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Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

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10 hours ago, Buppy said:

But in regards to the youth, I think there's something people are over-looking. We waived Pulk and Frk in order to keep the waiver-exempt AA. To me, that means that at least Holland thinks AA should be playing, which would almost certainly mean Ott or Miller sitting. Who knows if Blash feels the same way, but I'd assume so. Probably more of a positive than if we'd demoted AA and stuck Pulk in the pressbox.

Or we could've demoted Ott and Miller. Or we could've not signed Ott and not re-signed Miller in the first place.

10 hours ago, Buppy said:

Also, you don't "build" with secondary players (or worse). We are building on the backs of Larkin, and Mrazek, and (for lack of a better option atm) Dekeyser, maybe AA. Hopefully in the near future we'll find at least a couple more to join that foundation. For secondary and depth players, it isn't that important where they come from. Old, young, drafted, UFA. Whatever. With Tatar, Nyquist, Abby, etc. we might even say our secondary players are already built as well as can be expected.

Like I've said, I don't feel we've lost huge building blocks in Frk and Pulkkinen; in the long run, I don't think we're really going to miss them. My problem lies with the way Ken Holland is doing business.

For what it's worth, though, I think the Wings -- under Holland -- have assembled a group of very promising young forwards over the past few years. Larkin, Athanasiou, Mantha, Svechnikov, Bertuzzi, Sadowy...that's nothing to sneeze at. But that's one of the exceedingly few things I can say, "Good on Ken Holland," about.

Edited by Dabura

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http://www.theoaklandpress.com/article/OP/20161011/SPORTS/161019923

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Athanasiou is expected to be a healthy scratch when the Wings open the season Thursday in Tampa Bay.

"I’m going to make decisions to try and win every night and (general manager) Ken (Holland) has got to monitor," Blashill said. "If we go stretches where AA’s not playing, then I’m sure we’ll get him down to the minors and playing."

hahahahahahahaha

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Ott and Miller are real good veterans, real good defensively, real responsible. Real good players. Real good. Heavy on the puck. 200-foot game. Stick-on-puck. Elite, elite. PK. Defense. Real good. Leaders. Veteran leaders. Veteran leadership. We feel they give us a different dimension. Real good. Stick-on-puck. Real good defensively. Heavy on the puck. Real good. Stick-on-puck. Real good.

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1 minute ago, e_prime said:

I imagine, if starting, he'd just be slotted in on the fourth line anyway... so I don't necessarily think this is horrible...

I think both scenarios are clownshoes. One -- the one we're getting -- is simply more clownshoes than the other one.

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To be fair if the team was chosen fairly based off training camp then the fourth line deserves to start the season together

 

It's a long season and it's pretty annoying but AA will find his way into the lineup taking out the right player and being in the right situation. This is all Blashill. The last thing Holland wants is a young kid sitting in the press box 

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Seems to me, maybe we could've just sent AA down with Mantha and kept Frk to be the healthy scratch....no?

But regarding AA as a scratch...in other news...nevermind, Holland must go.

Here's what we know...Trade Datsyuk in order your clear cap to attempt to sign Stamkos. As a result miss out on Chycrun. Doesn't even get to talk to Stamkos. Re-sign Helm to a preposterously overpaid and too long contract. Sign Nielsen and Vanek to try to make up for getting slighted by Stamkos. Sign Ott for no apparent reason (I think he'll surprise folks, but we really didn't NEED him.) Previously re-signed Miller, which his was not needed either. Gave Glendening way too much money on an extension. Failed to (or refuses to) trade Howard and Ericsson.  I give him credit for not wanting to overpay for Shattenkirk, Trouba or Fowler. Then, waives promising young player in Frk, even though he surprisingly had a better camp than most. Waived and lost Pulkkinen as well. Not as big as Frk, but still lost for free.

Not what I would call a very successful off season. I usually am on the side of we'll make the playoffs no problem. Not this year. Boston got better. Montreal has a healthy Price. Tampa has all their returning players, including a happy Drouin, who is great. Plus Florida is still better. This is the year the streak ends and Holland needs to ******* go!

It's pretty sad that Yzerman is ranked a better GM than Holland. But we'd rather keep Holland and let Mr. Red Wing leave.

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38 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Seems to me, maybe we could've just sent AA down with Mantha and kept Frk to be the healthy scratch....no?

But regarding AA as a scratch...in other news...nevermind, Holland must go.

Here's what we know...Trade Datsyuk in order your clear cap to attempt to sign Stamkos. As a result miss out on Chycrun. Doesn't even get to talk to Stamkos. Re-sign Helm to a preposterously overpaid and too long contract. Sign Nielsen and Vanek to try to make up for getting slighted by Stamkos. Sign Ott for no apparent reason (I think he'll surprise folks, but we really didn't NEED him.) Previously re-signed Miller, which his was not needed either. Gave Glendening way too much money on an extension. Failed to (or refuses to) trade Howard and Ericsson.  I give him credit for not wanting to overpay for Shattenkirk, Trouba or Fowler. Then, waives promising young player in Frk, even though he surprisingly had a better camp than most. Waived and lost Pulkkinen as well. Not as big as Frk, but still lost for free.

Not what I would call a very successful off season. I usually am on the side of we'll make the playoffs no problem. Not this year. Boston got better. Montreal has a healthy Price. Tampa has all their returning players, including a happy Drouin, who is great. Plus Florida is still better. This is the year the streak ends and Holland needs to ******* go!

It's pretty sad that Yzerman is ranked a better GM than Holland. But we'd rather keep Holland and let Mr. Red Wing leave.

since they don't have a chance, I guess we won't see you posting during the season then, Right? No point in playing the season out.

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43 minutes ago, DatsyukianDekes said:

since they don't have a chance, I guess we won't see you posting during the season then, Right? No point in playing the season out.

Uh....you're talking to a life long Wings fan. I was there and watched through the Dead Wing era. I can take it.  Won't be happy, and will love coming here and conversing with everyone.

But nice way to be constructive to the convo manxy.

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Just now, LeftWinger said:

Uh....you're talking to a life long Wings fan. I was there and watched through the Dead Wing era. I can take it.  Won't be happy, and will love coming here and conversing with everyone.

But nice way to be constructive to the convo manxy.

You said it not me.

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1 hour ago, joesuffP said:

To be fair if the team was chosen fairly based off training camp

It wasn't. The lineup was more-or-less set before the pre-season had even started. Search your feelings...you know it to be true.

1 hour ago, joesuffP said:

This is all Blashill.

I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Holding kids back didn't start with Blashill. In fact, Blashill had to fight for Larkin to be on last season's opening night roster. (Holland had wanted him to start with the Griffins.) Hell, Babcock had wanted Ouellet on the opening night roster two years ago and, well, read:

http://windsorstar.com/sports/wings-babcock-upset-by-ouellet-demotion

Quote

“What did I say yesterday?” Babcock snapped when asked about the decision to send defenceman Xavier Ouellet to AHL Grand Rapids. “You’re talking to the wrong guy. What’s next?”

Queried as to whether Ouellet would be in the Detroit lineup for Thursday’s regular-season opener against the Boston Bruins at Joe Louis Arena if it was solely his call, Babcock played it more coyly.

“Well, that’s a great question to have,” Babcock said. “I don’t have to answer that one, though. I just said I’d ask the other guy and then I’ll support everything he’s decided.”

While insisting he backed Holland’s decision, Babcock’s words and actions seemed to prove otherwise.

At Monday’s practice, Babcock deployed Ouellet in his third defensive pairing with Kyle Quincey. After the skate, Babcock stated that this season, the best players would play, regardless of whether they were youngsters or veterans.

To keep Ouellet on the big club, the Wings would have been required to place either Jakub Kindl or Brian Lashoff on waivers to assign one of them to Grand Rapids.

It’s no secret that Kindl isn’t one of Babcock’s favourites, but overall, those in the organization are split on his potential.

Babcock suggested he’d been voted down when the decision came to send Ouellet back to the minor leagues.

“I got my two cents in, so I get one vote,” Babcock said. “He (Holland) gets two, so he can win, 2-1.

“It’s almost exactly like at home: I get one vote and my wife gets two, and I lose 2-1 lots.”

Mind you, I'm not giving Blashill a free pass here. And, granted, I realize you're talking about the kids sitting in the press box as opposed to them being sent to Grand Rapids.

But, still. I think it's safe to say Ken Holland is the problem here. (He is The General Manager, after all.)

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30 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

Based on Blashill's quotes he makes it obvious it was his decision.

Maybe it is, in fact, his decision and no one else's. Or maybe there's a little more to it than that. I believe we're looking at the latter. And, with all due respect, I'm not really sure why anyone who's been following the Wings long enough and closely enough would believe Jeff Blashill has total control over roster-related decisions. Mike "Alpha Male, Best Coach in Hockey, Egomaniac, etc." Babcock was frequently overruled by Ken Holland. (Granted, that's assuming Babcock was telling the truth.) Jeff Blashill is a largely unproven second-year NHL head coach...

Edited by Dabura

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1 hour ago, DatsyukianDekes said:

You said it not me.

Did not say I wouldn't be posting.  I said with the piss poor job Holland did, and with the improvements of Boston, healthy Price and all of Tampa's players coming back, PLUS Florida is better than us, the streak will be over. Where does that say I won't watch or be posting?

I have said I am teetering on the edge of boycotting if Holland loses Sproul due to Kronwall coming back, but I was informed that they won't have to waive him because they all fit under the cap. No doubt though, if this team does NOT make the playoffs, useless contracts must go, Howard, Ericsson, Nyquist AND Helm for example.

My point to you was I watched and bled with them during the Dead Wings era and as they grew the core that you all are spoiled by. I can handle watching it again, but it seems that Holland doesn't want to grow by the draft like he says every year, yet he doesn't want to trade the 1st rounder for a better player. He just talks sideways out his ass. Build via the draft, but re-sign garbage players, lose talented young kids for nothing. Every year its the same with him. Every year he says build through the draft, kids will be our future, yet every year he re-signs useless players like Helm, Miller, and before like Samuelsson, Cleary, KFQ. 

Just wait for when Mantha is out of waiver options and there's no room for him on the roster...do you think he'll waive one of the players he is loyal to? No, he'll waive Mantha and hope he sneaks by everyone, like he hoped with Frk and Pulk.  BTW, of all the teams and all the players waived the last couple of weeks, how many players were claimed? TWO! Both ours! Other GM's know Holland is going to dump his kids for his useless players, like Helm and Ericsson. They just wait salivating and hope they can get their hands on them for free.  And look what happened. Nobody wanted to give Holland a 7th round pick or even future considerations for either Frk or Pulk, but as soon as they were waived, multiple claims on Frk and even Pulk got snatched up. Holland gets fleeced all the time. He overpays for junk (Quincey) but won't give a 1st up in a package for Trouba or Fowler? Why, so that 1st round pick can get waived in three years after signing a contract so we can be loyal to WAY below average players?  That's why I and many are upset and have almost had it with this guy!

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7 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Maybe it is, in fact, his decision and no one else's. Or maybe there's a little more to it than that. I believe we're looking at the latter. And, with all due respect, I'm not really sure why anyone who's been following the Wings long enough and closely enough would believe Jeff Blashill has total control over roster-related decisions. Mike "Alpha Male, Best Coach in Hockey, Egomaniac, etc." Babcock was frequently overuled by Ken Holland. (Granted, that's assuming Babcock was telling the truth.) Jeff Blashill is a largely unproven second-year NHL head coach. "Do the math," as they say.

Do you have a link?

 

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33 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

Based on Blashill's quotes he makes it obvious it was his decision. Makes it seem like they'll have roster decisions game in game out

Yes, its his decision to play them or not, but its Holland who waives them or sends them down to GR.

 

The point I was making was, if AA wasn't going to play right away, he could've been sent to GR with Mantha at no risk and we could've kept Frk in the pressbox and he would've still been in the organization.  If, after getting into 10 or so games, he wasn't panning out or if AA came up for an injured player and took over the spot, then waive Frk.  But Blashill can only play who Holland gives him.  He had said that BOTH AA and Mantha have not been good enough in camp, yet Holland dumped Frk and Pulk and kept AA.  I love AA, but I love him playing, not the 13th FWD, and NOT on the 4th line.  AA should be our 3rd line center, hands down, but that was given to a useless guy.

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1 minute ago, kliq said:

Do you have a link?

The best evidence we have is probably that Bob Duff piece I quoted a couple posts back.

Link: http://windsorstar.com/sports/wings-babcock-upset-by-ouellet-demotion

Quote

Babcock suggested he’d been voted down when the decision came to send Ouellet back to the minor leagues.

“I got my two cents in, so I get one vote,” Babcock said. “He (Holland) gets two, so he can win, 2-1.

“It’s almost exactly like at home: I get one vote and my wife gets two, and I lose 2-1 lots.”

 

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Now, to be fair, Babcock doesn't explicitly say, "Ultimately, I don't have the final say in who plays and who doesn't. Like, if Kenny wants a guy in the press box, that guy is sitting in the press box." Babcock seems to be talking more about decisions re: where [x player] is playing (i.e. Grand Rapids or Detroit). So, maybe it was (and remains?) a situation where the head coach had (and has?) total control over who plays on any given night. But if Holland was (and is?) over-exerting his power as GM re: who is and isn't on the Red Wings roster...that, to me, raises questions. I don't believe the head coach of the Detroit Red Wings, in this day and age, has full control of the roster in terms of who is and isn't on the roster and who he does/can and doesn't/can't play.

Edited by Dabura

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Exactly. Blashill has power of who plays from the pool that Holland gives him. He said that AA wasn't good enough in camp, yet he was given AA, so Blashill has him in the pressbox. Not sure what his opinion of Frk was, but at least if AA was in GR (safely) and someone had to be in the pressbox, why not make it Frk? Why waive him? Because the blundering idiot thinks that just because someone won't trade for a player that no one is interested in them.  Obviously multiple teams were.  They just played Holland like the buffoon his is.

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