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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

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Mantha was very hyped upon being drafted, and for good reason. Very few are as high on him as they once were.. I'm just hoping he's having a good off season of work and comes to camp determined to make the roster. He certainly has the tools to be a difference maker at the NHL level, he's just gotta want it.

Little Bert has been one of the more exciting Griffins to watch over the past year. I still think he'll have another year down there though. Maybe be a bottom 6 injury call up this year.

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I agree with Dabura that Jurco / Pulkkinen are far superior than Miller / Ott, even in a 4th line role. I would much rather have players on the ice that I'm hoping will score, rather than players that I'm hoping won't get scored on... These "defensive players" are good at one thing, and that's providing defense, aka chasing the other team around the defensive zone and blocking a scattered shot... Sure, they're decent penalty killers, but there are so many other options on the team that are just as good or better in that role.

I'm not a huge Pulkkinen fan by any stretch, but he isn't the defensive liability that some make him out to be. His giveaway / takeaway ratio is even, and ranks around the middle on the team. His advanced stats on the other hand, are close to the tops on the team in just about every category. His corsi numbers are incredible. I get that it was a small sample size and he may have been up against weaker competition, but even so, I think it's hard to say that he's any sort of turnover machine by those stats...

Mantha will be fine. I don't think my expectations have tapered near as much as some and I still expect him to be a very good top 6 winger that will pot 25+ goals a season.

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You'd happily put that line out for a D-zone start at an away game, knowing the home team have last change?

We have Frans Nielsen now. He can and does and will play brutal minutes.

We also have Darren Helm. And Dylan Larkin. And Andreas Athanasiou. And Riley Sheahan. And Justin Abdelkader. And Henrik Zetterberg.

And yet, we totally need a "gritty, defensive" fourth line of grinders. It adds so much to our arsenal!

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Your answer to getting rid of black holes of possession on the roster is to play Pulkkinen? Really? When the puck touches his stick specifically, the other team is the next to have it.

Pulkkinen's possession numbers are sparkling. Know why? He creates offense. Because that's what he is -- a point-producer. You can isolate a few examples where he flat-out turned the puck over. That's fine. But you have to realize that Miller and Glendening never have the freaking puck. You also have to realize that the best players in the league tend to turn the puck over a lot. (Few turn it over more than Subban, Doughty, Karlsson.) Does this make them terrible possession players? No. What it's reflecting is the fact that they have the puck a lot more than 97% of their peers do and they're always looking to move the puck, make a play, generate offense -- create.

All Drew Miller and Luke Glendening and Steve Ott do is react, endure, defend. They chase the puck. Contrary to popular belief, they're not helping our cause. Now that we have Frans Nielsen, who's one of the game's best two-way centermen, we really, really, really need to get past this "you need a fourth line that's real good defensively" bulls***.

The Penguins! They slaughtered all comers, and they did it the way it's supposed to be done -- by simply and utterly overwhelming them. Not by waiting them out. Not by enduring. Not by defending. The Penguins took the fight to everyone, and they were the last ones standing. The Penguins are one Cup-winner that the Wings really could learn a thing or two (or twelve) from. In the year 2016, Mike Sullivan's brand of aggressive possession hockey is The Right Way.

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http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/news/la-kings-news-darryl-sutter-quotes-corsi-for-definition-sidney-crosby/1ty2k6440ww8213spqckr4u09n

"The big thing in today’s game is you have to be able forecheck and backcheck, and you have to have the puck," Sutter said over the weekend (h/t Ryan Lambert). "You can’t give the puck up. We don’t play in our zone, so there’s not much defending."

[ . . . . ]

"The game’s changed. They think there’s defending in today’s game. Nah, it’s how much you have the puck. Teams that play around in their own zone (say) they’re defending but they’re generally getting scored on or taking face-offs and they need a goalie to stand on his head if that’s the way they play,” said Sutter.

http://archive.azcentral.com/sports/coyotes/articles/2012/04/06/20120406phoenix-coyotes-dave-tippett-perfect-fit.html

"We had a player that was supposed to be a great, shut-down defenseman. He was supposedly the be-all, end-all of defensemen. But when you did a 10-game analysis of him, you found out he was defending all the time because he can't move the puck.

"Then we had another guy, who supposedly couldn't defend a lick. Well, he was defending only 20 percent of the time because he's making good plays out of our end. He may not be the strongest defender, but he's only doing it 20 percent of the time. So the equation works out better the other way. I ended up trading the other defenseman."

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Pulkkinen's possession numbers are sparkling. Know why? He creates offense. Because that's what he is -- a point-producer. You can isolate a few examples where he flat-out turned the puck over. That's fine. But you have to realize that Miller and Glendening never have the freaking puck. You also have to realize that the best players in the league tend to turn the puck over a lot. (Few turn it over more than Subban, Doughty, Karlsson.) Does this make them terrible possession players? No. What it's reflecting is the fact that they have the puck a lot more than 97% of their peers do and they're always looking to move the puck, make a play, generate offense -- create.

Except for face-offs, after which Glendening had the puck more often than anyone else on the team - including Datsyuk.

But don't let statistics get in the way of your ranting. :rolleyes:

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We have Frans Nielsen now. He can and does and will play brutal minutes.

We also have Darren Helm. And Dylan Larkin. And Andreas Athanasiou. And Riley Sheahan. And Justin Abdelkader. And Henrik Zetterberg.

And yet, we totally need a "gritty, defensive" fourth line of grinders. It adds so much to our arsenal!

You missed his point. A fourth line of Pulkinnen, Sheahan and Jurco would be gifting the other team a goal or two a game. Pulkinnen is almost entirely useless, Jurco is an okay all around guy. Nothing special. Sheahan is good defensively but not great. All you've done is created a line that can't do anything all that well but can fail spectacularly when the game is on the line.

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Except for face-offs, after which Glendening had the puck more often than anyone else on the team - including Datsyuk.

But don't let statistics get in the way of your ranting. :rolleyes:

Lmao what sport do you watch? Faceoff winners don't keep puck on their stick they dish it to players behind him or next to them and on rare occasions end up getting it themselves through a scramble.

Luke Glendening is one of the worst possession players. When he's on ice the opposing team is shooting on our net more often than we are. But you know, lets be ignorant to facts because the guy can apparently win faceoffs lol.

Yes, lets pay a guy hundred thousands to millions of dollars because he happens to win the faceoffs 1% more often than Datsyuk did. Never mind the fact that when he's out on ice after he wins the faceoff the opposing team easily gets the puck and gets a chance to score on us.

That's the best management I've heard of. You should replace Ken Holland. Wait a minute, Holland already does this. Are you Holland? Nah I'm just pullin yer leg.

Well at least Glendog made it to top 10 list on something even if it's a top 10 worst list. - http://kuklaskorner.com/psh/comments/worst-20-players-by-team-adjusted-corsi2

Edited by kickazz

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Amazing. Lol he's projected to be a depth player. But noooo we put him on the first line when we have a 1 goal lead to protect with 2 minutes left in the third! And then we all blame Howard for letting in the game tying goal (cough cough it's usually not his fault).

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Edited by kickazz

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IMO Pulk and Jurco are useless on the 4th line. They're Also Useless As 13/14 forwards.

Miller - Glendening - Ott is the type of 4th line wE need.

If you can't get either of them in the top 9, then cut your losses and try to get some sort of value for them in trade. Or deal other assets in order to better your D and make room for them in the top 9.

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I think the fact that Pulkinnen has amazing Corsi numbers really shows how flawed these stats can be. It really all comes down to usage. It makes sense in the context of a guy like Crosby and other top players because you're just throwing him out there against anybody and having success. It also tells me maybe Blashill is putting way too much emphasis on matchups and it simply hasn't worked

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I predicting right now, it's going to be Fowler and the cost will be Nyquist or Tatar and a 2nd round pick.

Will still have to move a defenseman to make room, Holland will try to get rid of E and retain some salary, or go the easier route and trade Smith. Calgary wants a left handed defenseman.

Mark it.

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Lmao what sport do you watch? Faceoff winners don't keep puck on their stick they dish it to players behind him or next to them and on rare occasions end up getting it themselves through a scramble.

Luke Glendening is one of the worst possession players. When he's on ice the opposing team is shooting on our net more often than we are. But you know, lets be ignorant to facts because the guy can apparently win faceoffs lol.

They get the puck to their team. That's called possession. If you want to know why Glendening's name gets called so often when we're in close situations and PK settings, that's why. Do with that information what you will, but understand that better hockey minds than either of us find his contribution to the team valuable. I wouldn't presume to know better than Mike Babcock or Blashill. Would you?

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I think the fact that Pulkinnen has amazing Corsi numbers really shows how flawed these stats can be. It really all comes down to usage. It makes sense in the context of a guy like Crosby and other top players because you're just throwing him out there against anybody and having success. It also tells me maybe Blashill is putting way too much emphasis on matchups and it simply hasn't worked

Why are his numbers good? Is it because he's good or is it because we all think he isn't and assume the corsi must be flawed.

Of course usage is important. Maybe that's why Glendenings numbers are so s***ty. It's because he's being misused against top lines when he shouldn't be. It's because there's games where he plays 20 minutes as a 4th liner when he shouldn't be.

Edited by kickazz

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