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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

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1.) You're right, I don't know s***, except that Helm is one of the best bottom 6 forwards in the league, and Nyquist and Tatar are very good secondary scorers. And also that Holland does NOT "need" to move Datsyuk's contract, and won't unless it's a fair deal.

2.) Nope, you didn't say it once. You said it at least twice in the past few hours in this very thread... "We need the cap for free agency and teams like NJ or Arizona know that". "Listen, they're gonna want a lot knowing that the time ticks against us. We need the cap for Free Agency"...

Can you even read properly? If we need the cap, it's just for free agency. To sign some high end FA's. This doesn't mean that we need to do it. But trading the contract only makes any sense ahead of free agency. So if, a trade is gonna happen until then. Cause after, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Personally I'd like to move the contract if there's a good offer on the table but I never said that we'd need to do it.

I said that most likely Holland is desperate to move it. If that's the case it's gonna be a problem.

Edited by poel

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I know that Holland doesn't want to give away too much in order to clear the contract, but look at it this way, if NOT losing someone like Pulkkinen and a 2nd round pick lets say is more important than not having a chance at Stamkos, then he needs to be fired.

He'll probably be successful in trading Howard, but he won't be able to trade Ericsson, so unless he gets rid of Pavel along with Howard, there is 0 chance at landing Stamkos...or any UFA that will make this team better.

You get one chance to land a player like Stamkos. Like I said, if keeping Pulkkinen and a pick that may never make the NHL, then he has to go.

Not saying thats the deal, but in order to get the free cap hit, Pulkkinen and a pick is MORE than enough. If they are talking Mantha or AA, then there better be a prime player coming back.

Pavel - Pulkkinen - Pick is plenty enough for any cap cellar team. If Holland wont give that up, fire him. If teams expect more than that, then I guess we're screwed for ANY quality UFA.

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NerveDamage, yes I do believe it's possible to sign Stamkos without trading Datsyuk's contract. There are always other options, but of course ridding ourselves of that dead cap space would be the easiest route. If we can't trade the contract though, it is very possible to trade Ericsson and Howard and still be able to go after the biggest UFA fish.

As I've said before, Howard to a team like Calgary for a mid round pick and Ericsson to a team like Edmonton ($1M retained) for a mid to late round pick... Those two moves alone would give us $8.5M in cap space, along with the few million we'll have after we sign our remaining RFA's.

As for Helm, he's the only UFA's that I'd personally like back, and if we can sign him for under $3M, that would be great. I'd have one of Helm or Sheahan as our 3rd line center, depending on what our overall roster looks like come October...

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I agree marc, everyone that keeps comparing our situation with Datsyuk to Chicago's with Bickell is very frustrating. The two are not at all the same. Of course Carolina are going to want something substantial in return for taking his cap hit AND having to pay the remaining year salary. With Datsyuk there is no salary attached, so I do think one of the cap floor teams will take it, and for a reasonable price. Not giving up two top 6 forwards, a solid prospect and a pick haha.

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NerveDamage, yes I do believe it's possible to sign Stamkos without trading Datsyuk's contract. There are always other options, but of course ridding ourselves of that dead cap space would be the easiest route. If we can't trade the contract though, it is very possible to trade Ericsson and Howard and still be able to go after the biggest UFA fish.

As I've said before, Howard to a team like Calgary for a mid round pick and Ericsson to a team like Edmonton ($1M retained) for a mid to late round pick... Those two moves alone would give us $8.5M in cap space, along with the few million we'll have after we sign our remaining RFA's.

As for Helm, he's the only UFA's that I'd personally like back, and if we can sign him for under $3M, that would be great. I'd have one of Helm or Sheahan as our 3rd line center, depending on what our overall roster looks like come October...

Come on, realistically, no one is going to take Ericsson off our hands. The guy has been brutal at times with his inconsistency, and that contract isn't going to do anyone any favours.

If you ask me, KH is kinda f***ed here by this whole situation. Yes he hasn't helped himself with some of the deals he's made (or lack thereof) but like, Datsyuk leaving creates a huge problem.

Look at it this way:

1. If he sits and eats the $7.5m cap space, he's going to get torn to shreds because he's responsible for not being able to move that space and then we'd never even have a shot at competing to sign Stamkos, or for that matter, one or two of the better free agents out there. E.g. Backes.

2. If he is able to clear it, he'll have to give up someone he doesn't want to, and considering the fact that there's only one reasonable team that can take on that contract now, the price will be relatively high. So there'll be considerable backlash if he ends up having to give up say, Jurco plus a pick. And then what if he strikes out in free agency? No Stamkos, no Backes, no Okposo etc etc.

Really, I think Howard needs to be moved this offseason, but again, that's going to be even harder now with the expansion announcement coming. I'd love to see Ericsson shipped out, but again, who's going to take on that contract and give us a good return?

Ideally, I'd like tos ee the kids play. Give AA, Mantha, Ouellet and Sproul full time jobs and hand them the reigns. If we miss the playoffs then so be it. but having Datsyuk leave a year early with an already declining Zetterberg makes this decision to turn the page somewhat easier.

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Like Euro_Twins eluded to, for whatever reason, there's this notion that every other team's kids are a sure thing, but ours are all question marks... There's also a belief that we have all these "unmoveable contracts", but the same people are continuously surprised when teams around the league trade the same type of "s***ty players"...

Ericsson is a very serviceable 2nd / 3rd at worst defenseman in the NHL. It's not his fault our defense has been terrible for the past few years and he's been forced into a role above his talent level. $3.25M is a very reasonable cap hit for a player like Ericsson.

Look at Ladislav Smid, a similar player with a slightly higher cap hit, he was traded from Edmonton to Calgary along with a low end prospect for two low end prospects... Just a couple weeks ago Florida traded Erik Gudbranson, another similar type player, albeit younger and shorter term, along with a 5th round pick to Vancouver for a high end prospect, a 2nd and a 4th... of course there's only one year remaining on his deal, but that was a huge return for an average at best defenseman regardless...

There's absolutely no reason to believe that we couldn't trade Ericsson ($1M retained) along with a Pulkkinen or Frk to a team for a low pick or prospect...

I'd love to have Stamkos and like I said, trading Pav's contract would help a lot in terms of freeing up cap space, but it's not the only solution to the problem. As for Backes, he's going to be massively overpaid.

I agree on playing the kids.

Edited by krsmith17

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I still think when it's all said and done the contract will be gone , but holland is gonna sit back and let the teams go to him

And trust me they will , if teams like Chicago wanna be stupid and give up a teravainen, it doesn't mean we have to , and I don't care what some think but this contract has value to a team like Carolina who are in financial ruins and can save 7 million dollars by taking his contract

They'll come to us by the end of June begging for that contract

No, they won't.

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We only need to trade Datsyuk's contract if we land Stamkos. I'd hardly rip on Holland for eating the cap hit for a year if he knows we absolutely cannot land Stamkos. That's the only big transformative move to be made, otherwise it's all incremental UFA improvements which won't cost much.

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NerveDamage, yes I do believe it's possible to sign Stamkos without trading Datsyuk's contract. There are always other options, but of course ridding ourselves of that dead cap space would be the easiest route. If we can't trade the contract though, it is very possible to trade Ericsson and Howard and still be able to go after the biggest UFA fish.

As I've said before, Howard to a team like Calgary for a mid round pick and Ericsson to a team like Edmonton ($1M retained) for a mid to late round pick... Those two moves alone would give us $8.5M in cap space, along with the few million we'll have after we sign our remaining RFA's.

As for Helm, he's the only UFA's that I'd personally like back, and if we can sign him for under $3M, that would be great. I'd have one of Helm or Sheahan as our 3rd line center, depending on what our overall roster looks like come October...

Thanks, I wanted to know your take on this, I was going to ask, in my previous post, if moving Howard and Ericsson would be enough, but you just answer that as well.

So if not Stamkos, whom would you pursue for a 1C?

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I think we'll see some desperate moves by Holland coming up. If no team will take a reasonable deal for Datsyuk's cap hit them he'll focus on Howard and Ericsson. There's already a lot of talk of Howard being moved and Holland himself has mentioned the possibility. Then there's the Khan tweet of Ericsson being bought out. One way or another holland will be pursuing the top free agents. All signs point to it

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Nyquist and Tatar are no different than Kozlov, Flip, or Hudler... They can be moved to obtain Stammer if it is possible

Holland needs to do whatever it takes to move a few players and get rid of Dat's contract, eating that much amount of money is insane on top of Franzen's money

Edited by Rivalred

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Unfortunately, aside from Stamkos there aren't any viable options for a number one center via free agency. We could always elect to go the trade route, but if we're giving up high end assets to trade for a top level player, I'd much prefer it to be a number one defenseman than number one center, although both are a fairly significant need...

I don't think Larkin is quite ready to be a number one center, and I don't think Zetterberg has it in him anymore. Ideally Larkin is our number two center and Zetterberg flanks him on the wing or third line center. However, I'm not convinced that Holland and Blashill don't see Hank still as a capable number one, which is kind of scary...

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All this speculation is rather pointless. If Holland knows for sure that Stamkos has no interest (no matter the pricetag), in becoming a Red Wing then eating the caphit for one year isn't the end of the world. As great as Ladd, Looch, Backes and Yandle can be they aren't worth anything close to Stammer. If the price for moving the contract is anything more than one of Jurco/Pulkinnen + Second + Pasha then Holland is absolutely right to not do it and eat the cap.

Also it's funny that everyone is so focused on the usual suspects Florida/Arizona and Carolina yet Ottawa has an owner who looks to cut costs at every possible way so I'd try to work out a deal with them. Melynk could claim he spent to the cap yet he won't have to actually pay to the cap, sounds like a win-win for me. Also don't forget Pasha has to agree to a move because he has an NTC in his contract but I'm sure he would.

I think people are making way too big of a deal out of this. I've been critisized Holland for a lot of things and I believe rightfully so because this team has driven further and further away from the big goal but he is absolutely right to take a stance against getting bent over a 1 year contract in a NON cup contention year. Also I shudder at the notion of making Larkin the number 1 center, the guy isn't ready for it yet, period. I'd rather see him develop at his insane pace but not forcing things, like Smith stated no Stamkos means no number 1 center for the Wings next year, simple as that. Z with his demolished back shouldn't and can't be counted on to carry the load any longer lower his icetime and use him as a great third line center with an ATOI ~ 15 mins.

Also I find it funny, how much drama the media outlets are trying to create for the draft. Everyone knows the top 3 are basically set and not a whole lot will change.

Edited by frankgrimes

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I hope. But he's not gonna want to miss the playoffs so he's gonna move the contract despite the high cost. Therefore I think that a package would be best for us. Send Datsyuk,Tatar, Nyquist along with a prospect like Bertuzzi or a 2nd to Arizona in exchange for Hanzal. We free up a lot of cap and roster spots for our top prospects and even get the 2nd line Center we need.

Were not trading bertuzzi

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We only need to trade Datsyuk's contract if we land Stamkos. I'd hardly rip on Holland for eating the cap hit for a year if he knows we absolutely cannot land Stamkos. That's the only big transformative move to be made, otherwise it's all incremental UFA improvements which won't cost much.

And if you wait and can't move the contract later?

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And if you wait and can't move the contract later?

Then we are stuck with the cap hit, tank the season, and get a high draft pick that we can build the team around.

Oh and won't have to hear about the stupid streak anymore.

Edited by Datsyukian-Deke

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Were not trading bertuzzi

Why, he's going to be a 3rd liner at best, unless you're one of those people who think every prospect that might be an NHL player is untouchable?

Then we are stuck with the cap hit, tank the season, and get a high draft pick that we can build the team around.

If you sign Stamkis then try to trade the contract and cant, you're screwed. Trade it, then go for Stamkos.

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Why, he's going to be a 3rd liner at best, unless you're one of those people who think every prospect that might be an NHL player is untouchable?

If you sign Stamkis then try to trade the contract and cant, you're screwed. Trade it, then go for Stamkos.

Holland isn't stupid. He would never sign Stamkos if he didn't already have the room for him financially.

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Unfortunately, aside from Stamkos there aren't any viable options for a number one center via free agency. We could always elect to go the trade route, but if we're giving up high end assets to trade for a top level player, I'd much prefer it to be a number one defenseman than number one center, although both are a fairly significant need...

I don't think Larkin is quite ready to be a number one center, and I don't think Zetterberg has it in him anymore. Ideally Larkin is our number two center and Zetterberg flanks him on the wing or third line center. However, I'm not convinced that Holland and Blashill don't see Hank still as a capable number one, which is kind of scary...

He's not a top line player anymore. Larkin might never get there. Stamkos is the real deal, do what you can to get him.

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NerveDamage, yes I do believe it's possible to sign Stamkos without trading Datsyuk's contract. There are always other options, but of course ridding ourselves of that dead cap space would be the easiest route. If we can't trade the contract though, it is very possible to trade Ericsson and Howard and still be able to go after the biggest UFA fish.

As I've said before, Howard to a team like Calgary for a mid round pick and Ericsson to a team like Edmonton ($1M retained) for a mid to late round pick... Those two moves alone would give us $8.5M in cap space, along with the few million we'll have after we sign our remaining RFA's.

As for Helm, he's the only UFA's that I'd personally like back, and if we can sign him for under $3M, that would be great. I'd have one of Helm or Sheahan as our 3rd line center, depending on what our overall roster looks like come October...

This. It would take some creativity on Holland's part, but the team would only be in cap hell for just one season. They'd manage. Hopefully Holland has it in him to be willing to go over the cap if need be to try and lure him here. He'd have all summer to trim salary.

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Do people honestly think Stamkos will sign with Detroit? If so, what the hell for? He's basically from Toronto which, if folks take off their homer glasses, is on the rise. The Leafs have a great coach and lots of high picks in their future. Another option would be Buffalo. It's not terribly far from Toronto and is also on the rise. All Detroit can offer is similar proximity to Toronto and, aside from Larkin, a bunch of middling prospects and picks.

wut

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Dickie, when did I say we shouldn't do what we can to land Stamkos? I said Zetterberg isn't a top line center anymore and Larkin isn't there yet. I said Stamkos is the only number one center available through free agency, and we should go after him. Trading Datsyuk's contract is not the only way to do that though. There are other options we could explore, like trading Howard and Ericsson... I do think we will end up trading Pav's contract, but hopefully we're able to trade one or both of those guys as well...

I do want to keep Bertuzzi but he's far from untouchable, especially with the trade bringing in Sadowy. Both are projected to be bottom 6 agitators that can play a bit of a nasty game and produce some points...

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Dickie, when did I say we shouldn't do what we can to land Stamkos? I said Zetterberg isn't a top line center anymore and Larkin isn't there yet. I said Stamkos is the only number one center available through free agency, and we should go after him. Trading Datsyuk's contract is not the only way to do that though. There are other options we could explore, like trading Howard and Ericsson... I do think we will end up trading Pav's contract, but hopefully we're able to trade one or both of those guys as well...

I do want to keep Bertuzzi but he's far from untouchable, especially with the trade bringing in Sadowy. Both are projected to be bottom 6 agitators that can play a bit of a nasty game and produce some points...

Bertuzzi has been tremendous in the ahl playoffs , yes not NHL but he's been very impressive as where sadowy is still in the juniors and hasn't played one pro game yet ... Id personally wouldn't want to trade bertuzzi at all , if sadowy progresses we'll have 2 similar players and it'll be beneficial , we have too many of the same type of players as it is

This. It would take some creativity on Holland's part, but the team would only be in cap hell for just one season. They'd manage. Hopefully Holland has it in him to be willing to go over the cap if need be to try and lure him here. He'd have all summer to trim salary.

We have to try and shed salary first , then we'll just be in a Chicago Blackhawks situation where teams know we have to absolutely shed salary and then we'll get raped and lose a mantha/svechnikov

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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Why, he's going to be a 3rd liner at best, unless you're one of those people who think every prospect that might be an NHL player is untouchable?

If you sign Stamkis then try to trade the contract and cant, you're screwed. Trade it, then go for Stamkos.

Id consider trading him if we did a blockbuster deal to land a #1 dman , other than that no thanks , the kids been dynamite in the ahl playoffs and looks to be like someone who will always be there and rise to the occasion when the playoffs come along

Remember the good old days where the grind line always chipped in huge goals in the playoffs to help us win our cups? I see bertuzzi as a real potential important piece of the future grind line

We need those types of players , we have too many similar type hockey players on this team as it is

Edited by nyqvististhefuture

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