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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

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I don't mind 7 year deals depending on the players age and as long as the term keep the AAV low.

Taking max contracts off the table basically ensures you'll never sign a quality FA again.

Edited by kipwinger

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This is my official offseason wish list. None of it will happen, but a boy can dream.

1. Datyuk's contract+Pulkkinen to whomever for the cap relief.

2. Let Richards, Quincey, Miller, and Andersson walk.

3. Draft best available offensive defenseman.

4. Sign Alexander Radulov 3 years, 4.5 million.

5. Sign Kyle Okposo, 7 years, 5.5 million

6. Trade Gustav Nyquist and some comgination of Jurco, Ouellet, and Sproul for Cam Fowler.

7, Re-sign Darren Helm, 7 years, 3.5 million.

8. Promote Mantha and Callahan and Tangredi

Radulov-Larkin-Abby

Tatar-AA-Okposo

Z-Sheahan-Mantha

Helm-Glendening-Callahan

Tangredi

Fowler-Dekeyser

Kronwall-Green

Smith-Marchenko

Ericsson

*Mic Drop*

Stuff like this annoys me. Cam Fowler's cap hit is $4M. Nyquist + Jurco + Ouellet + Sproul is a cap hit of nearly $7M. That matters, because to make a deal like that work, we probably have to retain $3M in salary or more. When teams make trades, they're looking at three things:

1) Hockey talent

2) Number of players involved

3) Cap hit

They don't just look at #1 - they're also looking to balance out the other two. So we'd likely have to retain at least $3M in salary, plus probably take on a contract or two from the players that get sent to us in that trade. We don't just get to dump all our garbage on another team and pick up a good player in return. That's not how things work in the NHL, and we need to stop pretending otherwise.

To investigate this a little more:

You've got about $60M tied up in that roster, plus at least $3M in retained salary from the Fowler deal, plus the retained salary we would no doubt have to keep on the books from Datsyuk and Pulk - that's an $8M hit of which we're probably keeping at least 50%. No team is going to freely take an $8M hit without making us take on a contract or two, or retain a lot of salary.

That's (generously) $67M all before re-signing DeKeyser, Sheahan, and Mrazek, whose cap hits could easily be $6M, $3M, and $4M respectively. Not to mention you've got four guys on your starting roster who either haven't ever seen significant NHL action (Mantha, Tangredi, Callahan) or haven't in years (Radulov), plus two guys who went back and forth being scratches all year as your 3rd pairing defensemen.

You've gone over the salary cap by a healthy $5M, at least, and your roster isn't any better. Arguably, it's worse. And you've saddled us with two 7-year contracts that will go until Helm and Okposo are both 36 years old.

I'm not saying I don't like making moves for Fowler or Okposo. I'm saying we need to all stop pretending we can play GM better than one of the 30 guys who gets paid to do it at the highest level in the world.

Edited by Aethernum

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I said a combination of Nuquist and those guys, not ALL of them. The cap would work fine.

Spoken like a true armchair GM.

Edit - I'm sorry for being snide about this, but that excuse is flimsy and you know it. Even putting the Fowler trade aside, you're over the cap as soon as you re-sign Mrazek, Sheahan, and DK. And within that trade, we're getting the better hockey talent, so we're going to be on the hook for more of a cap hit. Nyquist alone has a bigger hit than Fowler, so Nyquist + ANYONE is going to involve retained salary, which just puts you more over the cap for a roster that's worse than what we have now.

Edited by Aethernum

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And all of the "inexperienced" guys are in depth roles. Also, I don't believe that ANY of Dekeyser, Mzazek, or Sheahan will get the contracts you've advocated.

WHAT?! You mean to tell me I'm not an ACTUAL GM? Well I guess I just shouldn't talk about this team at all then eh?

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And all of the "inexperienced" guys are in depth roles. Also, I don't believe that ANY of Dekeyser, Mzazek, or Sheahan will get the contracts you've advocated.

WHAT?! You mean to tell me I'm not an ACTUAL GM? Well I guess I just shouldn't talk about this team at all then eh?

Plugging inexperienced guys with no defensive abilities into depth roles is exactly how this team gets burned. Between Radulov, Mantha, Tangredi, and Callahan, if even two of them work out as NHL-caliber players, then we'd be lucky. You're putting all four into your starting roster and hoping for the best? Come on.

And let's be clear on the cap situation: Between the three top-four defensemen not named DeKeyser, you have an average cap hit of $4.333M. So DeKeyser is getting at least that much and probably more since he's our future #1. If Mrazek is our starter, then he's getting paid starter money, which is $4M/yr, minimum. And if Sheahan is our third center next year, he'll probably get paid what our current third center gets paid, which is $3M. Those three alone, plus the roster you outlined, puts you over the cap before the retained salary of the Fowler deal OR the Datsyuk trade. And if you think we're getting rid of Nyquist, Jurco, Sproul/Ouelett, Datsyuk, AND Pulk without retaining salary, you're crazy.

And by the way, this is all for a roster that is worse than what we have now, and which involves taking on two 7-year deals for guys who will be 36 when those contracts end.

I'm not saying you can't talk about what you'd love to see happen, but I'm beyond frustrated with people thinking they can do a better job than our current GM, and trying to prove it by throwing out unrealistic deals and absurd rosters that would put us over the cap AND make us a worse hockey team.

Edited by Aethernum

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You keep saying we'd retain salary on fowler. We wouldn't. You're arguing against a made up assumption. Nuquist for Fowler could almost be done straight up. Its equal value. Sweetening the pot with one or two guys making league minimum isn't going to kill that deal, especially considering Anaheim will be looking to overhaul their roster anyway.

As far as the defense of the youngsters, you're also making things up. Callahan is good defensively and is used as such in GR. Tangedi is the 13th forward and is no worse defensively than our current 13th forwards Pulk and Jurco. Months IS bad defensively, which is why I've got him on the 3rd line with 2 defensively responsible guys.

If you need additional money then don't resign Helm, or retain money and trade Howard or Ericsson, or both. It doesn't matter, they'd be replaced by guys making league minimum anyway.

And how's the roster worse? You've added Fowler, Radulov, Okposo, Mantha, and depth guys and you lost Richards, Datsuk, Quincey, Nyquist and depth guys. If its not a net positive its a wash in terms of points, and it makes us bigger, younger, better at moving the puck AND allows us to slot guys like Zetterberg and Kronwall properly.

Also, I never, ever, said I "knew better" than Holland. Its an armchair roster, by a fan, for fun. Sue me.

Edited by kipwinger

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You keep saying we'd retain salary on fowler. We wouldn't. You're arguing against a made up assumption. Nuquist for Fowler could almost be done straight up. Its equal value. Sweetening the pot with one or two guys making league minimum isn't going to kill that deal, especially considering Anaheim will be looking to overhaul their roster anyway.

As far as the defense of the youngsters, you're also making things up. Callahan is good defensively and is used as such in GR. Tangedi is the 13th forward and is no worse defensively than our current 13th forwards Pulk and Jurco. Months IS bad defensively, which is why I've got him on the 3rd line with 2 defensively responsible guys.

If you need additional money then don't resign Helm, or retain money and trade Howard or Ericsson, or both.

If you were Bob Murray, would you trade Fowler for Nyquist, straight up?

And you're over the cap before you make that trade, anyway. So either you're getting rid of Helm/Ericsson, like you said, and putting another youngster on the roster with no NHL experience, or you're trading away our only insurance if Mrazek gets hurt. That makes our team even worse.

Being a GM is a lot harder than it looks.

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Kip's scenario is pretty much the dream (maybe the ultimate dream would include Stamkos). I think we all know how it's more likely to end up..

Larkin-Z-Abby
Tatar-Sheahan-Hudler (he's a UFA right?)
AA-E.Staal(our traditional past his prime allstar signing)-Jurco
Miller-Glen-Helm
Pulk

E-Kronwall
Green-DD
one of our Griffins that ran out of options-March
Smith

:bye:

I took Quincey out as I'm not cynical enough to believe Holland would keep the same D lineup and completely let our guys out of options out the door. I'd imagine the capspace would be needed as well.

Edited by Number19

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Stuff like this annoys me. Cam Fowler's cap hit is $4M. Nyquist + Jurco + Ouellet + Sproul is a cap hit of nearly $7M. That matters, because to make a deal like that work, we probably have to retain $3M in salary or more. When teams make trades, they're looking at three things:

1) Hockey talent

2) Number of players involved

3) Cap hit

They don't just look at #1 - they're also looking to balance out the other two. So we'd likely have to retain at least $3M in salary, plus probably take on a contract or two from the players that get sent to us in that trade. We don't just get to dump all our garbage on another team and pick up a good player in return. That's not how things work in the NHL, and we need to stop pretending otherwise.

To investigate this a little more:

You've got about $60M tied up in that roster, plus at least $3M in retained salary from the Fowler deal, plus the retained salary we would no doubt have to keep on the books from Datsyuk and Pulk - that's an $8M hit of which we're probably keeping at least 50%. No team is going to freely take an $8M hit without making us take on a contract or two, or retain a lot of salary.

That's (generously) $67M all before re-signing DeKeyser, Sheahan, and Mrazek, whose cap hits could easily be $6M, $3M, and $4M respectively. Not to mention you've got four guys on your starting roster who either haven't ever seen significant NHL action (Mantha, Tangredi, Callahan) or haven't in years (Radulov), plus two guys who went back and forth being scratches all year as your 3rd pairing defensemen.

You've gone over the salary cap by a healthy $5M, at least, and your roster isn't any better. Arguably, it's worse. And you've saddled us with two 7-year contracts that will go until Helm and Okposo are both 36 years old.

I'm not saying I don't like making moves for Fowler or Okposo. I'm saying we need to all stop pretending we can play GM better than one of the 30 guys who gets paid to do it at the highest level in the world.

You're wrong. There are many trades every year involving imbalanced cap hits. Players traded for picks or prospects make up the bulk of NHL trades, and they are all wildly imbalanced cap-wise. While if we were giving up 4 players, we'd probably have to take back some of Anaheim's garbage contracts (because of contract limit's, not the cap), they wouldn't be roster players and so wouldn't impact the cap.

The only reason for anyone to trade for Datsyuk would be because they specifically want the cap hit. Nothing would be retained. It would be pointless since the team wouldn't be paying any real money anyway.

I don't think you're too far off with the estimations for our RFAs, I do think you're a little high on all of them though.

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This is my official offseason wish list. None of it will happen, but a boy can dream.

1. Datyuk's contract+Pulkkinen to whomever for the cap relief.

2. Let Richards, Quincey, Miller, and Andersson walk.

3. Draft best available offensive defenseman.

4. Sign Alexander Radulov 3 years, 4.5 million.

5. Sign Kyle Okposo, 7 years, 5.5 million

6. Trade Gustav Nyquist and some comgination of Jurco, Ouellet, and Sproul for Cam Fowler.

7, Re-sign Darren Helm, 7 years, 3.5 million.

8. Promote Mantha and Callahan and Tangredi

Radulov-Larkin-Abby

Tatar-AA-Okposo

Z-Sheahan-Mantha

Helm-Glendening-Callahan

Tangredi

Fowler-Dekeyser

Kronwall-Green

Smith-Marchenko

Ericsson

*Mic Drop*

Tangradi is not an NHL player.

7 year deals for role players are moronic.

Callahan is not an NHL player

Okposo is going to get more cash than that

Edited by DickieDunn

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My offseason wishlist...

- Trade Pulkkinen along with our first to move up in the draft, and take Bean.

- Trade Ericsson (retain $1M) to Edmonton for 2016 3rd.

- Trade Howard to Carolina for low level prospect.

- Trade Tatar, Ouellet and 2017 first to Winnipeg for Trouba.

- Re-sign all RFA's.

- Re-sign Helm 5 years at $3.25M.

- Datsyuk plays out the remaining year of his contract.

Larkin - Datsyuk - Abdelkader

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Mantha

Athanasiou - Sheahan - Jurco

Helm - Glendening - Callahan

Frk

DeKeyser - Trouba

Smith - Green

Kronwall - Marchenko

Sproul

Mrazek

UFA

Edited by krsmith17

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My offseason wishlist...

- Trade Pulkkinen along with our first to move up in the draft, and take Bean.

- Trade Ericsson (retain $1M) to Edmonton for 2016 3rd.

- Trade Howard to Carolina for low level prospect.

- Trade Tatar, Ouellet and 2017 first to Winnipeg for Trouba.

- Re-sign all RFA's.

- Re-sign Helm 5 years at $3.25M.

- Datsyuk plays out the remaining year of his contract.

Larkin - Datsyuk - Abdelkader

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Mantha

Athanasiou - Sheahan - Jurco

Helm - Glendening - Callahan

Frk

DeKeyser - Trouba

Smith - Green

Kronwall - Marchenko

Sproul

Mrazek

UFA

This is actually exactly what I'd love to see roster-wise, except go all in after Stamkos when Datsyuk makes Russia official.

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This is actually exactly what I'd love to see roster-wise, except go all in after Stamkos when Datsyuk makes Russia official.

I agree. I wasn't a fan of the Wings going after Stamkos but we need to keep him away from the Leafs now that they have top pick this year. That team is going to be really good very soon, they just need a goalie.

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We already needed :

Top 6 Forward

Top 2 Def

Now with Dats leaving, going after Stamkos will be critical.

Top 6 forward, with some size and grit: Backes, Okposo, Lucic and Ladd are options (even if I don't like Ladd). Please don't mention Hudler as someone did... KH just realized that we need to get bigger and grittier. Hudler makes no sense as we are already small.

Top 2 def, Trouba or Shatty should be trade targets. Nyquist, Tatar, Pulks, Jurco should be available along with XO, Sproul and 2017 draft picks.

We also need a true 4th liners (Tangardi is not an option as he's AHL'er). Matt Martin would be perfect for 4th line.

Another need is a physical stay at home def, someone like Prout/McQuaid/Gudas.

2016/2017 Red Wings:

Larkin - Stamkos - Backes/Lucic/Okposo

Mantha - She - Tatar/Nyquist

Z - AA - Jurco/Pulks

Bertuzzi - LG - Martin

Deke - Trouba/Shatty

Smith - Green

Downfall - Gudas/Prout/McQuaid

Errorson (if we can't get rid of him)

Mrazek

FA

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We already needed :

Top 6 Forward

Top 2 Def

Now with Dats leaving, going after Stamkos will be critical.

Top 6 forward, with some size and grit: Backes, Okposo, Lucic and Ladd are options (even if I don't like Ladd). Please don't mention Hudler as someone did... KH just realized that we need to get bigger and grittier. Hudler makes no sense as we are already small.

Top 2 def, Trouba or Shatty should be trade targets. Nyquist, Tatar, Pulks, Jurco should be available along with XO, Sproul and 2017 draft picks.

We also need a true 4th liners (Tangardi is not an option as he's AHL'er). Matt Martin would be perfect for 4th line.

Another need is a physical stay at home def, someone like Prout/McQuaid/Gudas.

2016/2017 Red Wings:

Larkin - Stamkos - Backes/Lucic/Okposo

Mantha - She - Tatar/Nyquist

Z - AA - Jurco/Pulks

Bertuzzi - LG - Martin

Deke - Trouba/Shatty

Smith - Green

Downfall - Gudas/Prout/McQuaid

Errorson (if we can't get rid of him)

Mrazek

FA

Prout is a d-bag.

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My offseason wishlist...

- Trade Pulkkinen along with our first to move up in the draft, and take Bean.

- Trade Ericsson (retain $1M) to Edmonton for 2016 3rd.

- Trade Howard to Carolina for low level prospect.

- Trade Tatar, Ouellet and 2017 first to Winnipeg for Trouba.

- Re-sign all RFA's.

- Re-sign Helm 5 years at $3.25M.

- Datsyuk plays out the remaining year of his contract.

Larkin - Datsyuk - Abdelkader

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Mantha

Athanasiou - Sheahan - Jurco

Helm - Glendening - Callahan

Frk

DeKeyser - Trouba

Smith - Green

Kronwall - Marchenko

Sproul

Mrazek

UFA

Not a bad lineup ...love to see trouba but sadly I think there's zero chance now trouba gets dealt , along with morrisey they will be around the same age group of laine Conner ehlers scheifele and some other kids the jets got coming

f*** there gonna be real good

Sadly the only place I see Howard going is Calgary and we'd have to jump on it soon cause if fleury goes on the market along with other goalies once expansion draft is announced were stuck with him

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There's definitely not "zero chance Trouba gets dealt". He was said to be available last season and I'm sure with the right package he could be again going into next season. Whether or not we have the pieces they would want / be willing to part with is a completely different story... Winnipeg has a solid top 4 in Enstrom, Byfuglien, Stuart and Meyers as well as Morrisey ready to crack the lineup next season or the year after. I don't think Trouba is untouchable but he certainly won't come cheap...

Calgary is definitely a viable option for Howard, but why would you say that Carolina wouldn't be? Lack has been decent, but he has lost a step since his Vancouver days. Ward is a UFA, and I'm not sure what he would be looking for in a new contract, but I would imagine something similar to his $6.3M. They could let him walk and trade very little to Detroit for a very similar calibre goalie and save a million in cap space...

Either way, it would be great to trade Howard wherever. And hopefully we can do so without retaining any cap...

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