Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Not that I want Pit to win another Cup, but can the series just get over so the REAL off season can start already!?!?!

[romagoth 47]

The problem is, we're not going to get an elite superstar through drafting, and probably not through UFA if we miss out on Stamkos. These types of players don't come along very often, and we're not going to win a Cup without one. Sure, money is a big issue but if we're serious about rebuilding and COMPETING, we have to make a huge play for Stamkos. Filling the team with capable but non-spectacular players is exactly how we ended up being a perennial playoff team with no shot at the Cup. I agree that you can't rely on one player, but you also can't move forward without a big superstar.

I would love to see Stamkos in Detroit next year as would most other Wings fans. I am not sure how realistic it is to think he will sign in Detroit though. Holland would have to convince him that we are close to being a contender and be able to pay him enough as well.

I will pass on Radulov if he really wants the reported $7-$7.5 million per year. That is a ridiculous amount of money for a guy of his caliber who never really proved he can stick in the NHL.

[amato 3,210]

Not that I want Pit to win another Cup, but can the series just get over so the REAL off season can start already!?!?!

Yeah, just three more games

[amato 3,210]

Looks like Holland is working toward a one year Miller extension.

“We’re working away, hopefully find a solution,” Detroit GM Ken Holland told MLive. “He’s a good penalty killer, he’s a good leader in the room.”

“[Miller] doesn’t wear a letter but he’s well-respected by the younger players,” Holland said. “Hopefully we find a solution to keep him here for another year.”

RE: his injuries....

Those injuries could end up being a blessing, however.

Per MLive, Miller can sign a contract featuring games-played bonuses because he spent more than 100 days on injured reserve last year. That could provide some cap flexibility for Holland, who has a number of key financial decisions to make this summer.

http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/06/08/detroit-working-away-on-miller-extension/

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Hopefully Miller moves on. He could get more money on the open market, his PK abilities are highly overrated (numbers back this up, if you don't follow Prashanth Iyer on twitter, do it) and he's a boat anchor at even strength. Nosek/Callahan/etc. can give us everything Drew does for cheaper.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

Helm should go, hopefully they offered him something like $3M. We don't need him.

I'd rather keep AA and Mantha all season long.

Edited June 8, 2016 by LeftWinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

I couldn't agree more. I'll be kind of pissed if we re-sign Miller again, even if it's one year at league minimum (which it wouldn't be). There are countless other players in the organization that could step in and provide more than what Miller does. He's the definition of a plug. Move on Kenny...

[plopster 136]

This is pretty awesome. The wild one is the best and pens one is appropriate. Would like to see all the teams. I think stars and Devils would be easy.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/16044186/nhl-national-hockey-league-team-logos-redesigned-las-vegas

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

I couldn't agree more. I'll be kind of pissed if we re-sign Miller again, even if it's one year at league minimum (which it wouldn't be). There are countless other players in the organization that could step in and provide more than what Miller does. He's the definition of a plug. Move on Kenny...

It's the same problem we keep having ... Being way too loyal to player

Would I like helm to resign? Sure but not at 3-4 per which he's gonna get , he's most likely gonna fall down to the 3rd-4th line eventually ... Signing helm close to 4 per let's say and Miller would take away 2 roster spots and we already have nosek and frk out of waivers I believe? Athanasiou Larkin mantha most likely all starting next year

We sign those 2 guys Pulkkinen/jurco/nosek/frk could possibly all be gone just to make room for yet again ... Vets

Never ends

Edited June 8, 2016 by nyqvististhefuture

[joesuffP 1,746]

Resigning Miller to a safe 1 year deal would be the smart move. I don't know how you would expect AHLers who haven't even combined for 10 NHL games could step in and be better than the teams best penalty killer. Not to mention Calahan and Nosek are midgets

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

I think it's Miller's time to go. He's been good for us, but his injury adds a question mark and I do think we can replace him with someone as capable and maybe more rounded. If Glen, Sheahan, Abby, Helm is our PK, then we don't have to worry about losing his PK abilities.

Sadly, if we want Miller, we'll get him since his injury will scare any other team away. 1 year wouldn't be the end of the world, but I'd rather someone take that spot with more speed and a little more speed and scoring (maybe Callahan, Bertuzzi).

I'd like to resign Helm - up to 3 mill is good for him.

But Helm will get interest elsewhere and might opt for a place where he's not 2nd line for 2 games, 4th for a couple, 1st for half a game, etc. Though I've always seen that as one of his strengths - that he can play in many situations - I've gathered for his off-season comments that this has been his gripe. It would be hard for a player to get going not knowing what you're role is. I think this can account for his slight dip in production this year as well.

Edited June 8, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[krsmith17 7,191]

When people constantly talk up "Miller's penalty killing", do they even bother looking up the stats? He's not even close to our best penalty killer. That honor goes to Helm and it's not even close. Miller is "good defensively" because he literally doesn't do anything else but defend. He provides zero offense. There's not a question in my mind that we have players with under 10 games in the NHL that could step in and do a much better job than Miller, on the penalty kill and even strength...

[joesuffP 1,746]

Penalty killing is a team stat no advanced statistics is going to show you this guy was a good penalty killer on a bad penalty killing team. The fact that when we had a good penalty kill he was used as the primary penalty killer and when watching appeared to be the best penalty killer and when he was hurt we had a very bad penalty kill is enough. Don't need the winging it in Motown analysis how glendening is the worst player in the nhl and AA is the next Sidney Crosby. These stats are often flawed

Edited June 8, 2016 by joesuffP

[kipwinger 8,522]

Except that's not true at all. You absolutely CAN isolate individuals performances using advanced stats. In simple terms, by aggregating the shots for and against accrued by a players most frequent linemates when said player is on the ice w/them vs. when they aren't and someone else is. Its no different than measuring someone's possession numbers, just in reverse. Instead of counting the shots for, you'd count the shots against. And I assume you're perfectly fine with those stats, you've used them repeatedly in the past to analyze the play of Brendan Smith. And using those same measures you find that Miller's unit gives up a ton of chances when he's on the ice rather than say Jurco or Anderson. Probably because despite his shot blocking, he's too slow and weak to gain control of the puck, and too unskilled to advance it when he does. Either way, Miller sucks.

Edited June 8, 2016 by kipwinger

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Hopefully Miller moves on. He could get more money on the open market, his PK abilities are highly overrated (numbers back this up, if you don't follow Prashanth Iyer on twitter, do it) and he's a boat anchor at even strength. Nosek/Callahan/etc. can give us everything Drew does for cheaper.

Nosek is too slow, and the others you're talking about haven't proven anything. Bring a couple of them in as reserves and let them force Miller out of the lineup. As long as he gets around $1 mil, sending him down wouldn't be an issue if need be.

[kickazz 5,459]

Should move on from Miller. I have no idea why Holland wants to hold on to him. We've got a ton of talent coming through. Would not be sad if Helm decided to walk away as well. AA will basically be a better version of Helm for cheaper and much higher ceiling. If Helm takes $3 million or less I'm okay with it but I'm assuming he'd test free agency where he'll make good money.

Edited June 8, 2016 by kickazz

[poel 28]

When people constantly talk up "Miller's penalty killing", do they even bother looking up the stats? He's not even close to our best penalty killer. That honor goes to Helm and it's not even close. Miller is "good defensively" because he literally doesn't do anything else but defend. He provides zero offense. There's not a question in my mind that we have players with under 10 games in the NHL that could step in and do a much better job than Miller, on the penalty kill and even strength...

You must have confused Helm with Glendening or Abdelkader. Either that or you are Darren Helm.

The guy is completely useless. "Players" like Helm are, apart from obviously family and maybe health problems, the reason why Datsyuk won't return to Detroit. All season long he was chasing pucks in the defensive zone because Tatar or Helm kept on losing it almost every damn time they had it. Tatar at least got some skills and put up a few points. Helm has zero skills and did s***. More turnovers per game than points all season long...despite playing on Datsyuk's line for many many games.

The only time Pavels line, no matter if on the PP or 5vs5 worked and established some momentum on a regular basis was when Mantha played on his wing. They may put up some points but after all the line was completely useless without Mantha...and trust me, it wasn't just Pav's fault...

[poel 28]

Should move on from Miller. I have no idea why Holland wants to hold on to him. We've got a ton of talent coming through. Would not be sad if Helm decided to walk away as well. AA is basically a better version of Helm for cheaper and much higher ceiling. If Helm takes $3 million or less I'm okay with it but I'm assuming he'd test free agency where he'll make good money.

If you got a talent pool like ours, you don't need Helm. I'd like to keep Miller though. Every team needs experienced players and he's a leader and heart and soul guy. Plus, most importantly, he reads the game very well and is steady like a rock. Younger players don't give you that. I like Athanasiou, but he's no 4th liner. A 4th line with Miller, Sheahan and Glendening would be somewhat ideal.

3 Millions for Helm would be a total waste. Let's leave this deal for Garth Snow...

[joesuffP 1,746]

What a coincidence defensive forwards with hard assignments have worse possession numbers than sheltered offensive guys

[krsmith17 7,191]

No, I am not confusing Helm with anyone. The guy has been our best penalty killer and he is one of the best bottom 6 guys in the entire league. Stats prove this. But you can keep with your "Helm sucks" theory... I get that some people don't want to pay him a ton because he is a bottom sixer, but he is a very valuable piece to any team. Miller sucks and isn't worth a fraction of what Helm is. I'd rather pay Helm $3M then Miller $1M, but that's just my opinion...

[poel 28]

No, I am not confusing Helm with anyone. The guy has been our best penalty killer and he is one of the best bottom 6 guys in the entire league. Stats prove this. But you can keep with your "Helm sucks" theory... I get that some people don't want to pay him a ton because he is a bottom sixer, but he is a very valuable piece to any team. Miller sucks and isn't worth a fraction of what Helm is. I'd rather pay Helm $3M then Miller $1M, but that's just my opinion...

Is it you, Darren?

I'd rather have Miller for 2 millions than Helm for free. Helm isn't a little bit tough or steady so he's completely useless as bottom six player. All he got is his speed. He mostly played along Datsyuk last season and he did nothing but to turn over the puck. If he had any value whatsoever, Pavel's line would have been far better. The line didn't work because Pav had to do it all. I'd rather give Helm's spot to a prospect than to have him back. No matter in what role and for what money.

Watching guys like Helm, Tatar or Nyquist is like a neverending nightmare. I just can't do it anymore and desperately wish back even players like Brunner or Hudler. There's zero understanding for whatever situation, zero toughness, zero defensive awareness. At least Nyquist and Tatar got some skills and score from time to time. Helm does exactly nothing but turning over pucks.

Edited June 8, 2016 by poel

[kickazz 5,459]

Darren Helm had less turnovers than Pavel Datsyuk and Zetterberg last season lol.

If you got a talent pool like ours, you don't need Helm. I'd like to keep Miller though. Every team needs experienced players and he's a leader and heart and soul guy. Plus, most importantly, he reads the game very well and is steady like a rock. Younger players don't give you that. I like Athanasiou, but he's no 4th liner. A 4th line with Miller, Sheahan and Glendening would be somewhat ideal.

3 Millions for Helm would be a total waste. Let's leave this deal for Garth Snow...

On the contrary, I'd say you need Helm more than Miller. Helm is a centerman that can play wing, Miller can't play center. What exactly does Miller do that Helm can't? Block shots? Blocking shots shouldn't be a reason to keep someone on your roster. AA is our replacement for Helm not Miller. Our replacement for Miller would be someone like Callahan or Bertuzzi from GR.

Looking at the numbers here, Helm throws more hits than Miller, he scores more goals, he has more assists and points per game, he has far greater possession metrics. Helm has 9 career short handed goals to Miller's 3. Almost every aspect of the game, whether it's offense or defense aside Helm is better than Miller. Except blocking shots. Also Helm is the fastest skater on the team. Miller isn't even close. Helm is just better plain and simple lol.

And my references are -

http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/h/helmda01.html

http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/_/id/3521/darren-helm

https://puckalytics.com/skatercorsistats.html

Edited June 8, 2016 by kickazz

[poel 28]

Darren Helm had less turnovers than Pavel Datsyuk and Zetterberg last season lol.

Helm might have less per game than Datsyuk and Zetterberg all season long. And I doubt even that. Don't use nhl.com statistics. As good as they are for other things...take- and giveaways are really random and the numbers way too low.

Edited June 8, 2016 by poel

[krsmith17 7,191]

Hahahaha Helm >>>>> Miller, and it's not even remotely close... I can't even believe this is a conversation...

[kickazz 5,459]

I too get annoyed when Helm overplays the puck and tries to make plays he shouldn't be. I also think Miller is a heart and soul guy and a good leader. But putting aside emotions and all that, Helm is a better hockey player than Miller. This is widely known, there shouldn't much of a discussion here on that topic.

Edited June 9, 2016 by kickazz