Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[kipwinger 8,521]

I hope that Anaheim giving Vatanen a big contract means Fowler will become available. Would be my first preference on defense.

He's got excellent possession numbers, logs a ton of minutes, has shown he can put up good offensive numbers, is big fast and athletic, and he has roots in Detroit. Plus, Anaheim is rumored to want a left winger for their top six. Something we could/should have a surplus of after free agency.

Edited June 21, 2016 by kipwinger

[Hey man nice shot! 144]

Interesting article by Pat Caputo:

http://www.themorningsun.com/sports/20160621/pat-caputo-ken-holland-pavel-datsyuk-detroit-red-wings-and-the-expiration-of-a-free-pass

Thanks for the read:) I myself am making my judgement of kenny post cap era this off season. I have been hesitant to write him off, but this is it for me. Show them all kenny!

Edited June 21, 2016 by Hey man nice shot!

[kipwinger 8,521]

I don't know how true it is but I read somewhere recently that Malkin struggled with Sullivan's new faster system. Supposedly he feels more comfortable in a slower more controlled offensive scheme. Could be the source of the rumors.

[kylee 727]

Thanks for the read:) I myself am making my judgement of kenny post cap era this off season. I have been hesitant to write him off, but this is it for me. Show them all kenny!

OK so - Jiri Hudler 5 year NMC, re-sign Drew Miller and "kick the tires" on Stamkos. How'd I do?

[kipwinger 8,521]

Me thinks the bigger question that needs to be asked is with this recent signing of Vatanen - does DD get a similar deal?

I say yes since he'll likely be our top Dman as it stands come October (barring any ufa signings/trades/etc).

Vatanen got 4 years at less than 5 million dollars. I'd be thrilled if Dekeyser signed a similar contract.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I hope that Anaheim giving Vatanen a big contract means Fowler will become available. Would be my first preference on defense.

He's got excellent possession numbers, logs a ton of minutes, has shown he can put up good offensive numbers, is big fast and athletic, and he has roots in Detroit. Plus, Anaheim is rumored to want a left winger for their top six. Something we could/should have a surplus of after free agency.

I'd trade Nyquist/Tatar+ in an instant for Fowler, exactly the type of defenceman we need. Not concerned that he's another LH shot since Kronwall/Ericsson don't figure to be here for much longer than two years at most.... hopefully.

[kipwinger 8,521]

I don't really care about the lefty righty thing either. We have enough righties to make balanced pairs now with Green, Marchenko, and maybe Sproul.

I wouldn't trade Tatar thought. I want a team based on possession and he's been one of the best possession forwards in the NHL for the last two years.

Edited June 21, 2016 by kipwinger

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I don't really care about the lefty righty thing either. We have enough righties to make balanced pairs now with Green, Marchenko, and maybe Sproul.

I wouldn't trade Tatar thought. I want a team based on possession and he's been one of the best possession forwards in the NHL for the last two years.

Yeah, of the two I'd much rather trade Nyquist. I just really like Fowler as a player.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

So I was checking the NHL trade rumour board and see that Detroit is a rumoured destination for:

-Rick Nash F

-Jacob Trouba D

-Tyler Bozak F

-Fedor Tyutin D

-Alex Edler D

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I don't really care about the lefty righty thing either. We have enough righties to make balanced pairs now with Green, Marchenko, and maybe Sproul.

I wouldn't trade Tatar thought. I want a team based on possession and he's been one of the best possession forwards in the NHL for the last two years.

Stats saying Tatar is one of the best forwards for that tells you how much stars can be off. He skates around refusing to pads then tries to skate through 3 defenders and either gets a weak shot or gives it up

[kipwinger 8,521]

All it means is that when he's on the ice the team directs more shots at the opposing net than they do if someone else is on the ice. In this respect the stats are quantifiably true. Maybe your perception is skewed. Either way I tend to put more faith in math than I do your eyeball test. But that's just me.

What's more, when you break down his WOWY stats you see that every individual he plays with directs more shots on net than if he weren't playing with them. Its pretty iron clad.

[VM1138 1,921]

You would imagine they'd have to give up quite a bit. Like...a lot. Any interest in Hossa? He's been on the block for a while now.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Bob McKenzie shot down those rumors today, said he spoke to Jim Rutherford and he laughed them off.

[poel 28]

All it means is that when he's on the ice the team directs more shots at the opposing net than they do if someone else is on the ice. In this respect the stats are quantifiably true. Maybe your perception is skewed. Either way I tend to put more faith in math than I do your eyeball test. But that's just me.

What's more, when you break down his WOWY stats you see that every individual he plays with directs more shots on net than if he weren't playing with them. Its pretty iron clad.

Like Babcock said a while ago...stats are nice to know but at the end of the day you judge by what you see...

Tatar was brutal recently...hard not to see that. In his rookie season he was a lot better, played with intensitiy. Last season he scored a few point but at the same time he was lazy and a turnover machine.

[Aethernum 276]

Like Babcock said a while ago...stats are nice to know but at the end of the day you judge by what you see...

Tatar was brutal recently...hard not to see that. In his rookie season he was a lot better, played with intensitiy. Last season he scored a few point but at the same time he was lazy and a turnover machine.

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?reportType=season&report=realtime&season=20152016&gameType=2&sort=giveaways&aggregate=0&teamId=17&pos=S

Why do I feel like "the eyeball test" is just a convenient way of saying "I'm choosing to believe what I want to believe"? Tatar was 12th on the team in giveaways. Of the players who were on ice for a comparable number of games, only Sheahan, Helm, and Glendening had fewer giveaways. All of the following had more turnovers, some despite not playing nearly as many games: Larkin, Nyquist, DK, Zetterberg, Ericsson, Green, Smith, Abby, and...wait for it...Datsyuk. (Admittedly, Datsyuk's takeaway/giveaway ratio is the best on the team, but he had more giveaways in 15 fewer games.)

Can we stop randomly selecting individuals to hate just because the whole team had a bad goal-scoring season? Please?

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

NHLPA decides to use the escalator, salary cap will be 73 million for this season. Floor is 54 million.

[poel 28]

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?reportType=season&report=realtime&season=20152016&gameType=2&sort=giveaways&aggregate=0&teamId=17&pos=S

Why do I feel like "the eyeball test" is just a convenient way of saying "I'm choosing to believe what I want to believe"? Tatar was 12th on the team in giveaways. Of the players who were on ice for a comparable number of games, only Sheahan, Helm, and Glendening had fewer giveaways. All of the following had more turnovers, some despite not playing nearly as many games: Larkin, Nyquist, DK, Zetterberg, Ericsson, Green, Smith, Abby, and...wait for it...Datsyuk. (Admittedly, Datsyuk's takeaway/giveaway ratio is the best on the team, but he had more giveaways in 15 fewer games.)

Can we stop randomly selecting individuals to hate just because the whole team had a bad goal-scoring season? Please?

I mentioned this a lot already...stats are precise but not in terms of take- and giveaways. The numbers are way too low and therefore the best players can be the worst and vice versa. Tatar was brutal no matter what you say. Helm was even worse. The fact that his turnover numbers are low tells everything about this stat.

Edited June 22, 2016 by poel

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

You would imagine they'd have to give up quite a bit. Like...a lot. Any interest in Hossa? He's been on the block for a while now.

At 37 with 5 years to go on his deal, I'd steer clear. I think he could go to a 'cap floor' team since his contract has started the big nose dive and 17/18 - 20/21 his actual salary will only 1 mill per despite the 5.275 caphit.

Edit: He has a NMC so I doubt he'd want to go to a team just meeting the floor. I even doubt he'd want any trade.

Edited June 22, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[Dabura 12,207]

Like Babcock said a while ago...stats are nice to know but at the end of the day you judge by what you see...

Tatar was brutal recently...hard not to see that. In his rookie season he was a lot better, played with intensitiy. Last season he scored a few point but at the same time he was lazy and a turnover machine.

You're making it sound like Babcock doesn't care much for stats as an evaluative tool -- which, of course, couldn't be further from the truth...

Babcock looks to learn more via advanced stats

Detroit Red Wings coach Mike Babcock is of the belief that the more information he can gather the better he will be at evaluating and running his team. That's why Babcock is interested in the growing movement of advanced statistical analysis in the NHL.

"Not only is it a great idea, but if you don't [start using analytics] you're going to fall behind," Babcock told NHL.com. "You have to be on the cutting edge. It was [Arizona Coyotes assistant general manager] Darcy Regier who said, 'If you didn't invent it, you have to be the second- or third-best copier, because if you're fourth or fifth you've got no chance.'"

Babcock said the Red Wings have not hired someone to serve as an analytics guru, but he said such a move is coming.

"Not quite yet, but 'yet' is the key word there," he said. "We will, for sure. We just have to."

The Boston Bruins, Toronto Maple Leafs and New Jersey Devils this summer have hired or promoted from within executives with statistical backgrounds. Pittsburgh Penguins general manager Jim Rutherford has talked about how he will incorporate analytics into the front office.

The Chicago Blackhawks and Los Angeles Kings have used analytics and have won the Stanley Cup twice each in the past five seasons. St. Louis Blues coach Ken Hitchcock is on record saying he uses analytics as part of his decision-making process for matchups and chemistry.

"I've seen so many analytics presentations it's not even funny," Babcock said. "Some of them have been very impressive and some of them I wasn't as impressed with, but I love the information. I absolutely love the information. We're in the information business, so how do you get it? And then you have to use your expertise to sort it out."

I think this might be the quote you're referring to:

"The best analytic groups are getting the best information, so you have to make sure the stats you're using are correct," Babcock said. "When a guy tells you how good this player is stat-wise and you and your general manager don't agree with him, well, we better go back and assess it. Just because the analytics like the player and we don't, well, then we don't. We'll make the decision. But if you're wrong, go back and take a look at it so you know why."

His point there isn't "At the end of the day, the stats don't matter. The only thing that matters is what you see." His point is more that the data isn't the final word. That you have to assess and assimilate the information and be willing and able to think critically about it.

One shouldn't make decisions based on stats alone, nor should one rely solely on the eye test. The two should complement each other.

[Dabura 12,207]

Tatar was brutal no matter what you say.

cool story bro

[Echolalia 2,961]

cool story bro

Dude some guy's eyeballs > quantifiable data. Get with it man.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?reportType=season&report=realtime&season=20152016&gameType=2&sort=giveaways&aggregate=0&teamId=17&pos=S

Why do I feel like "the eyeball test" is just a convenient way of saying "I'm choosing to believe what I want to believe"? Tatar was 12th on the team in giveaways. Of the players who were on ice for a comparable number of games, only Sheahan, Helm, and Glendening had fewer giveaways. All of the following had more turnovers, some despite not playing nearly as many games: Larkin, Nyquist, DK, Zetterberg, Ericsson, Green, Smith, Abby, and...wait for it...Datsyuk. (Admittedly, Datsyuk's takeaway/giveaway ratio is the best on the team, but he had more giveaways in 15 fewer games.)

Can we stop randomly selecting individuals to hate just because the whole team had a bad goal-scoring season? Please?

Give away and take aways are subjective, same with hits. I've seen games where I know Abdelkader or someone drilled 5 or 6 guys and got credited with 3 hits.

[poel 28]

Dude some guy's eyeballs > quantifiable data. Get with it man.

Depending on what data...yes. I'm not gonna tell you that Zetterberg is our best shot blocker or Nyquist our best hitter. But if data is misleading or not precise/accurate you rather trust your eyes.

[poel 28]

Give away and take aways are subjective, same with hits. I've seen games where I know Abdelkader or someone drilled 5 or 6 guys and got credited with 3 hits.

Can happen but the accuracy is still a lot higher in terms of hits. Take- and giveaways to me still seem absolutely random. Plus thw numbers are way too low. Season has 82 games and nhl.com wants to tell us that Datsyuk has the most takeaways with just 48. No need to be a genius to tell that that's ridiculous. Just 71 Givaways for Ericsson, too.

[mackel 679]

Interesting article by Pat Caputo:

http://www.themorningsun.com/sports/20160621/pat-caputo-ken-holland-pavel-datsyuk-detroit-red-wings-and-the-expiration-of-a-free-pass

This article is bang on... it should be read aloud at the next Illitch family gathering.