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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

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I actually don't get that vibe at all. He already made a trade albeit a small one and the playoffs aren't even over yet. At the very least we know he's working the phones. I think the market is kinda muddy at the moment but it should open up a bit during/after the draft.

I hear that too, but we have seen him kick endless tires. Yes its nice to see him ramping it up but I am going to wait until the smoke clears here and we see whats happening....Im hopeful, obviously want the best but he has some extra pressure yet again noone expected.

Edited by 13dangledangle

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Because the Wings would be getting the better end of the deal.

Don't agree ... A team like Carolina for example who's cash strapped right now would love to get that datsyuk contract and save 7.5 of actual cash , the way I see it we'd both be helping eachother out , why in the hell would we have to give away a pulkkinen or jurco (yes I realize they haven't done anything significant yet,but both are young and im not ready to write them off yet as NHL busts )

I can't imagine us offering say datsyuks contract and a 4th for a 7th from Carolina that they'd laugh in our faces and hang up with everything going on there

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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Don't agree ... A team like Carolina for example who's cash strapped right now would love to get that datsyuk contract and save 7.5 of actual cash , the way I see it we'd both be helping eachother out , why in the hell would we have to give away a pulkkinen or jurco (yes I realize they haven't done anything significant yet,but both are young and im not ready to write them off yet as NHL busts )

I can't imagine us offering say datsyuks contract and a 4th for a 7th from Carolina that they'd laugh in our faces and hang up with everything going on there

They're going to ask for a sweetener because they can. Because who else can we go to? Because this is a situation in which our team has no leverage, and if you think any team is going to do us the favor of getting us out of a $7.5M hit without taking anything in return, you're nuts.

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They're going to ask for a sweetener because they can. Because who else can we go to? Because this is a situation in which our team has no leverage, and if you think any team is going to do us the favor of getting us out of a $7.5M hit without taking anything in return, you're nuts.

Then i guess I'm nuts ... Everyone knows Carolina is a cap team with a lot of money trouble and that 7.5 cap hit without spending a penny would be gold to them and wouldn't require us to give away young talent

It's not a deal that involves doing us a favour it's a deal that helps both sides

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Then i guess I'm nuts ... Everyone knows Carolina is a cap team with a lot of money trouble and that 7.5 cap hit without spending a penny would be gold to them and wouldn't require us to give away young talent

It's not a deal that involves doing us a favour it's a deal that helps both sides

It's not necessarily doing the Red Wings a favor, but who does the deal help more? The general managers in the league understand Detroit's current situation, and that there are a limited number of teams willing/able to take on the contract. It's helping them get to the floor/not pay out actual dollars, but I'm sure they'll want the Wings to sweeten the pot a bit. I think it's probably somewhere in the middle. Detroit isn't going to have to give up a solid prospect and pick to the contract, but I'm not sure just attaching a 4th rounder will do it, either. I'm sure it varies from team to team - not everyone has the same asking price. Hopefully someone will take it in a reasonable deal.

Karmanos is in deep (financially) right now, but I still can't see him doing Ilitch any "favors". I think Arizona might be the Wings' best chance to unload the contract.

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It's not necessarily doing the Red Wings a favor, but who does the deal help more? The general managers in the league understand Detroit's current situation, and that there are a limited number of teams willing/able to take on the contract. It's helping them get to the floor/not pay out actual dollars, but I'm sure they'll want the Wings to sweeten the pot a bit. I think it's probably somewhere in the middle. Detroit isn't going to have to give up a solid prospect and pick to the contract, but I'm not sure just attaching a 4th rounder will do it, either. I'm sure it varies from team to team - not everyone has the same asking price. Hopefully someone will take it in a reasonable deal.

Karmanos is in deep (financially) right now, but I still can't see him doing Ilitch any "favors". I think Arizona might be the Wings' best chance to unload the contract.

They might want Detroit to sweeten the pot ... But in life you can't always get what you want

And yes the asking price will differ from teams , and yes karma is in deep s*** right now and I don't consider us doing that deal as him doing ill itch any favours , I'd see it as a win win deal , he'd help us with our cap situation and likewise we'd be helping out them as saving 7.5 of actual cash will greatly help the canes .... Where else are they gonna get a 7.5 cap hit to hit the bottom floor without actually having to spend a single dollar

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They're going to ask for a sweetener because they can. Because who else can we go to? Because this is a situation in which our team has no leverage, and if you think any team is going to do us the favor of getting us out of a $7.5M hit without taking anything in return, you're nuts.

Except it's not a favor. It's an even swap in cases like Phoenix. They get the cap hit they want and don't have to pay actual money.

Now teams could be dicks but that's where reputation comes in. Kenny has good relations with everyone and no in the old boys club almost no one is going to try and so obviously put the screws to the Wings.

In fact the favor would be in taking a scrub or failed prospect that we can't unload anywhere else. I'd imagine the sweetener is just Holland trying to unload chaff to free up roster spaces.

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Except it's not a favor. It's an even swap in cases like Phoenix. They get the cap hit they want and don't have to pay actual money.

Now teams could be dicks but that's where reputation comes in. Kenny has good relations with everyone and no in the old boys club almost no one is going to try and so obviously put the screws to the Wings.

In fact the favor would be in taking a scrub or failed prospect that we can't unload anywhere else. I'd imagine the sweetener is just Holland trying to unload chaff to free up roster spaces.

Pulksy?

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A GM's job is to make the best possible deals to help their team. Not making Detroit give up something to get out of the hole Holland dug is bad business.

And how is getting a 7.5 cap hit to reach the bottom floor and not having to spend a single penny when your NHL franchise is losing money and in serious trouble not a good deal to help their team?

Let's flip this s*** around for fun of it ... Let's say Detroit says we're gonna keep the cap hit cause it's only one season and give the kids a chance .... Carolina calls and asks for the contract to help out their current situation , we're gonna be assholes now and expect them to throw us a 22 yr old 2nd round prospect with some untapped potential?

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We should want to "sweeten the pot" as well. If we are looking to bring forwards in then we will need the roster spots.

That all depends on whether we bring back Helm and/or Miller. Without them, there's room up front to add a player or 2 even if we count Mantha as in from day 1 (but the 4th line will likely be bad).

Lark-Z-Abby

Tat-Shea-

Mantha-AA-Ny

Jurco-Glen-

Pulk

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That all depends on whether we bring back Helm and/or Miller. Without them, there's room up front to add a player or 2 even if we count Mantha as in from day 1 (but the 4th line will likely be bad).

Lark-Z-Abby

Tat-Shea-

Mantha-AA-Ny

Jurco-Glen-

Pulk

Lil Bert, Callahan, and Nosek are good options for 4th line. We'll be fine there imo. Jurco should bump up to 3rd or on his lucky day the 2nd line.

Nyquist - Zet - Abby

Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco (remember this line?)

Mantha - AA - Larkin

Callahan - Glendog - Bert

Just throwing some stuff out as filler. I don't see AA and Larkin being on the same line. But anyways, top 3 lines need to divide ice times more evenly. No need for Zetterberg's line to get 19+ minutes a night.

This roster would probably squeeze into playoffs and that's about it, but that's where we stand unless we bring some new faces in.

New faces on the roster, I don't see Jurco playing for us anymore (plus I think we're wasting him on the 4th line). So swap Jurco with new forward possibly. And maybe Pulk gone with Datsyuk's contract. Who would be the forwards we bring in anyway. Seems like Radulov situation might not happen. Maybe Andrew Ladd or Eriksson.

Edited by kickazz

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Lil Bert, Callahan, and Nosek are good options for 4th line. We'll be fine there imo. Jurco should bump up to 3rd or on his lucky day the 2nd line.

Nyquist - Zet - Abby

Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco (remember this line?)

Mantha - AA - Larkin

Callahan - Glendog - Bert

Just throwing some stuff out as filler. I don't see AA and Larkin being on the same line. But anyways, top 3 lines need to divide ice times more evenly. No need for Zetterberg's line to get 19+ minutes a night.

Agree with the bolded part. I was talking in the context of having space for a UFA forward. Even if we add one of your 3 guys (Bert would be my choice) and included Mantha in the lineup, We still have room for a player in the top 9 as long as Jurco does 4th duties (not ideal, but I think likely once Mantha's on the team)

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Anyone know what kind of money Eriksson is looking for?


Agree with the bolded part. I was talking in the context of having space for a UFA forward. Even if we add one of your 3 guys (Bert would be my choice) and included Mantha in the lineup, We still have room for a player in the top 9 as long as Jurco does 4th duties (not ideal, but I think likely once Mantha's on the team)

Yeah lol re-edited my post to add to the discussion, realized later what you were specifically talking about.

Edited by kickazz

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Anyone know what kind of money Eriksson is looking for?

This article says he's asking Boston for "six years at $6,000,000 per season"

https://causewaycrowd.com/2016/06/03/boston-bruins-loui-eriksson-contract-talks-progressing-well/

As the article alludes, I don't think he'll get 6 six years with the concussion troubles he struggled with 2 years ago.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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I'm not saying it's impossible for a deal to benefit both parties equally, but in most of these "cap dump" situations the team trying to shed a contract had to add something.

The Capitals had to add a 2nd rounder and Connor Carrick to get rid of Laich (they received Winnik and a late-round pick).
The Flyers retained half of the salary on both Lecavalier and Schenn's contracts (they received Jordan Weal and a 3rd).

In other cases, it's been about taking on an unwanted contract for someone who will never play ahain (Horton for Clarkson, Pronger and Grossmann for Sam Gagner), and I don't think Detroit wants to take on the salary of an underperforming player.

More often than not, the team shedding the contract has to give something extra, retain salary or take on a bad contract. The only situation I know of (and I had to look it up) where the team shedding "won" is when Tim Thomas was moved to the Isles for a 2nd rounder. I could be forgetting or missing a similar trade (and feel free to mention any), but it seems to me like most of the time the team moving the contract is losing.

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Put it this way, you're the GM in Carolina. What's more important, squeezing Holland for what you can get, and adding a player that could help your team, or being nice so he likes you.

Has nothing to do with being nice , right now Carolina is fighting for their lives , they keep losing money they'll be in Quebec In a few seasons ... Guaranteed

That 7.5 savings would be huge for them

I'm not saying it's impossible for a deal to benefit both parties equally, but in most of these "cap dump" situations the team trying to shed a contract had to add something.

The Capitals had to add a 2nd rounder and Connor Carrick to get rid of Laich (they received Winnik and a late-round pick).

The Flyers retained half of the salary on both Lecavalier and Schenn's contracts (they received Jordan Weal and a 3rd).

In other cases, it's been about taking on an unwanted contract for someone who will never play ahain (Horton for Clarkson, Pronger and Grossmann for Sam Gagner), and I don't think Detroit wants to take on the salary of an underperforming player.

More often than not, the team shedding the contract has to give something extra, retain salary or take on a bad contract. The only situation I know of (and I had to look it up) where the team shedding "won" is when Tim Thomas was moved to the Isles for a 2nd rounder. I could be forgetting or missing a similar trade (and feel free to mention any), but it seems to me like most of the time the team moving the contract is losing.

Toronto did those teams a favor , you can say Carolina would be as well but it's not the same .... Leads had to pay actual cash and they are a rich organization and don't need to worry about saving funds ... Same with Philly

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