Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Just a random thoughts

I find it both humorus and troubling that KFQ is still unsigned. Troubling because you know Holland is kicking the tires behind closed doors on him...he is. You know it to be true.

Also interesting that Russell is yet to be signed. Out pricing himself? If we could drop E, I'd give him E's money.

Would it be worth trying to make a trade for Ristolainen, Rider or Lindholm instead of Trouba?

Edited August 3, 2016 by LeftWinger

[NerveDamage 4,176]

Just a random thought, I find it both humorus and troubling that KFQ is still unsigned. Troubling because you know Holland is kicking the tires behind closed doors on him...he is. You know it to be true.

but he can't straight up sign him with our cap the way it is, right?

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

Boy, Columbus got a hell of a deal on Gagner. Would someone like to put up some of those analytics comparing him and Helm...the eye test on hockey-reference.com tells me they have very similar production, But one of them makes $3.2M more than the other...and is 3 years older.

Haha I was waiting for this post.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

but he can't straight up sign him with our cap the way it is, right?

I'm sure he'd figure out some one to send to waivers to make room. Pulkinnen will be on LTIR and he'd probably just waive Jurco.

Haha I was waiting for this post.

Hey, can't do anything about it now, but I'd still like to see the side by side comparison in order to know that we got a good deal. First Jarnkrok, now Gagner, Helm's salary, even if it was only $3M has to be justified by corsi and analytics and advanced something or other...right?

[NerveDamage 4,176]

I'm sure he'd figure out some one to send to waivers to make room. Pulkinnen will be on LTIR and he'd probably just waive Jurco.

Hey, can't do anything about it now, but I'd still like to see the side by side comparison in order to know that we got a good deal. First Jarnkrok, now Gagner, Helm's salary, even if it was only $3M has to be justified by corsi and analytics and advanced something or other...right?

how much is KFQ expecting to make?

[LeftWinger 4,961]

how much is KFQ expecting to make?

Probably too much, maybe the reason he's not signed. Of course only Holland would give him way too much more than he's worth.

[DatsyukianDekes 2,428]

I'm sure he'd figure out some one to send to waivers to make room. Pulkinnen will be on LTIR and he'd probably just waive Jurco.

Hey, can't do anything about it now, but I'd still like to see the side by side comparison in order to know that we got a good deal. First Jarnkrok, now Gagner, Helm's salary, even if it was only $3M has to be justified by corsi and analytics and advanced something or other...right?

I agree with you. I would take Gagner over Helm.

[kickazz 5,459]

Hey, can't do anything about it now, but I'd still like to see the side by side comparison in order to know that we got a good deal. First Jarnkrok, now Gagner, Helm's salary, even if it was only $3M has to be justified by corsi and analytics and advanced something or other...right?

[mackel 681]

Am I the only one who sees a pretty graph but has no clue how to read it?

[BinMucker94 302]

Tatar - Neilsen - Vanek

Zetterberg - Larkin - Abdelkader

Nyquist - AA - Mantha

Sheahan - Helm - Jurco

Would love to see this for the forwards. Not necessarily the combos but icing the most talented players instead of 4th line plugs. I don't think this would ever happen tho.

[Dominator2005 558]

Yep. Who else do we have? I expect he'll be better in his second year than his first. But if it makes you feel better you could switch the top two lines considering it doesn't make a difference which order I list them in but only how much ice time they get. It's worth noting that Datsyuk was on our "2nd line" last year and still had top line minutes. You're getting WAY too caught up with designations.

Z-Neilsen-Vanek

Tatar-Larkin-Abby

Nyquist-AA-Mantha/Sheahan

Helm-Glendening-Mantha/Sheahan

Better?

Expecting more like:

Larkin-Zetterberg-Abdelkader

Tatar-Nielsen-Helm

Nyquist-She-Vanek

Miller-LG-Ott

No way that Helm will be playing on the 4th line at his salary and he was asking to play bigger role before re-signing.

AA and Mantha can be sent down without roster implications, it sucks to send then down but there is a logjam at F position which was created by KH by re-signing Helm and adding Vanek (best thing is one year contract).

In my ideal world, our lineup would be:

Tatar-Larkin-Abby

Mantha-Nielsen-AA

Z-She-Nyquist

Miller-LG-Bert

[LeftWinger 4,961]

If Blashill puts Helm on the 2nd and Vanek on the 3rd, he needs to be fired.

No way is Helm top 6 material...in no league.

[NerveDamage 4,176]

If Blashill puts Helm on the 2nd and Vanek on the 3rd, he needs to be fired.

No way is Helm top 6 material...in no league.

What I'm not sure about anymore is, Is he better as a wing or center? his natural position was center and Babs played him as a wing right?

*edited becuse I misread your post, sorry

Edited August 3, 2016 by NerveDamage

[Dabura 12,207]

Neither was Downey, nor McCarty nor Drake. We need Otter to play the same role as they did. Protect, hit, disrupt score the occasional goal. I always think back to Downey kicking Laperriere's ass after he clocked Lidstrom. If Z and Larkin et.al are given that type of protection, they may not drop off in production as much, if at all.

All I'm saying is, he's every bit McCarty was in 08 and drake. If he is used the same way, he is going to surprise a lot of fans. I still wish we had room for Mantha, but maybe Holland is thinking the same thing about his Downey signing. I hope that is the reason behind his signing and I hope he is used in the same way, 50-60 games at least is what I'm hoping.

We don't need Steve Ott. For the love of God. I actually like the guy, but, dude, c'mon.

We won the Cup in '08 because we were lights-out amazing. We had high-level skill for days. We had insane depth. We were a crazy-dominant possession team. None of these things apply to today's team, and that's The Problem.

We. do. not. need. a. Steve. Ott.

We. do. not. need. a. Dallas. Drake.

We. do. not. need. an. Aaron. Downey.

We. do. not. need. a. 2008. Darren McCarty.

If Mantha starts the season on the farm "because he's not a fourth-liner and Steve Ott is," I'm done. I will embrace full-on apathy.

[Dabura 12,207]

come on LW,he might not be top 4 but he's definitely a solid 3rd liner. What I'm not sure about anymore is, Is he better as a wing or center? his natural position was center and Babs played him as a wing right?

I think he's better suited for the wing. Playing wing is a lot of North-South skating, forechecking, backchecking, not much intelligence or artistry involved. His speed and tenacity make him a reasonably effective forechecker and backchecker. When he's on his game, he's a wrecking ball F1, chasing down pucks in the o-zone and crunching defensemen against the backboards. When he's really on his game, he can hold the puck in the o-zone for extended periods of time and make some positive stuff happen. Granted, that rarely happens (and it was, in fact, what led to that backbreaking Tyler Johnson goal in that game that shall not be named), because he's not really a playmaker. But sometimes he draws a penalty! *shrug*

Also, HE CAN KILL PENALTIES AND BLOCK SHOTS AND PLAY WITHOUT THE PUCK. And, as we all know, that's all that really matters. So there's that.

To be clear, I like Helm. What I don't like his deployment (top-six, power play). Oh, and his contract. If you're paying him $4M, you don't understand what kind of player Darren Helm is and what role he should be playing. He should be a cheap bottom-sixer who gives you some quality bang for your buck, like an overachieving kid on his ELC.

Edited August 3, 2016 by Dabura

[Dominator2005 558]

If Blashill puts Helm on the 2nd and Vanek on the 3rd, he needs to be fired.

No way is Helm top 6 material...in no league.

Unfortunately Helm will be playing top 6 (Blash is copying Babs is very each aspect less Babs skills).

[Jacksoni 418]

What I'm not sure about anymore is, Is he better as a wing or center? his natural position was center and Babs played him as a wing right?

*edited becuse I misread your post, sorry

I would say wing, where he can forecheck aggressively and use his speed to cause problems. Preferably on the third line and on the penalty kill in my opinion.

[Dominator2005 558]

We don't need Steve Ott. For the love of God. I actually like the guy, but, dude, c'mon.

We won the Cup in '08 because we were lights-out amazing. We had high-level skill for days. We had insane depth. We were a crazy-dominant possession team. None of these things apply to today's team, and that's The Problem.

We. do. not. need. a. Steve. Ott.

We. do. not. need. a. Dallas. Drake.

We. do. not. need. an. Aaron. Downey.

We. do. not. need. a. 2008. Darren McCarty.

If Mantha starts the season on the farm "because he's not a fourth-liner and Steve Ott is," I'm done. I will embrace full-on apathy.

Ott is a 4th liner and his presence/absence has nothing to do with Mantha. Mantha is top 6 forward and he needs to play. Having Vanek and Helm actually takes his spot. Only way to have him in the lineup is trading away (preferebaly) Nyquist + (XO, Pulks and picks) for some true defensive help not named Fowler.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Hey, can't do anything about it now, but I'd still like to see the side by side comparison in order to know that we got a good deal. First Jarnkrok, now Gagner, Helm's salary, even if it was only $3M has to be justified by corsi and analytics and advanced something or other...right?

Don't know how to read it, but the blocks look very similar. Helm should be making no more than $700K. Good job kenny.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

We don't need Steve Ott. For the love of God. I actually like the guy, but, dude, c'mon.

We won the Cup in '08 because we were lights-out amazing. We had high-level skill for days. We had insane depth. We were a crazy-dominant possession team. None of these things apply to today's team, and that's The Problem.

We. do. not. need. a. Steve. Ott.

We. do. not. need. a. Dallas. Drake.

We. do. not. need. an. Aaron. Downey.

We. do. not. need. a. 2008. Darren McCarty.

If Mantha starts the season on the farm "because he's not a fourth-liner and Steve Ott is," I'm done. I will embrace full-on apathy.

Well, Mantha and AA should both be here, but they will both be in GR. Why? Miller, Helm and Holland's refusal to trade roster players for a D upgrade. It doesn't matter that Vanek was signed. You don't sign miller, you don't sign helm, you trade nyquist and Pulk for a D.

Tatar - Nielson - Vanek

Z - Larkin - Abdelkader

Jurco - AA - Mantha

Sheahan - Glendening - Ott

Frk

You change the toughness and scoring of your team, and you still have tins of cap space for trade deadline.

[kickazz 5,459]

Don't know how to read it, but the blocks look very similar. Helm should be making no more than $700K. Good job kenny.

I thought you were done talking about Helm's contract? Now you're just going to get the pro-Helm crew to talk about how great he is.

Back to square one.

But yes. Helm is overpaid. I think everyone on this board has acknowledged that.

Edited August 3, 2016 by kickazz

[NerveDamage 4,176]

I thought you were done talking about Helm's contract? Now you're just going to get the pro-Helm crew to talk about how great he is.

Back to square one.

But yes. Helm is overpaid. I think everyone on this board has acknowledged that.

wait a minute there buddy... I'm not overpaid

Edited August 3, 2016 by NerveDamage

[kickazz 5,459]

It's too bad because we all know I'm Darren Helm.

Hence I am the real one overpaid.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Neither was Downey, nor McCarty nor Drake. We need Otter to play the same role as they did. Protect, hit, disrupt score the occasional goal. I always think back to Downey kicking Laperriere's ass after he clocked Lidstrom. If Z and Larkin et.al are given that type of protection, they may not drop off in production as much, if at all.

All I'm saying is, he's every bit McCarty was in 08 and drake. If he is used the same way, he is going to surprise a lot of fans. I still wish we had room for Mantha, but maybe Holland is thinking the same thing about his Downey signing. I hope that is the reason behind his signing and I hope he is used in the same way, 50-60 games at least is what I'm hoping.

Ott isn't that guy any more. If you're expecting that, you're going good to be disappointed. He doesn't fight, doesn't hit as much, and doesn't score any more. I don't even think he'll be on the roster by mid season of he makes it out of camp barring other injuries.

[Echolalia 2,961]

You're all crazy. I'm overpaid.