, I won't care about the quality of the player we are losing because players like Cally are a dime a dozen. I will however care that he was waived in order to keep two scrubs in the lineup...

We're likely going to see a 4th line of Miller - Glendening - Ott and I think that will be absolutely awful. From an analytics standpoint, they have been among the 3 worst in the entire league, and now we're going to throw all 3 on a line and see what happens... They will continue to get hemmed in their own zone for 15 minutes a night and get talked up for their defensive prowess...

[LeftWinger 4,935]

This isn't and never was about Callahan for me. So I'll say it AGAIN... if it were any of the other guys you mentioned above that made the roster over Miller and / or Ott, I would be thrilled. So yes, this is about how useless I think Miller and Ott are, not how awesome I think Mitch Callahan is... So AGAIN, if Callahan is waived and claimed, I won't care about the quality of the player we are losing because players like Cally are a dime a dozen. I will however care that he was waived in order to keep two scrubs in the lineup...

We're likely going to see a 4th line of Miller - Glendening - Ott and I think that will be absolutely awful. From an analytics standpoint, they have been among the 3 worst in the entire league, and now we're going to throw all 3 on a line and see what happens... They will continue to get hemmed in their own zone for 15 minutes a night and get talked up for their defensive prowess...

We are going to see that line, they've already named it. According to Ken Kal its the " OMG! Line " I'm not making this up.

But just like you are telling us that we will be happy with Helm, I have a strong feeling that Ott is going to surprise a lot of people and become a fairly important player on this team. If I'm wrong, meh, at least its only 1 year and very little cap hit.

I'm always mad when we lose players for free, so if we lose even ONE of our waiver players, I will be mad. I'd rather trade the player for a low pick if possible, or package for a bigger return. But, thus is the NHL.

[LeftWinger 4,935]

http://mynhltraderumors.com/nhl-rumors-jacob-trouba-potential-trade-partners-for-the-winnipeg-jets/2016/10/01/

This has been posted before about Dekeyser being the central piece, if that's the case, then I prefer we pursue Fowler. DD is our leader on D, we are acquiring someone to play with him, not in his place.

I say we make the deal to Anaheim for Fowler, that way we'd seem less desperate and wait until the price comes down on Trouba and see if we cannot grab him as well.

Of course there's always the 3-way deal that has been mentioned.

I just feel that we still need to upgrade the D. Ericsson looked like s*** last night. I can't believe he is going to take a spot away from someone...AND probably get protected!

[LeftWinger 4,935]

http://www.griffinshockey.com/news/releases/?article_id=3474&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

...and the cuts begin!

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Can't wait to see what they call the Nosek Ott and Bertuzzi line

[Jacksoni 418]

http://www.griffinshockey.com/news/releases/?article_id=3474&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

...and the cuts begin!

They dropped Daniel Cleary to the Griffins? Such bad form and blasphemy..

[LeftWinger 4,935]

http://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2016/09/ducks-looking-trade.html

Ducks don't want any salary back, so much for trading Nyquist. How nice are those overpaid contracts looking now? Sure could use about $4M in cap space to acquire something we need...oh well, we're fast.

Jimmy, Ericsson, Helm, Nyquist...all that overpaid garbage. PLUS they all have NTC's!!! (Nyquist kicks in next year)

We Like our team. Two players we need to make our team better, and we can not even sniff them because of overpaid hot garbage mid tier players. Average at best. Great Job Kenny!

Edited October 1, 2016 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 4,935]

momentary lapse there....back to calmness!

screw it, lets just roll with:

DD - Smith

Ericsson - Green

XO - Marchenko

Sproul(Jensen)

until Kronwall is healthy...we'll re-evaluate at the deadline.

[Legendary D In 03 50]

Can't wait to see what they call the Nosek Ott and Bertuzzi line

For all the americans who don't know British slang, I'll laugh at this one.

[LeftWinger 4,935]

For all the americans who don't know British slang, I'll laugh at this one.

I thought there was a joke in there somewhere, but ya, I don't know it.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Someone has too actually see it in order to believe this stupid s***, the Wings are going into the season with an abyssmal defense. Other than Danny Dekeyser there is nobody that can be trusted in his own end, Green is more focused on playing forward, Kronwall has two knees and nobody knows how they'll hold up...I feel bad for Mrazek and Howard no goaltender would look good behind such af****** defense.

Also if Anaheim doesn't want to take back any salary they'll never be able to trade Fowler..oh how nice that Datysuk contract trade would have looked right now plus Wings would have had Chychrun instead of Clowski.

If the defense wasn't bad enough if Larkin has a sophomore slump there won't even be a first line center. I can't even remember the last big trade the Wings have made great way to create excitement for the last season at the Joe. At least signing Backes for 5 years would have created some entertainment but no it needed to be Nielsen for 6 freaking years, another pass first shoot later guy.

Edited October 1, 2016 by frankgrimes

[WingsallTheway 383]

Someone has too actually see it in order to believe this stupid s***, the Wings are going into the season with an abyssmal defense. Other than Danny Dekeyser there is nobody that can be trusted in his own end, Green is more focused on playing forward, Kronwall has two knees and nobody knows how they'll hold up...I feel bad for Mrazek and Howard no goaltender would look good behind such af****** defense.

Also if Anaheim doesn't want to take back any salary they'll never be able to trade Fowler..oh how nice that Datysuk contract trade would have looked right now plus Wings would have had Chychrun instead of Clowski.

If the defense wasn't bad enough if Larkin has a sophomore slump there won't even be a first line center. I can't even remember the last big trade the Wings have made great way to create excitement for the last season at the Joe. At least signing Backes for 5 years would have created some entertainment but no it needed to be Nielsen for 6 freaking years, another pass first shoot later guy.

Nielsen was one of the best players at the WCH, tons of fans and analysts are saying he has looked fantastic. I don't see how signing backes over nielsen would have been better, and even if it is, what makes you think he would have wanted to come to detroit?

NYI fans were fuming that Nielsen left to come to Detroit.

Also, backes has had 119,104, and 83 PIM the past 3 seasons. 25 minutes of those are for fighting. We don't need guys who can't play defence and take tripping/hooking penalties. We have enough with Larkin Ericsson and Abby

Edited October 1, 2016 by WingsallTheway

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Nielsen was one of the best players at the WCH, tons of fans and analysts are saying he has looked fantastic. I don't see how signing backes over nielsen would have been better, and even if it is, what makes you think he would have wanted to come to detroit?

NYI fans were fuming that Nielsen left to come to Detroit.

Also, backes has had 119,104, and 83 PIM the past 3 seasons. 25 minutes of those are for fighting. We don't need guys who can't play defence and take tripping/hooking penalties. We have enough with Larkin Ericsson and Abby

I don't put much stock into the Worldcup other than Canada there are maybe 2 - 3 teams who take this seriously. Yeah Backes does something nobody on this team seems willing to do, block shots, throw some hits and fight while still being highly skilled! Nielsen is your prototypical pass first, shoot later kind of guy (not that the Wings didn't have already enough of those type of players). Well the Islanders should have been fuming over losing Okposo, who isn't only much younger but also bigger and can do it all, they've lost a lot of good players. I think a player like Nielsen can work well if you have a sniper on your team - the Wings don't (hopefully Mantha can become that).

Just to be clear I didn't want anybody of the remaining players after Stamkos reupped with Tampa because I know nobody (Backes, Ladd, Nielsen...) would have fixed the number 1 center position. Okposo would have been nice as would Lucic but their destinations were more than clear. I don't know if he wanted to come here or not but I believe asking and making a competitive shouldn't have been to much to ask for.

You may value Backes PIMs as a negative I see them as a positive because it shows the guy cares and does it all.

Edited October 1, 2016 by frankgrimes