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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

By Hockeytown0001, in General

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kliq    3,755

kliq
Posted

http://mynhltraderumors.com/2016-17-top-10-detroit-red-wings-prospects/2016/10/03/

Odd that they have XO in this list, but not Sproul...

Alot of people are down on Sproul, this doesn't shock me. This is a make or break it year for him.

XO is a player I personally really like. I haven't seen anything of him in the AHL, but from what I have seen on the Wings, I thing he is a good third pairing d-man, and I really like his passing ability. I can think of quite a few really nice passes he has made that led to goals, something we dont see from our D often lol.

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mackel    679

mackel
Posted

If you re-read my post, I added up the available cap space for next year and then allotted to players signing - I didn't just subtract those player's caphit

One I didn't include, but I thought was obvious was that Mantha will be on the team next year taking up a roster spot with a low caphit. If Miller and Ott aren't back, Jurco could take 1 spot and the other is open for Callahan or Bertuzzi or some other prospect (or that could be where the UFA money goes) If Smith wasn't re-signed, either Sproul takes a spot (if he's not claimed) or maybe Russo (team seems high on him) or that's where the extra UFA money goes.

As for Howard, It's been written that the organization plans to have Coreau succeed him as the backup (with a small caphit). As for who is in the place of Green and Kronwall, those are big holes, but - as I said in the previous post - our big re-signees in the next few years (Larkin and Tatar) won't take up the combined caphit (around 16 million) of these 3 big contracts, so there will money to spend on UFA Dmen or some other replacements.

Anyway, bottom line is I don't see why there's this fear of a cap crunch. This year, due to Dats contract being gone, we had enough to add 3 UFAs (Vanek, Ott, Neilson). We have big contract coming off for the next few years and that will take care of raises and we're trying to bring prospects onto the team for the next while (Mantha, bert, Svech, Cholowski?) so these smaller caphits will take up the available spots.

I did read your post and your condescending attitude aside you didn't, make those points until this post. Sorry bro I can't read your mind.

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PavelValerievichDatsyuk    1,935

PavelValerievichDatsyuk
Posted (edited)

I did read your post and your condescending attitude aside you didn't, make those points until this post. Sorry bro I can't read your mind.

Sorry that I was rude, but I did make those points in my first post. I've bolded them below in the original post. Only part I didn't really specify was Mantha and AA as replacement, but those 2 aren't waiver exempt after this year, so they have to be on the team.

But, to be fair, you were also condescending to me: Your response to me was "So are we just not replacing those players or do their replacements intend to play for free..." We were talking about freeing up capspace for youngins - Unless you're counting on the possibility of us signing another 5.29 mill goalie to backup Mrazek and add another 10.750 in defenders, it seemed unreasonable for you to question the notion that these contract being gone would create significant space and I guess I was annoyed to have to go into the specifics. Apologies, though, my post was a bit rude.

Anyway, truce. This conversation is too far in the future for anyone to know for sure.

Without Ott, Miller, Vitale, Vanek, Jurco & Pulkinen we have 7,254, 167. I think all are questionable to be re-signed.

If you add Smith to that (I do think there's a strong possibility that he's not re-signed or is claimed by Vegas) than we would have 10, 004 167. Plus whatever amount the cap goes up...

Not a lot to worry about here. Tatar gets 2-2.25 mill out of that for a raise. Jurco and Pulks would be cheap. Then you could re-sign Vanek or Smith and I think you'd still have room for a UFA.

It's not really a legitimate concern. In 2 years Green's big contract comes off - That's when Larkin's deal is up and I don't think anyone thinks he's getting more than Green's 6 mill (plus his current .900 - it would have to be)

then in 3 year we lose Kronwall and Howard's big contract's so another 10 mill will be freed up for younger players.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk
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Dabura    12,207

Dabura
Posted
4 minutes ago, HockeytownRules19 said:

He tried to trade him but no one wanted him

Well, hot damn, I'm sold!

Y'know what...Ken Holland manages this organization's assets and cap just fine. Steve Ott? Awesome signing! Drew Miller? We totes need him! Luke Glendening extension? METAL! Darren Helm @ 5 x $3.85M (compare: Kucherov @ 3 x 4.67M)? Brilliant! Losing good young players for absolutely nothing because we need to load our roster with dime-a-dozen grinderbanger veterans? Suh-weeeeet! Jonathan Ericsson never being in danger of being scratched or demoted? killmenow He's...BIG! Jonathan Ericsson's contract? ...BIG! Homegrown veterans being entitled to big contract extensions, because reasons loyalty reasons? That's just good business! Going out of your way to suppress the rise of the very youth that you yourself (Holland) have been telling us for years now (ad nauseam) is the key to this organization's future success? ("There's no hockey store. You've gotta draft and develop and build from within. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.") Amazeballs!

Here's something fun that all you kids at home can do:

  • Look up how many goals Teemu Pulkkinen scored in his first 70 NHL games
  • Look up how many goals Pavel Datsyuk scored in his first 70 NHL games

(Yes, I am totally saying Teemu Pulkkinen is the next Pavel Datsyuk. That is exactly what I am saying.)

I could go on. I could bring numbers into it. I could show you charts and graphs. But I don't want to.

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HockeytownRules19    902

HockeytownRules19
Posted
5 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Well, hot damn, I'm sold!

Y'know what...Ken Holland manages this organization's assets and cap just fine. Steve Ott? Awesome signing! Drew Miller? We totes need him! Luke Glendening extension? METAL! Darren Helm @ 5 x $3.85M (compare: Kucherov @ 3 x 4.67M)? Brilliant! Losing good young players for absolutely nothing because we need to load our roster with dime-a-dozen grinderbanger veterans? Suh-weeeeet! Jonathan Ericsson never being in danger of being scratched or demoted? killmenow He's...BIG! Jonathan Ericsson's contract? ...BIG! Homegrown veterans being entitled to big contract extensions, because reasons loyalty reasons? That's just good business! Going out of your way to suppress the rise of the very youth that you yourself (Holland) have been telling us for years now (ad nauseam) is the key to this organization's future success? ("There's no hockey store. You've gotta draft and develop and build from within. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.") Amazeballs!

Here's something fun that all you kids at home can do:

  • Look up how many goals Teemu Pulkkinen scored in his first 70 NHL games
  • Look up how many goals Pavel Datsyuk scored in his first 70 NHL games

(Yes, I am totally saying Teemu Pulkkinen is the next Pavel Datsyuk. That is exactly what I am saying.)

I could go on. I could bring numbers into it. I could show you charts and graphs. But I don't want to.

I agree that Holland was been bad lately, the only thing I was saying was the angst about getting rid of of a below-average Pulkkinen was crazy... Everything else I agree with you

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DickieDunn    2,571

DickieDunn
Posted

The issue isn't that they waived two guys who probably won't play 200 NHL games in their careers, it's that they're not making sure their two best forward prospects are int he lineup, and they keep putting skilled wingers with Glendening and telling them to play risk free hockey.

 

The top 3 lines should have Zetterberg, Larkin, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Vanek, AA, and Mantha, with one of Abdelkader, Sheahan, or Helm.  The other two should be on the checking line with Glendening.  Then they'd have a line that's capable of the role Trashill wants.  What they shouldn't ever do is put a guy with some skill like Jurco, Pulk, or Frk with Miller and Glendening and tell him to forget how they've played their entire lives, play simple safe hockey just like Miller and Glendening do, then wonder why they're not effective and aren't scoring goals.

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vladdy16    2,154

vladdy16
Posted

A quick heads-up - this thread will be locked in two days due to the start of the season. If you'd like to continue discussing one of the 20 conversations going on here, by all means please start a thread!

There's a new mod function titled "Risk of Closure." I have no idea what that does, but I'm going to apply it to this thread to find out.

 

button_zpstwisvszx.png

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PavelValerievichDatsyuk    1,935

PavelValerievichDatsyuk
Posted
22 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Bob Duff on WDFN.

Btw, I told you Suter wanted to play here. 

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/bob-duff-speaks-with-wdfns-sheppard?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Holland needs to be fired.

In other news, Helm sure is fast.

Right after the "Suter wanted to play here" part he says Suter's girlfriend didn't want to come to Detroit and that was the deal breaker. Unless you're thinking that Holland should have sabotaged Suter's relationship, I don't see how you can connect it as a fault of the GM.

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LeftWinger    4,951

LeftWinger
Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Right after the "Suter wanted to play here" part he says Suter's girlfriend didn't want to come to Detroit and that was the deal breaker. Unless you're thinking that Holland should have sabotaged Suter's relationship, I don't see how you can connect it as a fault of the GM.

No, I understand that. I'm just saying that a lot of folks here said that it was never out there that Suter preferred Detroit as a team. I know the story goes we lost out to family, but there was always an argument that Suter never said he wanted to be here, it was always Minnesota. 

 

The fire Holland part is to stay with the theme of what happened this weekend. And people thought Trump had a bad weekend!

Edited by LeftWinger
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LeftWinger    4,951

LeftWinger
Posted (edited)

I cannot figure out how to paste a link on here, but www.todaysslapshot.Com says the Red Wings recalled G Pasquale today.for the story go to website and click on the "latest " tab.

 

Possible trade coming? If so, I figured Coreau would be the call up though. Not quite sure what this explanation means. 

Quote

It’s important to note, of course, that the recall isn’t due to the injury of either Petr Mrazek or Jimmy Howard ahead of the start of the regular season. Instead, the recall is specifically to maximize cap space for the Red Wings, who are playing a dangerous juggling act this year with players on long-term injured reserve and an excess of cap space.

Edited by LeftWinger

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derblaueClaus    1,668

derblaueClaus
Posted
25 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I cannot figure out how to paste a link on here, but www.todaysslapshot.Com says the Red Wings recalled G Pasquale today.for the story go to website and click on the "latest " tab.

 

Possible trade coming? If so, I figured Coreau would be the call up though. Not quite sure what this explanation means. 

Twitter also has you covered. ;)

Quote

Detroit Red Wings ‏@DetroitRedWings
UPDATE: The #RedWings today recalled G Edward Pasquale from the @griffinshockey and assigned C Ben Street to GRG

Weird indeed, I'm eager to see what comes out of it.

 

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krsmith17    7,191

krsmith17
Posted

The move was made to get cap compliant before the 5:00pm EST deadline, nothing more. Even with Franzen, Jurco and Vitale on LTIR we were slightly over the cap. We sent Street down ($600K) and called up Pasquale ($575K). We now have a whopping $1,667 in cap space...

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Buppy    1,720

Buppy
Posted
6 hours ago, Dabura said:

Well, hot damn, I'm sold!

Y'know what...Ken Holland manages this organization's assets and cap just fine. Steve Ott? Awesome signing! Drew Miller? We totes need him! Luke Glendening extension? METAL! Darren Helm @ 5 x $3.85M (compare: Kucherov @ 3 x 4.67M)? Brilliant! Losing good young players for absolutely nothing because we need to load our roster with dime-a-dozen grinderbanger veterans? Suh-weeeeet! Jonathan Ericsson never being in danger of being scratched or demoted? killmenow He's...BIG! Jonathan Ericsson's contract? ...BIG! Homegrown veterans being entitled to big contract extensions, because reasons loyalty reasons? That's just good business! Going out of your way to suppress the rise of the very youth that you yourself (Holland) have been telling us for years now (ad nauseam) is the key to this organization's future success? ("There's no hockey store. You've gotta draft and develop and build from within. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.") Amazeballs!

....

Entertaining bit of histrionics there. But in regards to the youth, I think there's something people are over-looking. We waived Pulk and Frk in order to keep the waiver-exempt AA. To me, that means that at least Holland thinks AA should be playing, which would almost certainly mean Ott or Miller sitting. Who knows if Blash feels the same way, but I'd assume so. Probably more of a positive than if we'd demoted AA and stuck Pulk in the pressbox.

Also, you don't "build" with secondary players (or worse). We are building on the backs of Larkin, and Mrazek, and (for lack of a better option atm) Dekeyser, maybe AA. Hopefully in the near future we'll find at least a couple more to join that foundation. For secondary and depth players, it isn't that important where they come from. Old, young, drafted, UFA. Whatever. With Tatar, Nyquist, Abby, etc. we might even say our secondary players are already built as well as can be expected.

6 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

The issue isn't that they waived two guys who probably won't play 200 NHL games in their careers, it's that they're not making sure their two best forward prospects are int he lineup, and they keep putting skilled wingers with Glendening and telling them to play risk free hockey.

The top 3 lines should have Zetterberg, Larkin, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Vanek, AA, and Mantha, with one of Abdelkader, Sheahan, or Helm.  The other two should be on the checking line with Glendening.  Then they'd have a line that's capable of the role Trashill wants.  What they shouldn't ever do is put a guy with some skill like Jurco, Pulk, or Frk with Miller and Glendening and tell him to forget how they've played their entire lives, play simple safe hockey just like Miller and Glendening do, then wonder why they're not effective and aren't scoring goals.

The only skilled winger that's played significantly with Glendening was Jurco. And that was because they had no other place to put him. Also, Abby and Sheahan are probably better scorers right now than what Mantha could do. Maybe even Helm. I think very highly of AA (and Pulk for what it's worth now), but I'm not sure they'd be better scorers either. 

1 hour ago, BadgerBob said:

Thought this was interesting, Chychrun made the Yotes roster:

Yeah, it's interesting. Still too early to judge, and shouldn't be judged in hindsight anyway, but given how things have gone since that deal we might have been better off passing.

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BadgerBob    297

BadgerBob
Posted
1 hour ago, Buppy said:

Yeah, it's interesting. Still too early to judge, and shouldn't be judged in hindsight anyway, but given how things have gone since that deal we might have been better off passing.

True, it is early. I was really high on Chychrun and was hoping we'd pick him. Personally, I think he's going to be really good. I'll be paying close attention to Cholowski though since he'll be playing about an hour away. 

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