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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

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Ya, Trouba and Fowler will somehow get traded to Pitt or Chicago or Tampa and we'll be stuck with E, Nyquist, Howard, Helm and the rest of the average and broken players again....oh ya, and at the highest payroll in the league to boot! Holland is the best GM?

Funny fact, Detroit had two 3rd rounds picks for 2017 and traded one for Sadowy. The opted to trade their pick and keep Toronto's because they figured it would be a higher pick in the 3rd round. Guarantee, Toronto finishes higher than us, and even that idea backfires!

Face it guys, unless our kids get a shot and become above average to great players, we are in for some s***ty season's. Unless Holland has a fire sale at the deadline and just dumps all these stupid ass overpaid salaries for picks and then has room for UFA upgrades. If we are out of the playoffs, and I mean OUT, not battling for a spot around deadline, there better be a fire sale of these stupid contracts...Nyquist, Helm, Howard, Ericsson, I'd even offer disney.com up to Babcock for a pick...

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Speaking of Vegas, this is my protected list as our roster stands right now:

Nielsen (obviously)

Zetterberg (because he is the Captain, I honestly wouldn't waste it on him, but I know he will be protected)

Abby

Tatar

Sheahan

Mantha

AA

DD

XO

Marchy

Mrazek

...that's it. Some may argue Nyquist or Helm over Sheahan, I guess if Helm were protected (which Holland loves him so he probably will be) over Sheahan, no biggie, but I guess the bigger debate is Nyquist or Helm. NO WAY I leave either one of AA or Mantha unprotected. By knowing Holland's dumb ass this will be his list:

Nielsen

Z

Helm

Nyquist

Abby

Tatar

Glendening

DD

Kronwall

Ericsson

Mrazek

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Leafs will finish higher than us this season? Not a chance. I'll take that bet any day...

Also, please stop lumping Nyquist in with the useless and / or overpaid players. He's neither and you're the only person that would suggest that he is. Just another player you're going to inexplicably hate on forever I guess...

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If you don't think E can be moved, then why do you think Howard can be? Even for two years, that's a combined $10+ million for a HUGE question mark at the position you don't want questions at, especially bringing it in voluntarily. Then again, maybe he'll be able to turn his problems around this season with the time and the low pressure having a backup role allows, and teams will come calling. I think the likely scenario is he gets claimed in the expansion draft if anything though.

I believe Howard is a much better goalie then E is a D-man in 2016, plus after this season Howard will have 2 years left on his contract opposed to E having 3 years left. If Howard shows this year that he is still a legit starting goalie, I could easily see a team taking a chance on him. Secondly, with Mrazek, we just don't need him, so if Howard has a great year, that increases his value. E on the other hand IMO is going to keep regressing and I cant see a team trading for a guy who by that time will likely be solidified as a third pairing guy with a 4mil+ cap hit for 3 years, it's just a completely different situation. Not to mention, if E proves me wrong and becomes a top pairing guy again which could happen, unlike Howard, Holland will keep him. E plays good we keep him, E plays bad we have to keep him. That's why I don't see E being moved.

Also, when I say I see him being moved, I do include the expansion draft in that statement. Las Vegas will need to hit the cap floor, and if they bring on a young goalie, they are going to want a vet to play along side him. Howard gives them cap for a short period of time, and I think he could really help a youngster.

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is it long yes? Guy will be 36 by then but Nielsen will be 38.

It's still funny because Boston needs to rebuild the defense big Z won't tower it forever.

...but Nielsen doesn't play the game that Backes still plays, despite being broken. So, Nielsen will probably still have some legs.

Chara is also ALREADY a former shell of himself. Lucky for Boston, he only has this year and next left on his contract.

Also, how many more days before this season starts... Lefty's starting to get salty.

He needs some games STAT. :lol:

Edited by e_prime

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there better be a fire sale of these stupid contracts...Nyquist, Helm, Howard, Ericsson, I'd even offer disney.com up to Babcock for a pick...

Can you explain your hate for Nyquist? I really don't get it. They guy has been one of our best offensive players over the past 3 years, and he has a pretty small cap-hit for what he does. If he was getting 7 or 8 mil per year, then I would get it.

He had a down year last year, but its not like he was garbage or anything. Pretty much every fantasy magazine I have read this year have him as our leading scorer getting around 30 goals. Not bad for a 4.5 mil cap hit. Is it the Swedish thing?

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Leafs will finish higher than us this season? Not a chance. I'll take that bet any day...

Also, please stop lumping Nyquist in with the useless and / or overpaid players. He's neither and you're the only person that would suggest that he is. Just another player you're going to inexplicably hate on forever I guess...

I always lump Nyquist in there because Tatar is better than he is and of the two Nyquist should be traded to clear cap space. Tatar will get a very similar contract and we cannot have both of them making nearly $5M each. And yes he is just average, he is nowhere near above average or great. But most of the team is average at best, yet we have the highest payroll for average, broken and below average players. That is why Nielsen and Vanek will be among the leaders in scoring. Beyond those two and Larkin and Abby for what he brings to the table, we don't have much to chew on. AA and Mantha aren't going to see enough ice to even show what they really are. Here's what our lineup should be:

Tatar - Nielsen - Abby

Z - Larkin - Vanek

Nyquist - AA - Mantha

Jurco - Glenny - Sheahan

Frk

DD - Smith

XO - Green

Kronwall - Marchenko

Sproul

Mrazek

Coreau

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Can you explain your hate for Nyquist? I really don't get it. They guy has been one of our best offensive players over the past 3 years, and he has a pretty small cap-hit for what he does. If he was getting 7 or 8 mil per year, then I would get it.

He had a down year last year, but its not like he was garbage or anything. Pretty much every fantasy magazine I have read this year have him as our leading scorer getting around 30 goals. Not bad for a 4.5 mil cap hit. Is it the Swedish thing?

It's because he's Swedish.

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For all our worries going into the season on D my biggest fear is that Kronner may be done, and we will be in the mire on the back end if he is. Too many injuries lately and I fear they are catching up with him.

well at least with that, nothing a little LTIR won't fix...for him personally and us cap-wise.

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It's because he's Swedish.

Ya and that's why I hate Howard and Helm.

He's been an ok scorer, sure, but he is just average, as is most the team, yet we have the highest payroll in the NHL and his contract is part of that. I believe Abby is overpaid too, but he bring other aspects to the team that Nyquist doesn't. Gus isn't the only one overpaid, there are plenty, but when it comes to clearing space to improve the team, Nyquist is on that list to go in my opinion. Tatar, used properly, is better and of the two, he gets to stay. If they could cut other fat and afford to keep both PLUS upgrade our D? I'm all for it. I'd rather have Nyquist at $4.75 than Helm at $3.8M...how's that for being bias towards Swedes?

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Because you have a history of bs arguments against Swedes. That's why.

Ok scorer?? 28 goals, 27 goals and 17 goals in a year where entire teams scoring was down. Lmao at "ok scorer". When was the last time we had players score 28 and 27 goals two years in a row on our team?

And you do realize Tatar is about to get a fatter check than Nyquist is when his contract renews right?

And Abdekader isn't overpaid. This has been disproved in these forums time and again. Do we need to do it again?

Edited by kickazz

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I know Tatar is going to get paid, thus the reason to trim more fat! I already said, if they could trim it and keep both, that'd be Jim Dandy. But if one of those two are to be traded, I think Nyquist should go because Tatar is better.

Also, like I just said, I'd keep Nyquist and dump Helm in an instant.

It has nothing to do with being Swedish, I never had an issue with Lidstrom or Holmstrom, Samuelsson (the first time) or even Gustavsson in net. I have no issue with a healthy Kronwall. It just happens that three of my least favorite players on this team are Nyquist, Ericsson and Franzen. But, they aren't the only players I think we could dump and not miss a beat, Helm and Howard and sometimes Smith as well.

I have a history of arguments against Franzen, Nyquist and Ericsson along with Hudler, Helm, Ericsson, Howard, Smith, Cleary, KFQ and Kindl. Not just Swedes, not just Euro's...

Edited by LeftWinger

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I love how the off-season reports of Kronwall's injury suddenly make him the worst defenseman in the NHL. Pretty safe bet he will still be a much better option in the top 4 then Ouellette and Marchenko

Of course he will but it would be unfair to him to expect to play top 4 minutes with 2 bad knees. Nobody knows how his knees will hold up over the long grind of an NHL season.

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I hope he stays out and gets 100% healthy. For obvious reasons that a healthy Kronwall is a better Kronwall. But also we'll be able to get a good look at two of the three kids on D. Especially Sproul. I wish we could keep all 3 up somehow.

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as we stand, they only have $6.7M available cap next season. Tatar will get Nyquist money, Smith will get at least $4M, not even counting Jurco, Pulkkinen or any other "kid" they bring up. Unless they dump Howard AND Ericsson they will have no room to do even have the same team they have now.

Buyout would have E at a cap hit of $1.6M, $1.3M, $1.3M, $1.3M, $1.3M, $1.3M and Howard at $1.8M, $2.3M, $1.5M, $1.5M.

Thats a lot of years to pay someone to not be here, but if neither are claimed and we cannot trade them, in order to be able to have a team and not waive ALL the kids without exemptions, this is the only choice.

Of course that's still counting Franzen's money, but it would be the most beneficial to rid ourselves of E and Howard. Nyquist would help too, but that would most likely involve cap coming back in trade, so that would wash.

We also have to make sure we hold some money for two years from now when Larkin is going to get every bit of at least $5M and Mrazek will get $6M....s*** man, I didn't even real all the contracts due up the next couple of years, Holland better hope his "kids" are the answer because with the god awful contracts he has given out, and will no doubt give again, he will have ZERO room for UFA upgrades the next couple of seasons. We already know he won't trade players away for upgrades, so that's out the window.

Good thing we have our core of Nielsen Abdelkader Helm and Glendening all locked up!

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Good thing we have our core of Nielsen Abdelkader Helm and Glendening all locked up!

You can hate all you want. I'm quite happy to have those players for the foreseeable future.

Can't wait till the season starts so the doom and gloomers can stop making up things to moan about. We're already talking about a cap crunch when Larkins contract is up? Christ...

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You can hate all you want. I'm quite happy to have those players for the foreseeable future.

Can't wait till the season starts so the doom and gloomers can stop making up things to moan about. We're already talking about a cap crunch when Larkins contract is up? Christ...

That's a legitimate concern, with the way Holland over pays in both dollars and term for infinitely replaceable players. Helm, Glendening, Ericsson, Howard and the like. All decent NHLERS who are over signed, the thought being they would or will turn out to ge bargins a year or two into the deal, hasn't happened yet and likely won't.

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as we stand, they only have $6.7M available cap next season. Tatar will get Nyquist money, Smith will get at least $4M, not even counting Jurco, Pulkkinen or any other "kid" they bring up. Unless they dump Howard AND Ericsson they will have no room to do even have the same team they have now.

Thats a lot of years to pay someone to not be here, but if neither are claimed and we cannot trade them, in order to be able to have a team and not waive ALL the kids without exemptions, this is the only choice.

We also have to make sure we hold some money for two years from now when Larkin is going to get every bit of at least $5M and Mrazek will get $6M....s*** man, I didn't even real all the contracts due up the next couple of years, Holland better hope his "kids" are the answer because with the god awful contracts he has given out, and will no doubt give again, he will have ZERO room for UFA upgrades the next couple of seasons. We already know he won't trade players away for upgrades, so that's out the window.

Without Ott, Miller, Vitale, Vanek, Jurco & Pulkinen we have 7,254, 167. I think all are questionable to be re-signed.

If you add Smith to that (I do think there's a strong possibility that he's not re-signed or is claimed by Vegas) than we would have 10, 004 167. Plus whatever amount the cap goes up...

Not a lot to worry about here. Tatar gets 2-2.25 mill out of that for a raise. Jurco and Pulks would be cheap. Then you could re-sign Vanek or Smith and I think you'd still have room for a UFA.

That's a legitimate concern, with the way Holland over pays in both dollars and term for infinitely replaceable players. Helm, Glendening, Ericsson, Howard and the like. All decent NHLERS who are over signed, the thought being they would or will turn out to ge bargins a year or two into the deal, hasn't happened yet and likely won't.

It's not really a legitimate concern. In 2 years Green's big contract comes off - That's when Larkin's deal is up and I don't think anyone thinks he's getting more than Green's 6 mill (plus his current .900 - it would have to be)

then in 3 year we lose Kronwall and Howard's big contract's so another 10 mill will be freed up for younger players.

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You can hate all you want. I'm quite happy to have those players for the foreseeable future.

Can't wait till the season starts so the doom and gloomers can stop making up things to moan about. We're already talking about a cap crunch when Larkins contract is up? Christ...

and you can act fanboyish all you want, since you are happy with every move of course you call everyone who sees a flaw in the masters plan a hater.....Although not having a number 1 center, number 1 defenseman and no star (not even talking about superstars) on the team would have most realistic people concerned.

The Nielsen contract is too long for what he brings, period. This is a guy who can work great behind a stud center and with a sniper on his line. Do the Wings have that ? No. It's the same BS as the Ericson in Vancouver signing he doesn't help them long-term in fact he is going to hurt their chances Patrick, Liljekren by the time the canucks could be good again, he will be a 6 mill anchor...just like Nielsen will be.

Still amazed that Anaheim and Detroit can't seem to workout a deal, ducks are screaming for more offense and wings are screaming for a quality defenseman. Either Holland and Murray really can't stand each other or Anaheim has a lower internal budget than some of us believe

p.s.: wanna know what happens to teams that continuously refuse to accept roster flaws..look no further than the Leafs before Shanahan brought in Babcock, Lou and that drafting guru and of course the canucks Boa Horvat , Tanev and then what?...yep.

Edited by frankgrimes

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I still think we could benefit by getting Fowler. If we could deal about $4M in contract(s) to a team for a pick, then acquire Fowler, possibly with said draft pick.

I sure wish we could dump Howard or E for that draft pick...

http://www.prohockeyrumors.com/2016/10/allowed-before-expansion.html

Very interesting...but if they acquire someone at the trade deadline, does that player just take the rest of the season off?

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Pav, Vegas would be stupid to claim any pending UFA. The draft is in June, Smith becomes a UFA July 1. They would waste a pick by selecting a player who could very well walk a couple of weeks later.

Yeah, my mistake. I do think Smith there's a big chance that Smith won't be back, though. I guess it would be through free agency,

I'm kind of indifferent about him personally - I just don't think the team has shown much love for him.

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I watched the game today and it just looked as though the kids out there were better than he was. If they are going to keep him, i hope he plays better. If not, he'll find himself #7 or maybe even waived. He didn't look bad by any means, but the kids just looked like they had more jump. Of course they're trying to earn a spot, so they should be playing their hardest. But really, so should he...along with erection.

If they cant move erection along with Howard, they may be able to move Smith for a pick snd then also move howard to make some room.

Edited by LeftWinger

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