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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

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All they care about is "The Streak" and it's hampering us. Stop caring about "The Streak" and play for yourselves. It's like they try as hard as they can to just get into the playoffs and once they keep "the streak" intact they stop caring. I honestly wish we'd just miss the playoffs so we stop hearing about meaningless streaks and stats.

The longest streak is pro sports was cool when we knew the Wings could do some damage in the playoffs. Now they're just flat in the playoffs because they've reached their goal.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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All they care about is "The Streak" and it's hampering us. Stop caring about "The Streak" and play for yourselves. It's like they try as hard as they can to just get into the playoffs and once they keep "the streak" intact they stop caring. I honestly wish we'd just miss the playoffs so we stop hearing about meaningless streaks and stats.

The longest streak is pro sports was cool when we knew the Wings could do some damage in the playoffs. Now they're just flat in the playoffs because they've reached their goal.

Logically speaking, why would they "stop caring" once they get in the playoffs? Do you really believe that after battling for 82 games, the players/coaches/management etc. say "meh, lets just get these games over with".

The streak does matter as a whole regardless of whether certain fans like it or not. It matters in terms of revenue, in matters in terms of history, and some fans legit care about it and take pride in it.

Do Holland and co. sometimes make decisions that probably dont help long term due to the streak.....ya probably. But the streak is not the reason why we are not contenders. We are not contenders because of the cyclical nature of hockey. No team came be a contender for 20 plus seasons in a row.

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I'm sure the players take pride in the streak as well.... If the wings were to tank LGW would be irate demanding they fire Blashill/Holland

Fans in general want their cake and to eat it too or... They'll just find something new to complain about

You think if we were a lottery team but Mantha, AA, Bertuzzi and everyone was playing it would be all la di da... It would look really ugly with these hyped prospects looking very bad. Maybe if we had a team like that Larkin wouldn't have emerged and pretty much changed the outlook of the future

We have a lot of young guys just blossoming into their NHL careers or entering their prime. I think Holland has had a good outlook on the future while ensuring they're a competitive playoff team. It's not like he's trading all our youth for vets and going all in on a bad team. The only struggle here is the kids have a lot of competition to make the team but they are definitely part of the future

Edited by joesuffP

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Logically speaking, why would they "stop caring" once they get in the playoffs? Do you really believe that after battling for 82 games, the players/coaches/management etc. say "meh, lets just get these games over with".

The streak does matter as a whole regardless of whether certain fans like it or not. It matters in terms of revenue, in matters in terms of history, and some fans legit care about it and take pride in it.

Honestly, I'd say most fans take pride in the streak. I'm not 100% sure about this but the streak is something to be proud of.

Do Holland and co. sometimes make decisions that probably dont help long term due to the streak.....ya probably. But the streak is not the reason why we are not contenders. We are not contenders because of the cyclical nature of hockey. No team came be a contender for 20 plus seasons in a row.

Well put. The Red Wings are a rare breed of dominance and we became spoiled unfortunately.

Edited by kickazz

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Honestly, I'd say most fans take pride in the streak. I'm not 100% sure about this but the streak is something to be proud of.

Well put. The Red Wings are a rare breed of dominance and we became spoiled unfortunately.

I'm definitely proud of it. I'd love to see us break the record. Regardless of that though, being one of the only (or maybe the only?) team to make the post season each year since the cap era started is pretty impressive.

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Right. A few decades from now, I don't think anyone's going to talk about how we got eliminated in the first round, if the record is broken they will talk about how we broke the record AND won 4 Stanley cups during the streak. It's all about how history is written, and nobody is going to write "the red wings were eliminated first round 5 years in a row just to preserve a streak, FIRE HOLLAND"

I presume the hockey books/ web pages will have something along the lines of "An impressive 30 years in a row playoff streak broken by the Red Wings in 2020. During their run they managed to win 4 stanley cups and sported legends such as Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Hasek etc etc etc"

Streak is nothing to look down upon at all.

That's not to say Holland hasn't made questionable moves this summer but of course that's been discussed ad nauseam.

Edited by kickazz

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Right. A few decades from now, I don't think anyone's going to talk about how we got eliminated in the first round, if the record is broken they will talk about how we broke the record AND won 4 Stanley cups during the streak. It's all about how history is written, and nobody is going to write "the red wings were eliminated first round 5 years in a row just to preserve a streak, FIRE HOLLAND"

I presume the hockey books/ web pages will have something along the lines of "An impressive 30 years in a row playoff streak broken by the Red Wings in 2020. During their run they managed to win 4 stanley cups and sported legends such as Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Hasek etc etc etc"

Streak is nothing to look down upon at all.

That's not to say Holland hasn't made questionable moves this summer but of course that's been discussed ad nauseam.

Agree with everything except the four Stanley cups ;)

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What good is it to make the playoffs if they have no real chance at winning the Cup, other than a few million in playoff revenue for the owners?

I want another Cup ASAP. Signing Nielsen, Vanek, Helm, Miller, etc. And holding onto prospects instead of moving them for good players doesn't accomplish that goal now or in the near future.

Edited by DickieDunn

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Imagine how much better it will feel to win a cup without tanking

Wings win a cup and they're right back to being the model franchise, doing things the right way.

It's not like the team will never be good again. The future core is emerging right in front of us. The Wings are a few young guys having breakthrough seasons away from being a very good team

All the doom and gloom around here is ridiculous. We're a doomed franchise until the end of time because the streak

I think years ago when Dats and Z were good Holland sacrificed the future for trying to win with a somewhat mediocre team and I think that's why we are left with guys like Nyquist, Tatar and aging vets to lead the team. Now because of our struggles we're seeing high end prospects just starting to make the jump into the NHL. We haven't had blue chip guys like this in a very long time

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Agree with everything except the four Stanley cups ;)

I wanted to say more but I didn't because it would invite people saying stuff like "Hah you expect us to win more stanley cups??!!! we suck!!" and then I'd have to go and start arguing back and all that jazz.

But yeah. Let's make it 8 stanley cups in 30 years. Long live the streak. Long live the franchise. Long live Stannis Baratheon. I mean.. long live the Winged Wheel.

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What good is it to make the playoffs if they have no real chance at winning the Cup, other than a few million in playoff revenue for the owners?

I want another Cup ASAP. Signing Nielsen, Vanek, Helm, Miller, etc. And holding onto prospects instead of moving them for good players doesn't accomplish that goal now or in the near future.

Well I agree with your second statement to a certain extent and I've had my fair share of criticism of the off season moves. But I don't think the streak is an issue nor do I think it's that black and white. It would be ideal for management to continue the streak and at the same time to be able to make some major moves to improve things like the defense or whatever else we're lacking or are overstocked in (cough cough Howard, Ericsson).

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Imagine how much better it will feel to win a cup without tanking

Wings win a cup and they're right back to being the model franchise, doing things the right way.

It's not like the team will never be good again. The future core is emerging right in front of us. The Wings are a few young guys having breakthrough seasons away from being a very good team

All the doom and gloom around here is ridiculous. We're a doomed franchise until the end of time because the streak

I think years ago when Dats and Z were good Holland sacrificed the future for trying to win with a somewhat mediocre team and I think that's why we are left with guys like Nyquist, Tatar and aging vets to lead the team. Now because of our struggles we're seeing high end prospects just starting to make the jump into the NHL. We haven't had blue chip guys like this in a very long time

Right. A few decades from now, I don't think anyone's going to talk about how we got eliminated in the first round, if the record is broken they will talk about how we broke the record AND won 4 Stanley cups during the streak. It's all about how history is written, and nobody is going to write "the red wings were eliminated first round 5 years in a row just to preserve a streak, FIRE HOLLAND"

I presume the hockey books/ web pages will have something along the lines of "An impressive 30 years in a row playoff streak broken by the Red Wings in 2020. During their run they managed to win 4 stanley cups and sported legends such as Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Hasek etc etc etc"

Streak is nothing to look down upon at all.

That's not to say Holland hasn't made questionable moves this summer but of course that's been discussed ad nauseam.

100% agree. Not to mention, if Holland can with another Stanley Cup with this crop of kids coming up, in 20 years from now people will look at Holland as legendary GM. That would be 3 generations of cup winning teams, however many years the streak ends up being, AND over a roughly 30 year period, their "low point" would be a few first round exits.

Edited by kliq

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I'm a huge Holland critic. But remember before we won in 97? We had a core of young players growing together, learning together. Remember when Yzerman was traded in 94 until Mrs. I put the cabash on it? Remember when we signed aging vets like Bob rouse, Mike Ramsey, acquired a past his prime Mike Vernon, remember trading for a 35 year old igor larionov and a 36 year old fetisov? Remember claiming a 30 year Doug brown off the waiver wire? 35 year old Larry Murphy who seemed to be done after failing miserably in Toronto. How about 32 year old Joe kocur out of the beer league?

You have to grow a core, you have to influx that with vets. Not a big fan of Helm, but he's obviously part of our core...

I wish Holland would make a deal for a D man, but I think he is doing it very similar to the early 90's.

Edited by LeftWinger

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I'm a huge Holland critic. But remember before we won in 97? We had a core of young players growing together, learning together. Remember when Yzerman was traded in 94 until Mrs. I put the cabash on it? Remember when we signed aging vets like Bob rouse, Mike Ramsey, acquired a past his prime Mike Vernon, remember trading for a 35 year old igor larionov and a 36 year old fetisov? Remember claiming a 30 year Doug brown off the waiver wire? 35 year old Larry Murphy who seemed to be done after failing miserably in Toronto. H I was about 32 year old Joe kocur out of the beer league?

You have to grow a core, you have to influx that with vets. Not a big fan of Helm, but he's obviously part of our core...

I wish Holland would make a deal for a D man, but I think he is doing it very similar to the early 90's.

Well said. I am not going to sit here and say that every move Holland makes is perfect as its not. But with that being said, I believe because of Chicago and Pittsburgh, some fans think that the only way to build a winner is to completely clear house. But what people forget, is that for every Chicago or Pittsburgh out there, there is is an Atlanta/Winnipeg, Arizona, Calgary, Columbus etc. to match.

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What others failing to remember also, before the streak started, we only missed the playoffs twice after 83. We rebuilt on the fly then and we can do it again.

Wasn't the same back then. In the 8 seasons from 83 through the first year of our current streak 91, 5 of the 6 times we made the playoffs we had a .500 or lower record. We also picked 11th or higher in the draft for 7 of those years, and 17th in the other year.

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I don't think any of our 11th or higher picks panned out aside from Yzerman. Primeau was traded to bring in Shanahan. But ultimately the 97 team only had 2 of our own high first round picks one which was Yzerman almost 15 years after he was drafted, the other was Lapointe who wasn't very good. It all came down to trades, re-build on the fly, and getting lucky with the Russian 5 in the mid to later rounds of the draft. And getting lucky with Lidstrom in the 3rd round of the draft.

Edited by kickazz

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Not like it's impossible to retool into a championship team while being competitive and making the playoffs. Wings just drafted and developed two blue chip guys in Larkin and Mrazek already with other guys knocking on the door. The future looks good for the wings. A couple vet signings and suddenly this team has no direction or future

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Let's put it this way. What's your expectations for Helm and Vanek this year? If AA and Mantha played the entire season in Detroit, what would your expectations for them be? If the answers are similar, they should have gone with the kids. Your team this year would be about the same, and it would benefit them more ling term. Ditto for Bertuzzi vs. Miller or Ott.

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I agree some of the signings made this year were unnecessary but Miller and Vanek are short term. I don't know if Helm and Glendening were Hollands doing or if Blashill insisted on it. Something tells me that Blashill is adamant on relying on Glendening and Helm and wanted them to be here for the long run.

Put it this way, if AA and Mantha do end up making the line up long term this year, I will be content. The best way for them to do that will be either training camp or injuries and we all know injuries are bound to happen.

Edited by kickazz

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Vanek I havent watched play very much I don't have any expectations of him at this point. Helm is a very versatile player although I think he's overpaid. Don't think anybody in the system can do what he does night in night out tbh. He's a useful guy we can slot all over the lineup in any role. I expect the team to function better as whole with Blashill having more experience and individual player stats from last year don't reflect the type of player they really are. Helm will produce while being a high energy guy that's solid defensively

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