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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

By Hockeytown0001, in General

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romagoth    47

romagoth
Posted

Is it you, Darren?

I'd rather have Miller for 2 millions than Helm for free. Helm isn't a little bit tough or steady so he's completely useless as bottom six player. All he got is his speed. He mostly played along Datsyuk last season and he did nothing but to turn over the puck. If he had any value whatsoever, Pavel's line would have been far better. The line didn't work because Pav had to do it all. I'd rather give Helm's spot to a prospect than to have him back. No matter in what role and for what money.

Watching guys like Helm, Tatar or Nyquist is like a neverending nightmare. I just can't do it anymore and desperately wish back even players like Brunner or Hudler. There's zero understanding for whatever situation, zero toughness, zero defensive awareness. At least Nyquist and Tatar got some skills and score from time to time. Helm does exactly nothing but turning over pucks.

lol ok

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MrazekFanBoy    223

MrazekFanBoy
Posted

Be wary of long term deals when we're a transitioning team. I'm not saying we'll regret it but having no flexibility is what got us in this mess

ohh ok I thought you were saying he wouldn't be worth it lol

This might be the quote of the year and it's only June.

besides Reilly and Matthews whats special about Toronto, keep in mind that we have Dekeyser Mrazek Larkin Svechnikov and Mantha could still surprise us even though he's probably definitely going to be a thirty goal scorer on this team if Tats and Goose can get up there.

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Jacksoni    418

Jacksoni
Posted

ohh ok I thought you were saying he wouldn't be worth it lol

besides Reilly and Matthews whats special about Toronto, keep in mind that we have Dekeyser Mrazek Larkin Svechnikov and Mantha could still surprise us even though he's probably definitely going to be a thirty goal scorer on this team if Tats and Goose can get up there.

Their AHL team the Toronto Marlies is stacked with up and coming talent which is just getting ready, much more so than almost all affiliate teams. That's not to say that it will translate to the NHL of course but statistics say that they will have some really nice goodies coming up, and soon.

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poel    28

poel
Posted

No you're right, I meant to say Datsyuk + Helm was against Stamkos' line while Glendening + Miller was against Johnson line. But you see the point I'm trying to make?

Stamkos was kept without a goal when matched up against Datsyuk/Helm, while Johnson tore apart the Wings when matched up with Glendening/Miller.

I didn't say anything about the Tampa series. You're confusing me with someone else, just as you're confusing me with a very talented NHL player. Anyway, I'm done with this conversation, but you can continue on with your trolling. You're doing a great job so far. Keep it up bud!

Do I? So basically what you're saying is that you're not Darren Helm? :lol:

Ok. It was another account, but probably still Helm or paid by Helm. Some of you guys are completely ludacris and even start lying to defend Helm.

kickazz' comment couldn't be any more wrong as it was exactly the other way around.

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poel    28

poel
Posted

Yup...because I said that's all we needed this off-season...

Quit manipulating other peoples statements to fit what you want to argue about.

Also Nielsen would have led our team in scoring this year. But call him a depth player all you want...

I don't care how many Nielsen-like players we could land...I want none of them. New York isn't Detroit. No way he would have led us in scoring.

I want pure top6 material only. Players like Boedker, Radulov, Okposo. Plus maybe Brouwer as he's a clutch player and very versatile.

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VM1138    1,921

VM1138
Posted

I don't care how many Nielsen-like players we could land...I want none of them. New York isn't Detroit. No way he would have led us in scoring.

I want pure top6 material only. Players like Boedker, Radulov, Okposo. Plus maybe Brouwer as he's a clutch player and very versatile.

If we can improve any area we do it. Nielsen is pretty clutch, isn't he? From what little I've see if him Id say he'd be a good fit with the way we need to transform the roster. Adding one or two top sixers and a defensemen won't be enough. We need a total transformation and our fourth line is garbage and our third line could use a boost.

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PavelValerievichDatsyuk    1,935

PavelValerievichDatsyuk
Posted

We've had a number of players playing above their ideal spot. And it has lead to many people turning against those players. But I don't understand it - it's not their fault that Blash didn't put Tatar or Nyquist in our top 6 or that we don't have the franchise Dman.

To me Helm is the perfect 3rd line player.

Ericsson would be fine used as a number 4 guy and off the first pair

Abby is not a 'typical' 1st line player, but is there to add grit and a net front presence - a different version of Holmstrom

I think Helm did fine with Datsyuk, but it wasn't ideal. Tatar and a healthy Franzen would have been good. Have Richards on the line made things worse when he was there. Partly roster mismanagement, partly a team in transition. To me, Helm is the 3rd line center who always put in huge effort, is great at faceoffs, great pker and supplies secondary scoring, is responsible defensively (I have no idea where the turnover-machine idea comes from - one site says he had the 2nd least of our regulars).

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poel    28

poel
Posted (edited)

We've had a number of players playing above their ideal spot. And it has lead to many people turning against those players. But I don't understand it - it's not their fault that Blash didn't put Tatar or Nyquist in our top 6 or that we don't have the franchise Dman.

To me Helm is the perfect 3rd line player.

Ericsson would be fine used as a number 4 guy and off the first pair

Abby is not a 'typical' 1st line player, but is there to add grit and a net front presence - a different version of Holmstrom

I think Helm did fine with Datsyuk, but it wasn't ideal. Tatar and a healthy Franzen would have been good. Have Richards on the line made things worse when he was there. Partly roster mismanagement, partly a team in transition. To me, Helm is the 3rd line center who always put in huge effort, is great at faceoffs, great pker and supplies secondary scoring, is responsible defensively (I have no idea where the turnover-machine idea comes from - one site says he had the 2nd least of our regulars).

This post couldn't be any more wrong. Helm isn't even a suitable 4th liner. He doesn't even possess the basic skills or he's not able to show it at NHL level. He was besides Andersson easily our worst forward the last two seasons. No scoring, only mistakes. Just speed isn't enough. His turnovers hurt us badly...for a long time. Too long.

Helm did fine with Datsyuk? Which game you're talking about? Datsyuk's line had no momentum almost no season long and despite Pav's probably still one of the best possession players in the whole NHL.

Tatar and Nyquist did play in the top 6 and they were terrible each and every time they got a chance. I'm sure Blashill would have liked to give Larkin more chances as 3rd center but with Nyquist and Tatar being that bad he just wasn't able to. The only thing I blame Blashill for is that he didn't continue to play Mantha. Powerplay was a lot better without him but he just ignored that fact. Also, Datsyuk's line was useless all season long except when Mantha was on Pav's wing.

Nyquist and Tatar are not trusted...for good reasons. Just like Helm they're turning over pucks, aren't physical enough and their play against the puck is way below everything I've seen in many years. I had high hopes for both of them but the fact that there's 0,00 improvement tells me that they should have been traded 1 year go. In fact, Tatar was even better than now in his rookie season. He was like a wrecking ball, hitting everyone, playing with lots of intensity and also backchecking very well. This season he was really bad, just floating around making stupid plays. There was that scene where he lost the puck in the offensive zone and then basically standing watched Philly (I think it was) scoring. He didn't even make it to own blue line. Kinda symbolic for his season. He doesn't look like he's overly motivated.

Nyquist probably wants to give his best but he just doesn't seem to get it. Ever since he was responsible for that OT playoffout vs Blackhawks he didn't improve his defensive game or awareness the slightest bit. We all know about his playmaking skills and I know that we could use them in our top6 but if you can play a non physical player that makes that many mistakes on any line it's probably the 3rd line.

I also blamed Blashill for several things but it's really not his fault that he couldn't play Tatar and Nyquist in the top6 on a regular basis. He tried it several times but it just didn't work out.

Ericsson played on the 2nd pair for several games. And to be honest, I didn't see any signs of improvement. He's just terrible. Always was but now he's getting slower and slower and Kronwall is getting older, too it's just terrible. Kronwall was able to help him out for years but it's really not working anymore. Ericsson is a 3rd pairing defender at best.

Abdelkader currently is, by far, our best winger. Which, I hope you all agree, isn't necessarily a good thing. If Larkin in his rookie season is our 2nd best winger it doesn't make it any better.

To me Helm is the perfect 3rd line player.

I think Helm did fine with Datsyuk, but it wasn't ideal. Tatar and a healthy Franzen would have been good. Have Richards on the line made things worse when he was there. Partly roster mismanagement, partly a team in transition. To me, Helm is the 3rd line center who always put in huge effort, is great at faceoffs, great pker and supplies secondary scoring, is responsible defensively (I have no idea where the turnover-machine idea comes from - one site says he had the 2nd least of our regulars).

No you're right, I meant to say Datsyuk + Helm was against Stamkos' line while Glendening + Miller was against Johnson line. But you see the point I'm trying to make?

Stamkos was kept without a goal when matched up against Datsyuk/Helm, while Johnson tore apart the Wings when matched up with Glendening/Miller.

Can you please point out a single "lie" that anyone has told to "defend Helm"... I'd love to hear it...

That's easy. There are lots of them here but find my favourites above :lol:

Edited by poel

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poel    28

poel
Posted (edited)

Waaay too harsh on Helm. Stopped reading there. I thought the earlier analysis was spot on

Too many issues to fix in one offseason is basically the wings issue

Why too harsh? Why wouldn't you name those who are responsible for our problems? We were chasing the puck all season long...for good reasons. Sorry if I'm too honest for some here...but there's no point in denying facts. We're turning over too many pucks. And it's getting worse.

Edited by poel

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Helmethead    235

Helmethead
Posted (edited)

I'm retired from posting on this board but I must make a brief return just to say this and then I'll be retired again...

Poel, you are a complete moron. lol Mike Babcock once called Darren Helm the best 3rd line centre in the league. So you know more about hockey than he does?

Seriously...Helm isn't even a good 4th liner? Do you even watch hockey? So you're one of those guys who thinks you're right just because you say are. Guess what? You're completely wrong. Why? Because I said so. See, I know everything just like you do.

If Helm is so bad, then why is he in the NHL? How did he make it? Helm gives the puck away all the time? When? Once when you saw him play? Guess what genius...every player gives the puck away. I don't care how good you are.

So if Helm gives the puck away a lot (which he doesn't) then it must mean that he has the puck a lot of the time, yes? Or are his opponents just letting him always have the puck? Maybe, he has the puck alot because...he is a good player? Nah of course not! He is useless right?

Helm is an excellent third line player. He has speed, grit, tenacity and is solid defensively. If he is so bad then why is he consistently used late in games when protecting leads?

Only Andersson was worse than Helm last season? So you're saying guys like Jurco, Pulkkinen, Miller, Richards were better? Lol How?

If Helm is so bad then why are teams willing to sign him as a UFA this summer? He will likely get between 3-4 million per season on the open market. I don't think Holland Will 're-sign him because his hometown Winnipeg Jets likely will offer him more term and money.

Anyway, I'm done now and will go away again. I just wanted to let you, Poel, know that your posts about Darren Helm are the most idiotic posts I've ever read on a hockey message board.

Congrats,

Yours truly,

Darren Helm

Edited by Helmethead
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poel    28

poel
Posted (edited)

I'm retired from posting on this board but I must make a brief return just to say this and then I'll be retired again...

Poel, you are a complete moron. lol Mike Babcock once called Darren Helm the best 3rd line centre in the league. So you know more about hockey than he does?

Seriously...Helm isn't even a good 4th liner? Do you even watch hockey? So you're one of those guys who thinks you're right just because you say are. Guess what? You're completely wrong. Why? Because I said so. See, I know everything just like you do.

If Helm is so bad, then why is he in the NHL? How did he make it? Helm gives the puck away all the time? When? Once when you saw him play? Guess what genius...every player gives the puck away. I don't care how good you are.

So if Helm gives the puck away a lot (which he doesn't) then it must mean that he has the puck a lot of the time, yes? Or are his opponents just letting him always have the puck? Maybe, he has the puck alot because...he is a good player? Nah of course not! He is useless right?

Helm is an excellent third line player. He has speed, grit, tenacity and is solid defensively. If he is so bad then why is he consistently used late in games when protecting leads?

Only Andersson was worse than Helm last season? So you're saying guys like Jurco, Pulkkinen, Miller, Richards were better? Lol How?

If Helm is so bad then why are teams willing to sign him as a UFA this summer? He will likely get between 3-4 million per season on the open market. I don't think Holland Will 're-sign him because his hometown Winnipeg Jets likely will offer him more term and money.

Anyway, I'm done now and will go away again. I just wanted to let you, Poel, know that your posts about Darren Helm are the most idiotic posts I've ever read on a hockey message board.

Congrats,

Yours truly,

Darren Helm

Ok, Darren. Now you convinced me. Surely you're the best 3rd line Center ever seen. Your 26 points on a 2nd line next to Datsyuk prove that. Nobody else would have been able to score that many points while playing alongside a player as bad as Datsyuk. Also nobody on the redwings team comes even close to you when it comes down to grit or defensive play. You're so good I can't even find words to describe you. Maybe we should just offer you 10 millions and then trade you to NY in exchange for John Tavares.

Helm is a good checking line player. He's a bad scoring line player.

Yeah. He's well known and respected for his physical play. All of our opponents fear his hard checks and fighting skills...and please don't forget all the shots he blocks and his qualities as a shutdown forward. Darren Helm is the perfect checking line player.

Honestly, I'd bet that he couldn't even destroy midgets like Hudler or Gaudreau. Not even flies fear Darren Helm.

Edited by poel

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mackel    679

mackel
Posted

Helm is infinitely replaceable with a younger, cheaper player. Paying players like helm 3-5 million chews through your cap... paying a comparable player 750k-2 million even if that player isn't quite as good allows teams to have an elite player or two.

I don't much like Chicago but they have this right... lock up high end players for big cash and let them help make cheaper young players better. If my choice is one Stamkos for 10 million or all of Helm, Abdelkater and Richards (TYPE) for 10 million I'll take Stamkos every time!

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