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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

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I apologize for my constant helm hate every chance I get, but as annoying as that can be, it's just as annoying when also 8n every thread we have to read how helm is great for this team and is the best 3rd line center in the world. He simply is not. I admit, he is also not the worst thing for this team either. I don't like him, some love him. But if I'm to quit, I'd like to also stop seeing the polar opposite.

He's a bottoman 6 player who is overpaid, for too long and will probably be used inappropriately. If he pops up with with a NMC I will go and burn his contract personally and kick Holland in the area where most gm's balls reside.

....continued from DD thread.

So, what's the price for Trouba? Would you part with Mantha? What is WPG looking for?

Edited by LeftWinger

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I've said from the beginning that I think Helm is slightly overpaid. I'm talking $500K - $1M max. My issue isn't when people say he's overpaid, my issue is when people constantly say he "sucks"...

Good on you for giving Lefty the benefit of the doubt that this won't be just like the Franzen hate though. Myself, I don't have near that much confidence in him...

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I apologize for my constant helm hate every chance I get, but as annoying as that can be, it's just as annoying when also 8n every thread we have to read how helm is great for this team and is the best 3rd line center in the world. He simply is not. I admit, he is also not the worst thing for this team either. I don't like him, some love him. But if I'm to quit, I'd like to also stop seeing the polar opposite.

He's a bottoman 6 player who is overpaid, for too long and will probably be used inappropriately. If he pops up with with a NMC I will go and burn his contract personally and kick Holland in the area where most gm's balls reside.

....continued from DD thread.

So, what's the price for Trouba? Would you part with Mantha? What is WPG looking for?

So basically you'll stop posting how much you hate helm in every thread and every post as long as everyone agrees he's overpaid for too long and he's not a very good 3 center? Sounds fair I guess

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I'm just saying as annoying it is to read he sucks, which isn't true, he is in the nhl, it's just as untrue and ridiculous to have to read how great he is, which isn't true.

Oh man, if he got $1M less, this wouldn't even be an issue. Now that is true!

But don't get me wrong, if he ends up being nowhere near his contract worth and does a "cleary" on us and really actually sucks, I will say it. Besides, I need someone to blame our losses on! Here's to Helm having a career year and helping us win! God please, no NMC!

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Helm at $3M, bottom 6, fine. What he got, the way he was attempted to be used last season, waste. Can't do anything about the money now, but if he gets top 6 minutes, I cannot guarantee I won't flip out. But, we'll see what happens. For the better of the team, I hope he has a career year!

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He has like 20 forwards signed at this point. Deal Jurco + change and move on. The defense will be eaten alive if no changes are made.

It's unbelievable how incompetent this summer has shown him to be. Started off well with him swinging Datsyuk's contract. The Miller and Ott signings really shouldn't have happened at all. The Glendening contract is excessive, and I empathize with the argument that Helm's contract is too long and for a bit too much salary. We have the highest paid backup in the league and he's been unable to deal that contract. A ton of money is tied up in Ericsson for several years, and he's a bottom-pairing defenseman at best.

I'm not saying dealing Ericsson and Howard is something that can easily be done, but it's imperative that it gets done. There's just no other way around it.

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I think these coming years, with a new coach, young hyped prospects coming to the team and the core of our past team slowly fading away, Holland is more focused on developing our young players and being patient. Stockpile as much young talent as possible and make decisions on who can lead this team going forward. I think after he struck out with Stamkos he decided to stay the course and develop talent the Red Wings way even though many find it infuriating.

The logjam of forwards and defense is annoying but honestly if these young guys come out and take these vets spots than more power to them. It will be better for them in the long run. The decision to keep going with the streak instead of a tank job is not soley Holland's decision. He has a boss too

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Can make excuses or can accuse Holland. Either way we won't know anything until the time comes. Couple things I'm looking to see how they're going to be handled.

1. Three players this year who will have to clear waivers.

2. The mystery of if AA and to a lesser extent Mantha making the roster.

Time will tell.

Edited by kickazz

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Nyquist

Larkin

Zetterberg

Tatar

AA

Abdelkader

Mantha

Sheahan

Vanek

Jurco

Glendening

Miller Pulkkinen Aubrey Bertuzzi Frk Callahan and whoever else can fight for the last 3 spots. They're not going to win the Cup with what they have now, might as well let the kids play.

Edited by DickieDunn

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I'm just saying... If AA and Mantha can't outplay Vanek then they need more time in the minors. No reason to rush them if the team is doing okay with the vets anyways

That's the way the team is set up right now unless theirs a trade which I doubt. Their are a lot of back up plans. Best case scenario the veterans aren't getting the job done and the kids come up and blow everyone away. Worst case the veterans play well and the team is successful. AA and Mantha should be two of the very best players in the AHL and theirs still a lot to learn in the minors

AA I see having an advantage to make the team over Mantha because of his crazy speed. Even if he's not scoring and making plays he makes the team better. Mantha I'm not so sure about

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You're acting as though it's simple. It's not that easy. The Red Wings aren't the type of franchise to bury their veterans in favor of kids even if the kids play well. The only time a kid got into the line up straight from training camp was when there was an empty slot available. That was Larkin. Larkin didn't take away a spot from a veteran, he just filled an empty one.

Besides, you don't sign Vanek to bench him. That's absolutely terrible managing and wouldn't happen. Vanek isn't Commodore. Grand Rapids players have a bigger uphill battle than most minor league affiliated teams in the NHL do.

It's obvious that a trade has to happen, Holland himself has admitted it. The problem is it's hard. And the other problem will be the log jam, which they'll have to deal with one way or another. I'm actually looking forward to seeing how Kenny handles the situation. Somehow he always pulls it off or someone gets injured

Edited by kickazz

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Nyquist

Larkin

Zetterberg

Tatar

AA

Abdelkader

Mantha

Sheahan

Vanek

Jurco

Glendening

Miller Pulkkinen Aubrey Bertuzzi Frk Callahan and whoever else can fight for the last 3 spots. They're not going to win the Cup with what they have now, might as well let the kids play.

Okay, so you just didn't like the Helm or Neilson signings. I'm wary of the Nielson deal, but I don't know much about him so I'm waiting to see. I think Nielson is a definitely a possibility to a block against young players because I think AA could be a 2nd line center in a couple years. Helm I think will just be push down the lineup if Mantha or Jurco come in and grab a spot.

I just disagree with the narrative I've seen around that Helm, Glendening are blocking the kids. They're 29 and 27 - I think they're good pieces and they can be part of a contending team in a few years. I think Miller, Ott, Vanek, are signings that won't be part of that future and take roster spots away from Jurco, Pulkkinen Mantha(should start in GR)

I do think E is a longterm contract that has blocked some worthy young players.

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If AA and Mantha can't outplay Vanek then they need more time in the minors.

headdesk.gif

A catch-22 is a paradoxical situation from which an individual cannot escape because of contradictory rules. An example would be: To apply for a job, you need to have a few years of experience. But in order to gain experience, you need to get a job first.

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Glendening and Helm will be in their mid to late 30s and probably ineffective by the time this team is likely to be a contender again best case scenario. I put Vanek on that roster because it was a one year deal, which I like a hell of a lot better than 6 years for a 32 year old second line center or overpaying and over extending a checking line player. Either way, in what world do you think that Holland would demote any of them regardless if how well rookies play in camp? We're going to hear the same tired lines about numbers and depth and over ripe.

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