Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[joesuffP 1,746]

I love how the off-season reports of Kronwall's injury suddenly make him the worst defenseman in the NHL. Pretty safe bet he will still be a much better option in the top 4 then Ouellette and Marchenko

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I love how the off-season reports of Kronwall's injury suddenly make him the worst defenseman in the NHL. Pretty safe bet he will still be a much better option in the top 4 then Ouellette and Marchenko

Of course he will but it would be unfair to him to expect to play top 4 minutes with 2 bad knees. Nobody knows how his knees will hold up over the long grind of an NHL season.

[LeftWinger 4,949]

I hope he stays out and gets 100% healthy. For obvious reasons that a healthy Kronwall is a better Kronwall. But also we'll be able to get a good look at two of the three kids on D. Especially Sproul. I wish we could keep all 3 up somehow.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

as we stand, they only have $6.7M available cap next season. Tatar will get Nyquist money, Smith will get at least $4M, not even counting Jurco, Pulkkinen or any other "kid" they bring up. Unless they dump Howard AND Ericsson they will have no room to do even have the same team they have now.

Buyout would have E at a cap hit of $1.6M, $1.3M, $1.3M, $1.3M, $1.3M, $1.3M and Howard at $1.8M, $2.3M, $1.5M, $1.5M.

Thats a lot of years to pay someone to not be here, but if neither are claimed and we cannot trade them, in order to be able to have a team and not waive ALL the kids without exemptions, this is the only choice.

Of course that's still counting Franzen's money, but it would be the most beneficial to rid ourselves of E and Howard. Nyquist would help too, but that would most likely involve cap coming back in trade, so that would wash.

We also have to make sure we hold some money for two years from now when Larkin is going to get every bit of at least $5M and Mrazek will get $6M....s*** man, I didn't even real all the contracts due up the next couple of years, Holland better hope his "kids" are the answer because with the god awful contracts he has given out, and will no doubt give again, he will have ZERO room for UFA upgrades the next couple of seasons. We already know he won't trade players away for upgrades, so that's out the window.

Good thing we have our core of Nielsen Abdelkader Helm and Glendening all locked up!

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Good thing we have our core of Nielsen Abdelkader Helm and Glendening all locked up!

You can hate all you want. I'm quite happy to have those players for the foreseeable future.

Can't wait till the season starts so the doom and gloomers can stop making up things to moan about. We're already talking about a cap crunch when Larkins contract is up? Christ...

[mackel 679]

You can hate all you want. I'm quite happy to have those players for the foreseeable future.

Can't wait till the season starts so the doom and gloomers can stop making up things to moan about. We're already talking about a cap crunch when Larkins contract is up? Christ...

That's a legitimate concern, with the way Holland over pays in both dollars and term for infinitely replaceable players. Helm, Glendening, Ericsson, Howard and the like. All decent NHLERS who are over signed, the thought being they would or will turn out to ge bargins a year or two into the deal, hasn't happened yet and likely won't.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

as we stand, they only have $6.7M available cap next season. Tatar will get Nyquist money, Smith will get at least $4M, not even counting Jurco, Pulkkinen or any other "kid" they bring up. Unless they dump Howard AND Ericsson they will have no room to do even have the same team they have now.

Thats a lot of years to pay someone to not be here, but if neither are claimed and we cannot trade them, in order to be able to have a team and not waive ALL the kids without exemptions, this is the only choice.

We also have to make sure we hold some money for two years from now when Larkin is going to get every bit of at least $5M and Mrazek will get $6M....s*** man, I didn't even real all the contracts due up the next couple of years, Holland better hope his "kids" are the answer because with the god awful contracts he has given out, and will no doubt give again, he will have ZERO room for UFA upgrades the next couple of seasons. We already know he won't trade players away for upgrades, so that's out the window.

Without Ott, Miller, Vitale, Vanek, Jurco & Pulkinen we have 7,254, 167. I think all are questionable to be re-signed.

If you add Smith to that (I do think there's a strong possibility that he's not re-signed or is claimed by Vegas) than we would have 10, 004 167. Plus whatever amount the cap goes up...

Not a lot to worry about here. Tatar gets 2-2.25 mill out of that for a raise. Jurco and Pulks would be cheap. Then you could re-sign Vanek or Smith and I think you'd still have room for a UFA.

That's a legitimate concern, with the way Holland over pays in both dollars and term for infinitely replaceable players. Helm, Glendening, Ericsson, Howard and the like. All decent NHLERS who are over signed, the thought being they would or will turn out to ge bargins a year or two into the deal, hasn't happened yet and likely won't.

It's not really a legitimate concern. In 2 years Green's big contract comes off - That's when Larkin's deal is up and I don't think anyone thinks he's getting more than Green's 6 mill (plus his current .900 - it would have to be)

then in 3 year we lose Kronwall and Howard's big contract's so another 10 mill will be freed up for younger players.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

You can hate all you want. I'm quite happy to have those players for the foreseeable future.

Can't wait till the season starts so the doom and gloomers can stop making up things to moan about. We're already talking about a cap crunch when Larkins contract is up? Christ...

and you can act fanboyish all you want, since you are happy with every move of course you call everyone who sees a flaw in the masters plan a hater.....Although not having a number 1 center, number 1 defenseman and no star (not even talking about superstars) on the team would have most realistic people concerned.

The Nielsen contract is too long for what he brings, period. This is a guy who can work great behind a stud center and with a sniper on his line. Do the Wings have that ? No. It's the same BS as the Ericson in Vancouver signing he doesn't help them long-term in fact he is going to hurt their chances Patrick, Liljekren by the time the canucks could be good again, he will be a 6 mill anchor...just like Nielsen will be.

Still amazed that Anaheim and Detroit can't seem to workout a deal, ducks are screaming for more offense and wings are screaming for a quality defenseman. Either Holland and Murray really can't stand each other or Anaheim has a lower internal budget than some of us believe

p.s.: wanna know what happens to teams that continuously refuse to accept roster flaws..look no further than the Leafs before Shanahan brought in Babcock, Lou and that drafting guru and of course the canucks Boa Horvat , Tanev and then what?...yep.

Edited October 3, 2016 by frankgrimes

[LeftWinger 4,949]

Pav, Vegas would be stupid to claim any pending UFA. The draft is in June, Smith becomes a UFA July 1. They would waste a pick by selecting a player who could very well walk a couple of weeks later.

[LeftWinger 4,949]

I still think we could benefit by getting Fowler. If we could deal about $4M in contract(s) to a team for a pick, then acquire Fowler, possibly with said draft pick.

I sure wish we could dump Howard or E for that draft pick...

http://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2016/10/allowed-before-expansion.html

Very interesting...but if they acquire someone at the trade deadline, does that player just take the rest of the season off?

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Pav, Vegas would be stupid to claim any pending UFA. The draft is in June, Smith becomes a UFA July 1. They would waste a pick by selecting a player who could very well walk a couple of weeks later.

Yeah, my mistake. I do think Smith there's a big chance that Smith won't be back, though. I guess it would be through free agency,

I'm kind of indifferent about him personally - I just don't think the team has shown much love for him.

[LeftWinger 4,949]

I watched the game today and it just looked as though the kids out there were better than he was. If they are going to keep him, i hope he plays better. If not, he'll find himself #7 or maybe even waived. He didn't look bad by any means, but the kids just looked like they had more jump. Of course they're trying to earn a spot, so they should be playing their hardest. But really, so should he...along with erection.

If they cant move erection along with Howard, they may be able to move Smith for a pick snd then also move howard to make some room.

Edited October 3, 2016 by LeftWinger

[joesuffP 1,746]

Wrong thread.

Edited October 3, 2016 by joesuffP

[Buppy 1,720]

...

Very interesting...but if they acquire someone at the trade deadline, does that player just take the rest of the season off?

The article says "up to three weeks before the expansion draft". So early June probably. Possibly after the finals end even.

[chaps80 1,591]

Was just reading up on the rules for the Vegas expansion draft. The summer after their first season they are guaranteed no lower than the 6th overall pick in Round 1, and will pick third in every round after that. What if the team they assemble somehow gels and makes the playoffs? Unlikely, I know. But what if? Should they still get those picks? I think if they make the playoffs, they should pick according to where they get knocked out. If not, then they get the picks.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Was just reading up on the rules for the Vegas expansion draft. The summer after their first season they are guaranteed no lower than the 6th overall pick in Round 1, and will pick third in every round after that. What if the team they assemble somehow gels and makes the playoffs? Unlikely, I know. But what if? Should they still get those picks? I think if they make the playoffs, they should pick according to where they get knocked out. If not, then they get the picks.

That's highly unlikely it's going to be a team that needs to find chemistry because they'll be build up of 20 different players that never played together before. Unless they somehow click in a ridiculous short fashion there is no way Vegas (insert name) is going to be a playoff team in the first season. They won't have any superstars or stars because nobody is making them available. They'll be a better Atlanta Trashers version.

[LeftWinger 4,949]

The article says "up to three weeks before the expansion draft". So early June probably. Possibly after the finals end even.

They changed the title of the article, lol! When i first posted, the title said "Vegas could be a buyer at the 2017 Trade Deadline..."

Heres the original tweet:

https://twitter.com/prohockeyrumors/status/782740279598145536

[mackel 679]

Without Ott, Miller, Vitale, Vanek, Jurco & Pulkinen we have 7,254, 167. I think all are questionable to be re-signed.

If you add Smith to that (I do think there's a strong possibility that he's not re-signed or is claimed by Vegas) than we would have 10, 004 167. Plus whatever amount the cap goes up...

Not a lot to worry about here. Tatar gets 2-2.25 mill out of that for a raise. Jurco and Pulks would be cheap. Then you could re-sign Vanek or Smith and I think you'd still have room for a UFA.

It's not really a legitimate concern. In 2 years Green's big contract comes off - That's when Larkin's deal is up and I don't think anyone thinks he's getting more than Green's 6 mill (plus his current .900 - it would have to be)

then in 3 year we lose Kronwall and Howard's big contract's so another 10 mill will be freed up for younger players.

So are we just not replacing those players or do their replacements intend to play for free... their contracts come off the booKS but someone's gotta fill those skates.

[LeftWinger 4,949]

Without Ott, Miller, Vitale, Vanek, Jurco & Pulkinen we have 7,254, 167. I think all are questionable to be re-signed.

If you add Smith to that (I do think there's a strong possibility that he's not re-signed or is claimed by Vegas) than we would have 10, 004 167. Plus whatever amount the cap goes up...

Not a lot to worry about here. Tatar gets 2-2.25 mill out of that for a raise. Jurco and Pulks would be cheap. Then you could re-sign Vanek or Smith and I think you'd still have room for a UFA.

It's not really a legitimate concern. In 2 years Green's big contract comes off - That's when Larkin's deal is up and I don't think anyone thinks he's getting more than Green's 6 mill (plus his current .900 - it would have to be)

then in 3 year we lose Kronwall and Howard's big contract's so another 10 mill will be freed up for younger players.

not counting Franzen, we have $10.6M roughly and that includes $0 for Tatar since his contract will be off the books, so he will get every bit of Nyquist's $4.75, if not $5M of that $10M. That only leaves $5M (give or take $250k) to fill 7 other open roster spots. Go to capfriendly.com and you will see all the numbers and players. IF they re-sign Smith, expect him to get a raise as well. No doubt about it, they have to get rid of some salary just to ice a complete team next season. So don't expect any splash's come July 1, 2017 unless they sell of some contracts at the deadline...but they won't because Holland.

Edited October 3, 2016 by LeftWinger

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

So are we just not replacing those players or do their replacements intend to play for free... their contracts come off the booKS but someone's gotta fill those skates.

If you re-read my post, I added up the available cap space for next year and then allotted to players signing - I didn't just subtract those player's caphit

One I didn't include, but I thought was obvious was that Mantha will be on the team next year taking up a roster spot with a low caphit. If Miller and Ott aren't back, Jurco could take 1 spot and the other is open for Callahan or Bertuzzi or some other prospect (or that could be where the UFA money goes) If Smith wasn't re-signed, either Sproul takes a spot (if he's not claimed) or maybe Russo (team seems high on him) or that's where the extra UFA money goes.

As for Howard, It's been written that the organization plans to have Coreau succeed him as the backup (with a small caphit). As for who is in the place of Green and Kronwall, those are big holes, but - as I said in the previous post - our big re-signees in the next few years (Larkin and Tatar) won't take up the combined caphit (around 16 million) of these 3 big contracts, so there will money to spend on UFA Dmen or some other replacements.

Anyway, bottom line is I don't see why there's this fear of a cap crunch. This year, due to Dats contract being gone, we had enough to add 3 UFAs (Vanek, Ott, Neilson). We have big contract coming off for the next few years and that will take care of raises and we're trying to bring prospects onto the team for the next while (Mantha, bert, Svech, Cholowski?) so these smaller caphits will take up the available spots.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

not counting Franzen, we have $10.6M roughly and that includes $0 for Tatar since his contract will be off the books, so he will get every bit of Nyquist's $4.75, if not $5M of that $10M. That only leaves $5M (give or take $250k) to fill 7 other open roster spots. Go to capfriendly.com and you will see all the numbers and players. IF they re-sign Smith, expect him to get a raise as well. No doubt about it, they have to get rid of some salary just to ice a complete team next season. So don't expect any splash's come July 1, 2017 unless they sell of some contracts at the deadline...but they won't because Holland.

With my previous calculation, I think I forgot to consider that Vitale's going to LTIR and that we're over the cap.

Hmm, it is closer than I thought with the current cap and would maybe force Smith out in the unlikely situation that the cap stayed the same, but still do-able:

10,708,333 for 7 roster spots that capfriendly has open next year:

-5 Tatar

-.863,333 Mantha (already signed for next 2 years)

-1.450 XO (marchenko's deal - I think it's a bit generous)

-.9 AA (not sure what he gets on his next deal - all depends on how much he plays this year)

-.9 Jurco (RFA)

-.9 Pulk (RFA)

-.625 Sproul (already signed for next 2 years)

=.070 left over

But the cap has gone up at least 1.75 mill the past couple years so there might be room for Smith or Vanek or a UFA. If the cap goes back to a larger increase - like 09-12 - then there would definitely be room.

Also, we don't know who will be claimed by Vegas. Sheahan?, Howard? Anyway, that would clear up cap space.

Edited October 4, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[kliq 3,755]

You can hate all you want. I'm quite happy to have those players for the foreseeable future.

Can't wait till the season starts so the doom and gloomers can stop making up things to moan about. We're already talking about a cap crunch when Larkins contract is up? Christ...

Don't take in personally, some just like to be over the top negative and cynical and make everything out to be doom and gloom then try to pass it off as being "realists". Extreme in either direction is not a good way to look at things.

I think this is just a natural reaction of some who got so accustomed to seeing the Wings dominate for 20 years, that now that they are not are essentially acting out.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think everything Holland does is perfect, and I do think that adding a 1A d-man is essential (crossing my fingers that they trade for Trouba) but this team is not a pile of garbage because of Abby, Helm and Glendening like some will make you believe. Personally, I am excited about this team with a core of Larkin, Mrazek, DD and co. moving forward. Do I wish the aforementioned players were signed for a few less years/dollars, of course, but I don't think it breaks us.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Don't take in personally, some just like to be over the top negative and cynical and make everything out to be doom and gloom then try to pass it off as being "realists". Extreme in either direction is not a good way to look at things.

I think this is just a natural reaction of some who got so accustomed to seeing the Wings dominate for 20 years, that now that they are not are essentially acting out.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think everything Holland does is perfect, and I do think that adding a 1A d-man is essential (crossing my fingers that they trade for Trouba) but this team is not a pile of garbage because of Abby, Helm and Glendening like some will make you believe. Personally, I am excited about this team with a core of Larkin, Mrazek, DD and co. moving forward. Do I wish the aforementioned players were signed for a few less years/dollars, of course, but I don't think it breaks us.

It probably wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't the same people with the same absurd predictions/complaints.

Every single year...

I used to try and actually engage in conversation with them but found that a complete waste of time.

I really do commend yourself and Krsmith and PVD and so many others for challenging them and saying what so many of us are thinking so much of the time. You guys have tremendous patience.

Also...just because someone disagrees with an extreme view (pessimist/realist) doesn't make them the opposite (fanboy/apologist). This isn't a world of extremes. Well then again... maybe some of you are much more used to that in the U.S. I disagree with many of Holland's decision's and even some of the core beliefs of the franchise.

Regardless I CANNOT wait for this season to start. Really excited. So many opportunities for new guys and unanswered questions with this team and roster.

I think we can be one of the fastest teams in the league and really surprise some people.

[kliq 3,755]

Also...just because someone disagrees with an extreme view (pessimist/realist) doesn't make them the opposite (fanboy/apologist). This isn't a world of extremes. Well then again...

I didn't think your comments came across this way and to be fair I dont think many on these boards do. The majority of the people who are pretty level headed on this board have the consensus that they are excited for the future with all the young talent we have coming up, but I dont think any are saying things to extreme's (ie. guaranteeing championships, refusing to acknowledge mistakes etc.). Also, when it does come to mistakes, alot of people are experts when they look at things in hindsight. We could all build winners if we had a crystal ball lol.

[LeftWinger 4,949]

http://mynhltraderumors.com/2016-17-top-10-detroit-red-wings-prospects/2016/10/03/

Odd that they have XO in this list, but not Sproul...