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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

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Very interesting...but if they acquire someone at the trade deadline, does that player just take the rest of the season off?

The article says "up to three weeks before the expansion draft". So early June probably. Possibly after the finals end even.

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Was just reading up on the rules for the Vegas expansion draft. The summer after their first season they are guaranteed no lower than the 6th overall pick in Round 1, and will pick third in every round after that. What if the team they assemble somehow gels and makes the playoffs? Unlikely, I know. But what if? Should they still get those picks? I think if they make the playoffs, they should pick according to where they get knocked out. If not, then they get the picks.

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Was just reading up on the rules for the Vegas expansion draft. The summer after their first season they are guaranteed no lower than the 6th overall pick in Round 1, and will pick third in every round after that. What if the team they assemble somehow gels and makes the playoffs? Unlikely, I know. But what if? Should they still get those picks? I think if they make the playoffs, they should pick according to where they get knocked out. If not, then they get the picks.

That's highly unlikely it's going to be a team that needs to find chemistry because they'll be build up of 20 different players that never played together before. Unless they somehow click in a ridiculous short fashion there is no way Vegas (insert name) is going to be a playoff team in the first season. They won't have any superstars or stars because nobody is making them available. They'll be a better Atlanta Trashers version.

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The article says "up to three weeks before the expansion draft". So early June probably. Possibly after the finals end even.

They changed the title of the article, lol! When i first posted, the title said "Vegas could be a buyer at the 2017 Trade Deadline..."

Heres the original tweet:

https://twitter.com/prohockeyrumors/status/782740279598145536

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Without Ott, Miller, Vitale, Vanek, Jurco & Pulkinen we have 7,254, 167. I think all are questionable to be re-signed.

If you add Smith to that (I do think there's a strong possibility that he's not re-signed or is claimed by Vegas) than we would have 10, 004 167. Plus whatever amount the cap goes up...

Not a lot to worry about here. Tatar gets 2-2.25 mill out of that for a raise. Jurco and Pulks would be cheap. Then you could re-sign Vanek or Smith and I think you'd still have room for a UFA.

It's not really a legitimate concern. In 2 years Green's big contract comes off - That's when Larkin's deal is up and I don't think anyone thinks he's getting more than Green's 6 mill (plus his current .900 - it would have to be)

then in 3 year we lose Kronwall and Howard's big contract's so another 10 mill will be freed up for younger players.

So are we just not replacing those players or do their replacements intend to play for free... their contracts come off the booKS but someone's gotta fill those skates.

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Without Ott, Miller, Vitale, Vanek, Jurco & Pulkinen we have 7,254, 167. I think all are questionable to be re-signed.

If you add Smith to that (I do think there's a strong possibility that he's not re-signed or is claimed by Vegas) than we would have 10, 004 167. Plus whatever amount the cap goes up...

Not a lot to worry about here. Tatar gets 2-2.25 mill out of that for a raise. Jurco and Pulks would be cheap. Then you could re-sign Vanek or Smith and I think you'd still have room for a UFA.

It's not really a legitimate concern. In 2 years Green's big contract comes off - That's when Larkin's deal is up and I don't think anyone thinks he's getting more than Green's 6 mill (plus his current .900 - it would have to be)

then in 3 year we lose Kronwall and Howard's big contract's so another 10 mill will be freed up for younger players.

not counting Franzen, we have $10.6M roughly and that includes $0 for Tatar since his contract will be off the books, so he will get every bit of Nyquist's $4.75, if not $5M of that $10M. That only leaves $5M (give or take $250k) to fill 7 other open roster spots. Go to capfriendly.com and you will see all the numbers and players. IF they re-sign Smith, expect him to get a raise as well. No doubt about it, they have to get rid of some salary just to ice a complete team next season. So don't expect any splash's come July 1, 2017 unless they sell of some contracts at the deadline...but they won't because Holland.

Edited by LeftWinger

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So are we just not replacing those players or do their replacements intend to play for free... their contracts come off the booKS but someone's gotta fill those skates.

If you re-read my post, I added up the available cap space for next year and then allotted to players signing - I didn't just subtract those player's caphit

One I didn't include, but I thought was obvious was that Mantha will be on the team next year taking up a roster spot with a low caphit. If Miller and Ott aren't back, Jurco could take 1 spot and the other is open for Callahan or Bertuzzi or some other prospect (or that could be where the UFA money goes) If Smith wasn't re-signed, either Sproul takes a spot (if he's not claimed) or maybe Russo (team seems high on him) or that's where the extra UFA money goes.

As for Howard, It's been written that the organization plans to have Coreau succeed him as the backup (with a small caphit). As for who is in the place of Green and Kronwall, those are big holes, but - as I said in the previous post - our big re-signees in the next few years (Larkin and Tatar) won't take up the combined caphit (around 16 million) of these 3 big contracts, so there will money to spend on UFA Dmen or some other replacements.

Anyway, bottom line is I don't see why there's this fear of a cap crunch. This year, due to Dats contract being gone, we had enough to add 3 UFAs (Vanek, Ott, Neilson). We have big contract coming off for the next few years and that will take care of raises and we're trying to bring prospects onto the team for the next while (Mantha, bert, Svech, Cholowski?) so these smaller caphits will take up the available spots.

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not counting Franzen, we have $10.6M roughly and that includes $0 for Tatar since his contract will be off the books, so he will get every bit of Nyquist's $4.75, if not $5M of that $10M. That only leaves $5M (give or take $250k) to fill 7 other open roster spots. Go to capfriendly.com and you will see all the numbers and players. IF they re-sign Smith, expect him to get a raise as well. No doubt about it, they have to get rid of some salary just to ice a complete team next season. So don't expect any splash's come July 1, 2017 unless they sell of some contracts at the deadline...but they won't because Holland.

With my previous calculation, I think I forgot to consider that Vitale's going to LTIR and that we're over the cap.

Hmm, it is closer than I thought with the current cap and would maybe force Smith out in the unlikely situation that the cap stayed the same, but still do-able:

10,708,333 for 7 roster spots that capfriendly has open next year:

-5 Tatar

-.863,333 Mantha (already signed for next 2 years)

-1.450 XO (marchenko's deal - I think it's a bit generous)

-.9 AA (not sure what he gets on his next deal - all depends on how much he plays this year)

-.9 Jurco (RFA)

-.9 Pulk (RFA)

-.625 Sproul (already signed for next 2 years)

=.070 left over

But the cap has gone up at least 1.75 mill the past couple years so there might be room for Smith or Vanek or a UFA. If the cap goes back to a larger increase - like 09-12 - then there would definitely be room.

Also, we don't know who will be claimed by Vegas. Sheahan?, Howard? Anyway, that would clear up cap space.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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You can hate all you want. I'm quite happy to have those players for the foreseeable future.

Can't wait till the season starts so the doom and gloomers can stop making up things to moan about. We're already talking about a cap crunch when Larkins contract is up? Christ...

Don't take in personally, some just like to be over the top negative and cynical and make everything out to be doom and gloom then try to pass it off as being "realists". Extreme in either direction is not a good way to look at things.

I think this is just a natural reaction of some who got so accustomed to seeing the Wings dominate for 20 years, that now that they are not are essentially acting out.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think everything Holland does is perfect, and I do think that adding a 1A d-man is essential (crossing my fingers that they trade for Trouba) but this team is not a pile of garbage because of Abby, Helm and Glendening like some will make you believe. Personally, I am excited about this team with a core of Larkin, Mrazek, DD and co. moving forward. Do I wish the aforementioned players were signed for a few less years/dollars, of course, but I don't think it breaks us.

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Don't take in personally, some just like to be over the top negative and cynical and make everything out to be doom and gloom then try to pass it off as being "realists". Extreme in either direction is not a good way to look at things.

I think this is just a natural reaction of some who got so accustomed to seeing the Wings dominate for 20 years, that now that they are not are essentially acting out.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think everything Holland does is perfect, and I do think that adding a 1A d-man is essential (crossing my fingers that they trade for Trouba) but this team is not a pile of garbage because of Abby, Helm and Glendening like some will make you believe. Personally, I am excited about this team with a core of Larkin, Mrazek, DD and co. moving forward. Do I wish the aforementioned players were signed for a few less years/dollars, of course, but I don't think it breaks us.

It probably wouldn't bother me so much if it wasn't the same people with the same absurd predictions/complaints.

Every single year...

I used to try and actually engage in conversation with them but found that a complete waste of time.

I really do commend yourself and Krsmith and PVD and so many others for challenging them and saying what so many of us are thinking so much of the time. You guys have tremendous patience.

Also...just because someone disagrees with an extreme view (pessimist/realist) doesn't make them the opposite (fanboy/apologist). This isn't a world of extremes. Well then again... maybe some of you are much more used to that in the U.S. I disagree with many of Holland's decision's and even some of the core beliefs of the franchise.

Regardless I CANNOT wait for this season to start. Really excited. So many opportunities for new guys and unanswered questions with this team and roster.

I think we can be one of the fastest teams in the league and really surprise some people.

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Also...just because someone disagrees with an extreme view (pessimist/realist) doesn't make them the opposite (fanboy/apologist). This isn't a world of extremes. Well then again...

I didn't think your comments came across this way and to be fair I dont think many on these boards do. The majority of the people who are pretty level headed on this board have the consensus that they are excited for the future with all the young talent we have coming up, but I dont think any are saying things to extreme's (ie. guaranteeing championships, refusing to acknowledge mistakes etc.). Also, when it does come to mistakes, alot of people are experts when they look at things in hindsight. We could all build winners if we had a crystal ball lol.

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http://mynhltraderumors.com/2016-17-top-10-detroit-red-wings-prospects/2016/10/03/

Odd that they have XO in this list, but not Sproul...

Alot of people are down on Sproul, this doesn't shock me. This is a make or break it year for him.

XO is a player I personally really like. I haven't seen anything of him in the AHL, but from what I have seen on the Wings, I thing he is a good third pairing d-man, and I really like his passing ability. I can think of quite a few really nice passes he has made that led to goals, something we dont see from our D often lol.

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If you re-read my post, I added up the available cap space for next year and then allotted to players signing - I didn't just subtract those player's caphit

One I didn't include, but I thought was obvious was that Mantha will be on the team next year taking up a roster spot with a low caphit. If Miller and Ott aren't back, Jurco could take 1 spot and the other is open for Callahan or Bertuzzi or some other prospect (or that could be where the UFA money goes) If Smith wasn't re-signed, either Sproul takes a spot (if he's not claimed) or maybe Russo (team seems high on him) or that's where the extra UFA money goes.

As for Howard, It's been written that the organization plans to have Coreau succeed him as the backup (with a small caphit). As for who is in the place of Green and Kronwall, those are big holes, but - as I said in the previous post - our big re-signees in the next few years (Larkin and Tatar) won't take up the combined caphit (around 16 million) of these 3 big contracts, so there will money to spend on UFA Dmen or some other replacements.

Anyway, bottom line is I don't see why there's this fear of a cap crunch. This year, due to Dats contract being gone, we had enough to add 3 UFAs (Vanek, Ott, Neilson). We have big contract coming off for the next few years and that will take care of raises and we're trying to bring prospects onto the team for the next while (Mantha, bert, Svech, Cholowski?) so these smaller caphits will take up the available spots.

I did read your post and your condescending attitude aside you didn't, make those points until this post. Sorry bro I can't read your mind.

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I did read your post and your condescending attitude aside you didn't, make those points until this post. Sorry bro I can't read your mind.

Sorry that I was rude, but I did make those points in my first post. I've bolded them below in the original post. Only part I didn't really specify was Mantha and AA as replacement, but those 2 aren't waiver exempt after this year, so they have to be on the team.

But, to be fair, you were also condescending to me: Your response to me was "So are we just not replacing those players or do their replacements intend to play for free..." We were talking about freeing up capspace for youngins - Unless you're counting on the possibility of us signing another 5.29 mill goalie to backup Mrazek and add another 10.750 in defenders, it seemed unreasonable for you to question the notion that these contract being gone would create significant space and I guess I was annoyed to have to go into the specifics. Apologies, though, my post was a bit rude.

Anyway, truce. This conversation is too far in the future for anyone to know for sure.

Without Ott, Miller, Vitale, Vanek, Jurco & Pulkinen we have 7,254, 167. I think all are questionable to be re-signed.

If you add Smith to that (I do think there's a strong possibility that he's not re-signed or is claimed by Vegas) than we would have 10, 004 167. Plus whatever amount the cap goes up...

Not a lot to worry about here. Tatar gets 2-2.25 mill out of that for a raise. Jurco and Pulks would be cheap. Then you could re-sign Vanek or Smith and I think you'd still have room for a UFA.

It's not really a legitimate concern. In 2 years Green's big contract comes off - That's when Larkin's deal is up and I don't think anyone thinks he's getting more than Green's 6 mill (plus his current .900 - it would have to be)

then in 3 year we lose Kronwall and Howard's big contract's so another 10 mill will be freed up for younger players.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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4 minutes ago, HockeytownRules19 said:

He tried to trade him but no one wanted him

Well, hot damn, I'm sold!

Y'know what...Ken Holland manages this organization's assets and cap just fine. Steve Ott? Awesome signing! Drew Miller? We totes need him! Luke Glendening extension? METAL! Darren Helm @ 5 x $3.85M (compare: Kucherov @ 3 x 4.67M)? Brilliant! Losing good young players for absolutely nothing because we need to load our roster with dime-a-dozen grinderbanger veterans? Suh-weeeeet! Jonathan Ericsson never being in danger of being scratched or demoted? killmenow He's...BIG! Jonathan Ericsson's contract? ...BIG! Homegrown veterans being entitled to big contract extensions, because reasons loyalty reasons? That's just good business! Going out of your way to suppress the rise of the very youth that you yourself (Holland) have been telling us for years now (ad nauseam) is the key to this organization's future success? ("There's no hockey store. You've gotta draft and develop and build from within. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.") Amazeballs!

Here's something fun that all you kids at home can do:

  • Look up how many goals Teemu Pulkkinen scored in his first 70 NHL games
  • Look up how many goals Pavel Datsyuk scored in his first 70 NHL games

(Yes, I am totally saying Teemu Pulkkinen is the next Pavel Datsyuk. That is exactly what I am saying.)

I could go on. I could bring numbers into it. I could show you charts and graphs. But I don't want to.

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5 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Well, hot damn, I'm sold!

Y'know what...Ken Holland manages this organization's assets and cap just fine. Steve Ott? Awesome signing! Drew Miller? We totes need him! Luke Glendening extension? METAL! Darren Helm @ 5 x $3.85M (compare: Kucherov @ 3 x 4.67M)? Brilliant! Losing good young players for absolutely nothing because we need to load our roster with dime-a-dozen grinderbanger veterans? Suh-weeeeet! Jonathan Ericsson never being in danger of being scratched or demoted? killmenow He's...BIG! Jonathan Ericsson's contract? ...BIG! Homegrown veterans being entitled to big contract extensions, because reasons loyalty reasons? That's just good business! Going out of your way to suppress the rise of the very youth that you yourself (Holland) have been telling us for years now (ad nauseam) is the key to this organization's future success? ("There's no hockey store. You've gotta draft and develop and build from within. blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.") Amazeballs!

Here's something fun that all you kids at home can do:

  • Look up how many goals Teemu Pulkkinen scored in his first 70 NHL games
  • Look up how many goals Pavel Datsyuk scored in his first 70 NHL games

(Yes, I am totally saying Teemu Pulkkinen is the next Pavel Datsyuk. That is exactly what I am saying.)

I could go on. I could bring numbers into it. I could show you charts and graphs. But I don't want to.

I agree that Holland was been bad lately, the only thing I was saying was the angst about getting rid of of a below-average Pulkkinen was crazy... Everything else I agree with you

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The issue isn't that they waived two guys who probably won't play 200 NHL games in their careers, it's that they're not making sure their two best forward prospects are int he lineup, and they keep putting skilled wingers with Glendening and telling them to play risk free hockey.

 

The top 3 lines should have Zetterberg, Larkin, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Vanek, AA, and Mantha, with one of Abdelkader, Sheahan, or Helm.  The other two should be on the checking line with Glendening.  Then they'd have a line that's capable of the role Trashill wants.  What they shouldn't ever do is put a guy with some skill like Jurco, Pulk, or Frk with Miller and Glendening and tell him to forget how they've played their entire lives, play simple safe hockey just like Miller and Glendening do, then wonder why they're not effective and aren't scoring goals.

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A quick heads-up - this thread will be locked in two days due to the start of the season. If you'd like to continue discussing one of the 20 conversations going on here, by all means please start a thread!

There's a new mod function titled "Risk of Closure." I have no idea what that does, but I'm going to apply it to this thread to find out.

 

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22 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Bob Duff on WDFN.

Btw, I told you Suter wanted to play here. 

http://kuklaskorner.com/tmr/comments/bob-duff-speaks-with-wdfns-sheppard?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Holland needs to be fired.

In other news, Helm sure is fast.

Right after the "Suter wanted to play here" part he says Suter's girlfriend didn't want to come to Detroit and that was the deal breaker. Unless you're thinking that Holland should have sabotaged Suter's relationship, I don't see how you can connect it as a fault of the GM.

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