Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[amato 3,210]

I think both sides have good points re: the Datsyuk/Carolina debate.

Why wouldn't Carolina try? Holland could probably get rid of the contract alone but would he risk not being able to get rid of it at all over say moving a less important player or prospect for a late pick or swapping down a round in picks or whatever the little bit extra would be?

Even if the chances a deal doesn't get done at all are slim, I'm not so sure.. Especially if potentially signing stamkos is on the table.

[kliq 3,755]

And Carolina isn't? Everyone knows they are a budget team and having money problems and that 7.5 money is a life safer

Let's just agree to disagree

At the end of the day its a game of chicken, and most likely whoever is more desperate is going to lose. I dont think either of you are "wrong", both will try to get the best deal they can get, but likely at some point one of them will walk away, and then the other will budge (the more desperate one).

Or they meet in the middle which is possible as well.

[marcaractac 3,963]

Canes would no doubt try to get a player. Any good GM would. Holland would offer a low draft pick. In turn they'd meet in the middle. But if a team like Carolina wants that cap hit, they'll get it one way or another. The only way Holland would have to offer up anything of value is if these type of teams realise early that they'll have no problem reaching the cap floor as is.

Personally I think dealing a guy like Pulk would be fine as part of the deal. Roster spots need to open up and Pulk's value is low.

[krsmith17 7,191]

If we can trade Datsyuk's contract for a mid to late round draft pick, awesome. If we have to throw in a middling prospect, that's fine too. But if we have to give up a player like Jurco or better, I hope we just keep Pav's contract for the final year... The only way I'd be okay with giving up a player of any significance to trade that contract would be if that $5.5M is the only thing stopping us from signing a big name free agent. If the only thing Holland is focusing on is trading that contract, and he's not in on any big name free agents or trade targets, I say we should suck it up and eat the contract, rather than losing a valuable asset for nothing...

As I've said before, we're not contending next year without at least one big name acquisition, so there's absolutely no need to trade that contract if we're not planning on using that cap space for any big moves. I'm hoping Holland gets very aggressive and makes some bold moves this summer, but no matter what he does, I can't imagine it being enough to make us legit Cup contenders next season...

Summer check list (in order of importance)...

- Trade for a top pairing defenseman (Trouba)

- Trade Howard

- Trade Ericsson

- Trade Datsyuk's contract

- Sign a top end forward (Stamkos / Okposo)

If he's only able to pull off one of those (unless it's number 1), I see it as a major failure. If he can pull off 3 out of 5, I see it as a successful offseason. If he's able to somehow pull off all 5, I see us as being legit Cup contenders...

[LeftWinger 4,961]

While I totally agree, I don't see E getting traded unless a team really wants him. I think, to make room, it would be easier to trade Nyquist. Trading Pav, Howard and Nyquist clears a ton of cap space. I know DD, Mrazek and Sheahan need to re-signed, but that still leaves a lot of cap space to land Stamkos.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to also move E, could you imagine what we could accomplish with an extra $20M+ added to the $13M+ we are prjected to have before any increase if there is to be? Lets just say we could shed all that salary and end up with $33M to add players and re-sign our RFA's...Nice!

Edited June 5, 2016 by LeftWinger

[LeftWinger 4,961]

That all depends on whether we bring back Helm and/or Miller. Without them, there's room up front to add a player or 2 even if we count Mantha as in from day 1 (but the 4th line will likely be bad).

Lark-Z-Abby

Tat-Shea-

Mantha-AA-Ny

Jurco-Glen-

Pulk

any scenario where Z is still our #1 center is a disaster waiting to happen.

[krsmith17 7,191]

You don't trade a player like Nyquist because you're trying to relieve cap space, you only trade him if it's in a package to upgrade your roster. Nyquist is a very good player on a very cap friendly contract. He has value in a trade package, and that's not the type of player(s) we need to dump...

I believe Ericsson could be traded if Holland were actively shopping him, the problem is, I don't believe Holland wants to trade him. There are always GM's around the league that will go after a player because of size. Roy, for example is looking to trade Barrie because he doesn't value small, puck moving defensemen, but would instead rather big, defensive defensemen. I'm not saying Colorado would want Ericsson, but there's definitely a team out there that would trade for him, even if it involves us eating $1-1.5M...

[VM1138 1,921]

We don't necessarily need to dump Jurco but I don't see why people think he's going to turn it around. He's a big bodied scoring winger (supposedly) who can't make an impact. And before you bring up the fact that he's always on the fourth line, that's exactly where a player like him should be able to make a mark.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

We don't necessarily need to dump Jurco but I don't see why people think he's going to turn it around. He's a big bodied scoring winger (supposedly) who can't make an impact. And before you bring up the fact that he's always on the fourth line, that's exactly where a player like him should be able to make a mark.

I agree. He has been given so many chances to make an impact and has never come to fruition. He is just eating up space for another guy to come up and try to make an impact and make the team. I would love if we traded him in a package for a defenseman.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

I would really like to keep Quincy and dump Ericcsson. Grrrrrrrrrr

[marcaractac 3,963]

I agree. He has been given so many chances to make an impact and has never come to fruition. He is just eating up space for another guy to come up and try to make an impact and make the team. I would love if we traded him in a package for a defenseman.

How can a player gain any footing if he is only ever given 1 or 2 games at most at a time? He hasn't gotten a legit shot in a long time.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

How can a player gain any footing if he is only ever given 1 or 2 games at most at a time? He hasn't gotten a legit shot in a long time.

If you are an NHL caliber player you will make due with whatever chances you are given. AA didn't get the ice time he deserved and still managed to leave a mark on just about every game he played. Jurco was barely noticeable when he was on the ice.

[marcaractac 3,963]

If you are an NHL caliber player you will make due with whatever chances you are given. AA didn't get the ice time he deserved and still managed to leave a mark on just about every game he played. Jurco was barely noticeable when he was on the ice.

Players develop differently. Jurco has shown what he can be. The kid is just one of those who needs a little time to put it all together. He'll get there. But you can't develop your scoring touch at the NHL level with out actually playing games. Even if he could just get regular 4th line minutes he would eventually figure it out.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

Players develop differently. Jurco has shown what he can be. The kid is just one of those who needs a little time to put it all together. He'll get there. But you can't develop your scoring touch at the NHL level with out actually playing games. Even if he could just get regular 4th line minutes he would eventually figure it out.

I personally don't see him as more of a 3rd liner. I don't think he will ever have the opportunity in Detroit to get those minutes to prove himself. He would really benefit from being traded to a team he would have more of an opportunity with. Which is why I'd love if he was packaged in a deal for a defenseman. Too many prospects on the Wings are passing him and there are limited roster spots.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Jurco would definitely benefit from a trade, but the problem is, the Wings would not. Jurco's value is at an all time low, and what we could possibly get for him, is not even close to worth what we would lose in potential.

I think that because he's been around for a few years, people think he should have already reached his potential, but in reality he is still very young, and should only now start to make strides toward that potential.

Like marcaractac mentioned, players develop at different rates. Nyquist and Tatar are 2-3 years older than Jurco, and neither were impact players in the NHL until they were 23(ish), which is exactly how old Jurco is going into this season. Jurco will be a good secondary scorer, and it would be a huge mistake to trade him at this point, especially in a deal just to get rid of Datsyuk's contract...

[kipwinger 8,524]

I'm not dying to get rid of Jurco by any stretch, but I wouldn't be broken hearted about it either. He's at best a huge question mark going forward, and a number of younger guys are pushing for that spot. Same goes for Pulkkinen. If either, or both, are needed to sweeten the pot for trade deals I'd be ok with losing them.

[kipwinger 8,524]

Hey, here's a question for the board. From what I'm reading, Columbus wants to trade Hartnell. They don't want to have to protect him in case of an expansion draft, and his contract is bad. They also need decent backup goaltending. How would everyone feel about a trade package that centered around Howard for Hartnell. I think both sides would have to add lower end picks or prospects to make it work, but it's interesting. We'd gain a veteran power forward who's still playing good hockey. They'd gain a backup goalie that they wouldn't have to protect.

Keep in mind that we're probably signing Todd Richards as assistant coach, and Hartnell played very well in Richard's system for a year and a half in Columbus.

Thoughts?

[VM1138 1,921]

Players develop differently. Jurco has shown what he can be. The kid is just one of those who needs a little time to put it all together. He'll get there. But you can't develop your scoring touch at the NHL level with out actually playing games. Even if he could just get regular 4th line minutes he would eventually figure it out.

He did get regular time for a while. It's not like he was never given a chance.

Jurco would definitely benefit from a trade, but the problem is, the Wings would not. Jurco's value is at an all time low, and what we could possibly get for him, is not even close to worth what we would lose in potential.

I think that because he's been around for a few years, people think he should have already reached his potential, but in reality he is still very young, and should only now start to make strides toward that potential.

Like marcaractac mentioned, players develop at different rates. Nyquist and Tatar are 2-3 years older than Jurco, and neither were impact players in the NHL until they were 23(ish), which is exactly how old Jurco is going into this season. Jurco will be a good secondary scorer, and it would be a huge mistake to trade him at this point, especially in a deal just to get rid of Datsyuk's contract...

No one expects him to have hit his peak, but he hasn't shown any kind of development or improvement at all. None. And he's not new anymore.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

If we can trade Datsyuk's contract for a mid to late round draft pick, awesome. If we have to throw in a middling prospect, that's fine too. But if we have to give up a player like Jurco or better, I hope we just keep Pav's contract for the final year... The only way I'd be okay with giving up a player of any significance to trade that contract would be if that $5.5M is the only thing stopping us from signing a big name free agent. If the only thing Holland is focusing on is trading that contract, and he's not in on any big name free agents or trade targets, I say we should suck it up and eat the contract, rather than losing a valuable asset for nothing...

As I've said before, we're not contending next year without at least one big name acquisition, so there's absolutely no need to trade that contract if we're not planning on using that cap space for any big moves. I'm hoping Holland gets very aggressive and makes some bold moves this summer, but no matter what he does, I can't imagine it being enough to make us legit Cup contenders next season...

Summer check list (in order of importance)...

- Trade for a top pairing defenseman (Trouba)

- Trade Howard

- Trade Ericsson

- Trade Datsyuk's contract

- Sign a top end forward (Stamkos / Okposo)

If he's only able to pull off one of those (unless it's number 1), I see it as a major failure. If he can pull off 3 out of 5, I see it as a successful offseason. If he's able to somehow pull off all 5, I see us as being legit Cup contenders...

You say your fine with giving away with middling prospect but what do you consider middling ? Would you be fine with giving away axel holmstrom? I wouldn't , hadn't proven s*** yet but broke the sedins playoff records for points so I still got hopes for him ... Same with turgeon

Which prospects would you be ok with departing?

[kickazz 5,459]

Hey, here's a question for the board. From what I'm reading, Columbus wants to trade Hartnell. They don't want to have to protect him in case of an expansion draft, and his contract is bad. They also need decent backup goaltending. How would everyone feel about a trade package that centered around Howard for Hartnell. I think both sides would have to add lower end picks or prospects to make it work, but it's interesting. We'd gain a veteran power forward who's still playing good hockey. They'd gain a backup goalie that they wouldn't have to protect.

Keep in mind that we're probably signing Todd Richards as assistant coach, and Hartnell played very well in Richard's system for a year and a half in Columbus.

Thoughts?

It's a tough one. Hartnell has been on a decline. Not a huge decline but definitely a steady slow rate one. And we would have him for another 3 years which is the same amount of time as Jimmy's contract. I think I'd do it if no one else budges for taking Howard contract. I'd call it a plan B or C.

But if they are looking for a backup - wouldn't Howard be an expensive backup? With Bobrovsky's new contract and Howard's, they would be tied with almost $13 million in goaltending. Guess it depends on the expansion draft timeline. From what I heard it wouldn't take effect until 2018/19 - which is basically when Hartnell and Howard's contract ends?

Edited June 5, 2016 by kickazz

[kipwinger 8,524]

It's a tough one. Hartnell has been on a decline. Not a huge decline but definitely a steady slow rate one. And we would have him for another 3 years which is the same amount of time as Jimmy's contract. I think I'd do it if no one else budges for taking Howard contract. I'd call it a plan B or C.

But if they are looking for a backup - wouldn't Howard be an expensive backup? With Bobrovsky's new contract and Howard's, they would be tied with almsot $13 million in goaltending.

Howard would be expensive, but no more than Hartnell. Plus Bobrovsky has been injured A LOT lately, so I think Howard would be more like a 1B goalie. I think the thing for them, from what I'm hearing, is that they don't want someone they'll have to protect. They wouldn't with Howard.

But you're right, I wouldn't do this as a first option. Definitely a "if Pav comes back and we can't make a big splash in FA" type move.

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

If we are waiting for a guy like Jurco to step up prior to trading him we are going to be waiting a while IMO and will be stuck with the same plodding team. We've had the same group of kids for some time now. If you don't know what you have by now you never will. The Wings have needed the same Defensive anchor and tough guys upfront for years and we seem to be scared we might trade talent away at less than their pending value than making a move that will benefit us long term.

[kickazz 5,459]

How long do we give Jurco? He'll be 24 sometime this upcoming season and he's got about 3 years in the NHL under his belt. Seems like there's a lot of players jumping ahead of him on the depth chart year in and year out. I say one more year and if he's continued to be wasted on the 4th line then we're wasting his time and our own.

This article says he's asking Boston for "six years at $6,000,000 per season"

https://causewaycrowd.com/2016/06/03/boston-bruins-loui-eriksson-contract-talks-progressing-well/

As the article alludes, I don't think he'll get 6 six years with the concussion troubles he struggled with 2 years ago.

Would take him over Radulov but 6 years is too much..

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

He's gonna be 24 in December , 3 NHL seasons but none were ever a full season

I'd like to see him play 70+ and get some good linemates for a consistent time and not switched around all the time and play on the 4th line

Top 3 lines , linemates with skill and some occasional ppl time ... He's got all the tools , just needs a consistent, real shot

[marcaractac 3,963]

How long do we give Jurco? He'll be 24 sometime this upcoming season and he's got about 3 years in the NHL under his belt. Seems like there's a lot of players jumping ahead of him on the depth chart year in and year out. I say one more year and if he's continued to be wasted on the 4th line then we're wasting his time and our own.

Would take him over Radulov but 6 years is too much..

He'll I'd be happy to see him be in the starting lineup for the first couple months of the season. Give him a chance to regain his confidence. It's not like he has ever had issues being a liability out there. Time to give him a legit chance to get into a rhythm. Not start one night, healthy scratch for the next weeks. Other players on this team have done a lot worse than Jurco without losing their roster spot.

Even if he has to play on the fourth line, he should be playing.