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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

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Paying a check line player $3 mil is dumb. Speed is useless if that's all you have, otherwise Rico Fata would have been a star. Miller or a similar player at $1 mil is more valuable than Helm at 3 just because they could use that extea money to improve another area.

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Paying a check line player $3 mil is dumb. Speed is useless if that's all you have, otherwise Rico Fata would have been a star. Miller or a similar player at $1 mil is more valuable than Helm at 3 just because they could use that extea money to improve another area.

He played 2nd line 2015 and rotated between 2nd and 3rd in 2016 season. Why pay Miller the $1 million at all? To kill penalties? I'd rather transition Larkin and AA into that role. So what's Miller's use once that's taken care of? It's not like our PK is league best or even close to it.

I love Miller, but I think this team needs to quit wasting it's time and figure out what's best. Enough with signing guys that are replaceable for cheaper. And if Helm wants to get paid then let him walk. We have AA. Both these guys are replaceable.

I'm more concerned about losing Datsyuk and signing a top 3 forward.

Edited by kickazz

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I disagree. One of the best 3rd line centers that can play top 6 wing in a pinch, is much, much more valuable than a guy that can't play anywhere but 4th line wing. That's not even taking into consideration that Helm is better at virtually every single aspect of the game. An extra $2M is nothing for the significant difference there is between the two players...

Miller sucks and shouldn't be re-signed even if it's for one year at league minimum. Helm is a very good bottom 6 player and should be re-signed, as long as he's willing to play strictly in the bottom 6 and he signs a fair contract.

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Define "3rd line." Is it your third best line? Your checking shut down D line? Helm isn't big enough to play like Abdelkader, and can't pass, shoot, or stick handle well enough to be productive in any other role. That's not a $3 mil player.

Blashcock wants his check line to play safe, boring hockey. That's why you get guys like Miller and Glendening on cheap short term deals and when you get a kid who shows he can do that job effectively, you let the vet go. A $3 mil player doing that is a waste of cap space.

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Sign Miller for very close to 1M for a year... If he doesn't work out then he doesn't play. No worries. I got no problem with short term deals to help the team stay afloat

I am very interested to see what DD gets. Considering Abby got such a ridiculous deal. Imo there's no reason to hand him a 6-8 year deal but he probably will

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Sign Miller for very close to 1M for a year... If he doesn't work out then he doesn't play. No worries. I got no problem with short term deals to help the team stay afloat

I am very interested to see what DD gets. Considering Abby got such a ridiculous deal. Imo there's no reason to hand him a 6-8 year deal but he probably will

RFA deal vs. UFA deal. Totally different animal. I would love to sign DD to 6 years now, though, while his bargaining power is lower as as RFA.

I think the time for keeping the team afloat is over. We have promising prospects lets keep the transition going.

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I disagree. One of the best 3rd line centers that can play top 6 wing in a pinch, is much, much more valuable than a guy that can't play anywhere but 4th line wing. That's not even taking into consideration that Helm is better at virtually every single aspect of the game. An extra $2M is nothing for the significant difference there is between the two players...

Miller sucks and shouldn't be re-signed even if it's for one year at league minimum. Helm is a very good bottom 6 player and should be re-signed, as long as he's willing to play strictly in the bottom 6 and he signs a fair contract.

This is priceless. What on earth makes you think that Helm would be able to play top 6 wing? Name me only one game where Datsyuk's line was dominant with Helm on it. Only one. Pretty surely you won't even find one. The reason is simple enough. Helm is a plug. He can skate but he cannot handle or protect the puck, he cannot hit, he cannot pass, he cannot shoot and he has no idea how to play without the puck.

Though he spent almost all season on Datsyuk's wing and played lots of PP, apart from his turnovers, all he produced were either individual efforts thanks to his speed or given points for which Datsyuk is 99% responsible. Helm contributed literally nothing but hurt the line a lot by turning over pucks. Datsyuk is an excellent two way forward but he would have been far more effective with different linemates. He needs guys who help him recovering pucks and doing the physical stuff along the boards and in the slot. Instead he had to deal with linemates who needed his help to survive.

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Define "3rd line." Is it your third best line? Your checking shut down D line? Helm isn't big enough to play like Abdelkader, and can't pass, shoot, or stick handle well enough to be productive in any other role. That's not a $3 mil player.

Blashcock wants his check line to play safe, boring hockey. That's why you get guys like Miller and Glendening on cheap short term deals and when you get a kid who shows he can do that job effectively, you let the vet go. A $3 mil player doing that is a waste of cap space.

Just like we did with Draper, Maltby, McCarty, etc? We've done pretty well keeping consistent bottom 6ers.

You are going to be very disappointed in the years to come. I'm sure we will keep Glendening for many years. His contract is only that low because we were lucky to sign an undrafted player before he'd played much in the NHL. Finding players in that situation, which turn out to be any good will be rare.

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I too get annoyed when Helm overplays the puck and tries to make plays he shouldn't be. I also think Miller is a heart and soul guy and a good leader. But putting aside emotions and all that, Helm is a better hockey player than Miller. This is widely known, there shouldn't much of a discussion here on that topic.

I'm not so sure. What makes you think so? Helm is faster than Miller but Miller isn't slow at all. Miller is clearly not a skilled guy, he's a 4th liner. But like I explained already in other posts, Helm has almost no upside apart from his speed. Almost every Grand Rapids forward has a better skillset than him.

Helm hasn't been able to protect or pass the puck properly all season long. Miller knows very well how to carry the puck and he usually finds open ice while Helm just runs into the next best opponent. Maybe Helm can do more than he did so far but if he's too dumb to show his skills it doesn't make it any better.

What I see is that Miller is a leader and Helm isn't, that Miller can protect the puck and Helm can't and that Miller is consistent while Helm isn't. Even for the same amount of money, right now, I'd take Miller over Helm 100 out of 100 times.

I'm sick and tired of watching turnover machines. Let them all go or trade them away. Give the prospects a chance, sign FA's or trade for players...I don't care anymore. I've just seen enough of that crap.

Edited by poel

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This is priceless. What on earth makes you think that Helm would be able to play top 6 wing? Name me only one game where Datsyuk's line was dominant with Helm on it. Only one. Pretty surely you won't even find one. The reason is simple enough. Helm is a plug. He can skate but he cannot handle or protect the puck, he cannot hit, he cannot pass, he cannot shoot and he has no idea how to play without the puck.

Though he spent almost all season on Datsyuk's wing and played lots of PP, apart from his turnovers, all he produced were either individual efforts thanks to his speed or given points for which Datsyuk is 99% responsible. Helm contributed literally nothing but hurt the line a lot by turning over pucks. Datsyuk is an excellent two way forward but he would have been far more effective with different linemates. He needs guys who help him recovering pucks and doing the physical stuff along the boards and in the slot. Instead he had to deal with linemates who needed his help to survive.

He said play top 6 "in a pinch" and then said he needs to agree to play bottom 6 role strictly. You turned what he said around hard.

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I am very interested to see what DD gets. Considering Abby got such a ridiculous deal. Imo there's no reason to hand him a 6-8 year deal but he probably will

DD will get paid. But I don't think it will be ridiculous. He's a hometown guy and is getting married soon to a hometown girl (this summer). I doubt he wants to move out of the area he grew up in. His deal should be fair on both ends. I'm more curious about Petr Mrazek to be honest. He could hit arbitration.

Edited by kickazz

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He said play top 6 "in a pinch" and then said he needs to agree to play bottom 6 role strictly. You turned what he said around hard.

I didn't. Helm didn't do well in any of his games alongside Pavel. It's not enough to score a goal after a breakaway and apart from that to chase the puck for 15min. Not if you play in a top6 role alongside Pavel. Play Miller alongside Pavel for one season and I bet he will score at least Helm's 26 points. While making significantly less mistakes...

Also, Helm would need to be waay more consinstent and tough to be able to play in a bottom 6 role.

Edited by poel

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I don't want either of them back to be honest, but some of the things being said about Miller... lol. The guy is a plug, plain and simple. Average PKer, boat anchor at 5on5, not a speedy player to begin with coming off a major knee injury, and a non-physical 4th liner.

I blame Kenny for this, only he would have fans arguing over plugs coming back over and over :lol:

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Miller was a key component in shutting down the Johnson line and Tampa's power play last playoffs. This year that one line pretty much single handedly beat us. Saying he's good for nothing is just wrong. Him and Glendening are easily the two best defensive forwards on the team. If you can't score at least be good at something.... I'm looking at you Jurco. Miller actually provides similar production

Edited by joesuffP

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Miller was a key component in shutting down the Johnson line and Tampa's power play last playoffs. This year that one line pretty much single handedly beat us. Saying he's good for nothing is just wrong. Him and Glendening are easily the two best defensive forwards on the team. If you can't score at least be good at something.... I'm looking at you Jurco

Correction. Johnson single handedly decimated the Wings last year while Datsyuk + Glendening kept Stamkos scoreless in the entire series. Your point makes Miller look bad not good. Johnson was the primary reason we lost the series last year.

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Correction. Johnson single handedly decimated the Wings last year while Datsyuk + Glendening kept Stamkos scoreless in the entire series. Your point makes Miller look bad not good. Johnson was the primary reason we lost the series last year.

Didn't Miller and glendening play on the same line?

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Didn't Miller and glendening play on the same line?

No you're right, I meant to say Datsyuk + Helm was against Stamkos' line while Glendening + Miller was against Johnson line. But you see the point I'm trying to make?

Stamkos was kept without a goal when matched up against Datsyuk/Helm, while Johnson tore apart the Wings when matched up with Glendening/Miller.

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No you're right, I meant to say Datsyuk + Helm was against Stamkos' line while Glendening + Miller was against Johnson line. But you see the point I'm trying to make?

Stamkos was kept without a goal when matched up against Datsyuk/Helm, while Johnson tore apart the Wings when matched up with Glendening/Miller.

Really?

I can see only two options why you and a good amount of others write posts like this:

1.) Darren Helm has multiple accounts here

2.) Darren Helm pays people to praise him in here.

No serious human being would ever write posts like this without one of those reasons. No, Helm isn't a great 3rd liner and no, he isn't worth 3 millions. Not even close. Also this post is ridiculously wrong. In fact it couldn't be more wrong. Helm and co f***ed it up. This game for example:

http://redwings.nhl.com/gamecenter/en/recap?id=2014030124

1st Tampa goal is typical for Helm. He turns the puck over but he doesn't do anything to get the puck back. That's what happens all the time. Almost every freaking Helm shift is like that. I don't wanna see this anymore and it's completely impossible not to see it. Still you guys keep telling us here how good Helm is. Maddening...

Edited by poel

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Just like we did with Draper, Maltby, McCarty, etc? We've done pretty well keeping consistent bottom 6ers.

You are going to be very disappointed in the years to come. I'm sure we will keep Glendening for many years. His contract is only that low because we were lucky to sign an undrafted player before he'd played much in the NHL. Finding players in that situation, which turn out to be any good will be rare.

No cap vs. cap.

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Miller was a key component in shutting down the Johnson line and Tampa's power play last playoffs. This year that one line pretty much single handedly beat us. Saying he's good for nothing is just wrong. Him and Glendening are easily the two best defensive forwards on the team. If you can't score at least be good at something.... I'm looking at you Jurco. Miller actually provides similar production

Jurco has been pretty ineffective, I agree. Also, I'd like him to use his body a little more. Still, he's not our problem. He's been good. He doesn't score but he's been solid and he's a good possession player. If they get him to play harder with a bit of an edge I'd play him. His production will come sooner or later.

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Yes, everyone that thinks Helm is a very good bottom 6 forward is actually Helm in disguise. In fact, Helm has already been gone for a full season. He left for Toronto for whopping $50M last spring. No wait, wasn't Helm the guy that coached the Red Wings into the playoffs last season? Or was he that guy leaving for Russia known as the "Magic Man"? Or maybe he's that bald guy with glasses that knows everything hockey related between the glass on NBC?... I'm so confused, there are way too many Darren Helm's...

No matter how many times you say "Helm sucks", it's not going to make it true... Pretty much every advanced stat out there proves you wrong. But year, keep beating that drum, you obviously know better than NHL GM's, coaches, players, analysts, and the majority of fans... :rolleyes:

Although, Id prefer to get him locked up for under $3M, he absolutely is worth every bit of 3, and he will get that or more whether he signs here or elsewhere this summer...

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