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Hockeytown0001

Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

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As it goes for defensive help, instead of going for Fowler (another 4th def) why not go after Dumba?

Two months ago people were saying "Watch! Holland's going to sign Quincey and Hudler as fre agents!". Instead they signed, Nielsen and Vanek.

Now it's "Holland will invite Quincey and Hudler to training camp!"

And then when they aren't invited what's the next attempt? Pretending like Hudler and Quincey are on the roster even though they aren't? "Look they're on the roster, I'm telling you Holland signed them, they just haven't made an appearance yet, just wait"

It's not like going after Hudler and Quincey is not something he has already done... it is a typical KH move so yes, we can expect everything from KH.

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Let me just refresh that setup:

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/81292-official-2016-detroit-red-wings-offseason-thread/?view=findpost&p=2684409


I'm most intrigued by the Anaheim scenario. Very interesting the rule on the NMC. I guess once you waive it, the acquiring team can choose not to honor it after its waived. Very, very interesting.

Not keen on trading Saarijarvi so soon in the Winnipeg scenario. I'm sure someone else could be included in that...also I'm 99% sure Holland will not trade Abdelkader.

I'm scared of the Shattenkirk scenario, only because there's no way to guarantee he'd be here for more than this season.

Of the three, I'd welcome the Anaheim trade first. Fowler and bieska would help this D. The only thing is, it would knock Smith back to #7 and require us to waive all three kids. Not unless we could swing both the Anaheim AND Winnipeg deals! Just replace Saarijarvi with XO or Sproul and maybe Abdelkader with Sheahan and Pulkkinen (unless they want Helm...lol j/k)

So, I go with the Anaheim scenario:

to ANAHEIM: Nyquist, Ericsson, Holmstrom, 3rd Round pick
To DETROIT: Fowler, Bieska(not to honor NMC to leave exposed to draft)

Then the Winnipeg trade:

to Winnipeg : Smith, Pulkkinen, Sheahan, XO

to Detroit : Trouba (re-sign 8 yrs, $4M aav)

My roster:

Tatar- Nielsen- Vanek
Zetterberg- Larkin- Abdelkader
Jurco - AA- Helm
Miller - Glendening- Ott
Frk

DD - Trouba
Fowler- Green
Kronwall- Marchenko
Bieska

Even with all this, I still have $2.2M in cap space. Before Howard is dealt with!

Get it done Kenny!

Works for ALL 3 teams...

Edited by LeftWinger

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I dont see how the Winnipeg trades works for Winnipeg. They are trading us a potential top pairing d-man for an upcoming UFA (Smith), a good 4th liner (Sheahan), a d-man that has had trouble cracking our top 6 (XO), and a guy who was a healthy scratch for a large percentage on last year and has struggled to produce at the NHL level (Pulk).

Dont take this as me bashing those 4 guys, I am a fan of all of them. But, that doesnt land you a guy like Trouba unless you are adding some high picks.

No way that package brings Trouba and no way Trouba signs 8/4M$.

Do you really think that KH has what it takes to trade 7 players???

Do you really think that Fowler is that much of upgrade over Smith?

Agreed that the contract would never happen

Yes I think KH has what it takes to make a good trade, but more often then not, trades purposed by fans have zero chance of happening.

Yes, Fowler is 24 and is still getting better. Smith is 28 and most likely is not getting much better.

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I dont see how the Winnipeg trades works for Winnipeg. They are trading us a potential top pairing d-man for an upcoming UFA (Smith), a good 4th liner (Sheahan), a d-man that has had trouble cracking our top 6 (XO), and a guy who was a healthy scratch for a large percentage on last year and has struggled to produce at the NHL level (Pulk).

Dont take this as me bashing those 4 guys, I am a fan of all of them. But, that doesnt land you a guy like Trouba unless you are adding some high picks.

Agreed that the contract would never happen

Yes I think KH has what it takes to make a good trade, but more often then not, trades purposed by fans have zero chance of happening.

Yes, Fowler is 24 and is still getting better. Smith is 28 and most likely is not getting much better.

...and Adam Larsson doesn't land you a player like Taylor Hall...oh wait.

Trades are made on needs, it is known that Winnipeg is looking for help up front in different forms PLUS they are in a sticky wicket come expansion draft where they are forced to protect Byfiglien and Enstrom due to their NMC's which only leaves them able to protect ONE more D. Do they lock up Trouba and protect him and expose Myers? Do they protect Myers and expose Trouba, who they just signed to a long term deal? They would get Pulkkinen and Sheahan up front to help out in different ways. They get Smith (who they also wouldn't have to protect being a pending UFA, then they could just re-sign him come July 1) and they would a very good prospect in XO who could help round out their bottom 3 D. Plus they save money against the cap.

Ok, 8/$4M may not be enough, but for Trouba, I could see really no more than $5M and no less than 4-5 years. Still a win-win for both teams...

The Anaheim deal should already be done. It's a no brainer...

Just imagine your team with DD, Trouba, Fowler and Marchenko here for the rest of their careers...heck if you have to trade Marchenko in a deal, at this point he is replaceable realistically. Maybe Winnipeg would want him instead of Smith? or XO? I think if you have the assets to acquire BOTH Fowler and Trouba, you do it. Local kids, proud to play here, will most likely retire here, and that could mean 15+ years of them playing together and learning together.

We would not miss Nyquist, Ericsson, Holmstrom or the pick(s.) The only one I'd hate to give up is Sheahan, but if Trouba is coming back the other way, it has to be done.

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...and Adam Larsson doesn't land you a player like Taylor Hall...oh wait.

Trades are made on needs, it is known that Winnipeg is looking for help up front in different forms PLUS they are in a sticky wicket come expansion draft where they are forced to protect Byfiglien and Enstrom due to their NMC's which only leaves them able to protect ONE more D. Do they lock up Trouba and protect him and expose Myers? Do they protect Myers and expose Trouba, who they just signed to a long term deal? They would get Pulkkinen and Sheahan up front to help out in different ways. They get Smith (who they also wouldn't have to protect being a pending UFA, then they could just re-sign him come July 1) and they would a very good prospect in XO who could help round out their bottom 3 D. Plus they save money against the cap.

Ok, 8/$4M may not be enough, but for Trouba, I could see really no more than $5M and no less than 4-5 years. Still a win-win for both teams...

The Anaheim deal should already be done. It's a no brainer...

Just imagine your team with DD, Trouba, Fowler and Marchenko here for the rest of their careers...heck if you have to trade Marchenko in a deal, at this point he is replaceable realistically. Maybe Winnipeg would want him instead of Smith? or XO? I think if you have the assets to acquire BOTH Fowler and Trouba, you do it. Local kids, proud to play here, will most likely retire here, and that could mean 15+ years of them playing together and learning together.

We would not miss Nyquist, Ericsson, Holmstrom or the pick(s.) The only one I'd hate to give up is Sheahan, but if Trouba is coming back the other way, it has to be done.

Trades are made based on need, but I don't think from Winnipeg's perspective this is the best possible deal out there for Trouba. I'm not sure why you would bring up the Edm/NJ example, that trade just shows you how much is asked for in return for what's believed to be a top future d-man. I would love to make this trade, but its not going to happen as this is NHL'17 the video game.

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...ah there the old "NHL Game" reference! Gotta love it!

That is not an NHL 17 trade scenario, the value is well worth the deal, but you are right, there is probably another team out there to overpay that which would intrigue Winnipeg more.

In reference to the NJ deal, I am not evauluating Trouba's potential or value, the article valued him at:

Justin Abdelkader, Brendan Smith, Vili Saarijarvi and a 2017 second-round draft pick for Jacob Trouba and a 2018 third-round pick. I have no probelm using the picks as well, I just replaced Abby and Villi with Sheahan and Pulk. Given the same minutes as Abby, Sheahan can score 20 goals and even though he didn't perform in a 4th line role, given 2nd line minutes in Winnipeg, Pulk could be very valuable to them. Sure they Have Laine who will probably get automatic top 6 minutes, but adding Sheahan would give them more size and the Pulk-Canon could be unleashed there. They sure as hell aren't going to unleash it here... (once healthy that is.)

I know most trade suggestions, even by people in the know, don't happen, but Sheahan, Pulk, Smith, picks are more than enough to get you Trouba. But like you said, there are probably even BETTER offers out there.

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Ya....ok. I like how when something doesn't line up with someone's agenda, it's hot garbage. Both proposals are well worth each other and would make sense for all teams. But hey, let's hang on to Nyquist and Pulkkinen, etc...maybe they'll get a dose of 2008 Franzen this year...

Anyhow, leafs sign enroth to be backup....and we have jimmy.

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Ya....ok. I like how when something doesn't line up with someone's agenda, it's hot garbage. Both proposals are well worth each other and would make sense for all teams. But hey, let's hang on to Nyquist and Pulkkinen, etc...maybe they'll get a dose of 2008 Franzen this year...

Anyhow, leafs sign enroth to be backup....and we have jimmy.

I have no "agenda" lol, I would love to make the trade you suggested. I just believe there is no chance in hell Winnipeg ever makes that trade. Look at it from the other side....would you want to trade DD for a similar return? Quality > Quantity.

Edited by kliq

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Red Wing players as olympians -

Hurdles - Darren Helm

100 meter sprint - Dylan Larkin and Andreas Athanasiou

Gymnastics - Petr Mrazek

Beach Volleyball - Niklas Kronwall and Jonathan Ericsson

Diving - Gustav Nyquist :lol:

Rowing - Henrik Zetterberg

Weightlifting - Justin Abdelkader

Handball - Brendan Smith :hysterical:

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2016/8/21/12475262/red-wings-as-olympians

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I assume you just don't know that much about Winnipeg. Like the Wings, they are kind of loaded with mid-level forwards: Wheeler, Scheifele, Little, Perreault, Ehlers, Stafford. Obviously Laine will be in the mix. Most seem to expect Kyle Connor to make the team and some think he may be better than Larkin. Just signed Matthias. Dano looked ok for them last year. Burmistrov will probably never amount to much, but he's still only 24 so I doubt they've completely given up on him.

I'd say it's hardly a lock that Sheahan or Pulk would even make their top-9, much less top-6. Plus they (like pretty much everyone) are already going to be struggling with the question of whom to protect. Then you include Smith, and either they resign him and have to protect him, or they risk losing him as an UFA.

The Jets offense wasn't very good, but neither was their defense. Even losing Ladd, the potential impact of Laine and Connor plus continued development of Ehlers (and maybe a little more from Scheifele even) gives reason for some optimism there. On defense, Morrissey is the only good prospect they have. Getting rid of Trouba for anything other than a direct replacement doesn't make much sense. Maybe for a real upgrade at forward or a top pick + prospect that wouldn't need protection.

Really nothing about that trade makes any sense for the Jets. The only way it would is if they get completely desperate with being unable to resign Trouba, and just go for the highest bid. But you already admit that wouldn't likely be us.

The Anaheim deal is a bit better, if you presume they are still looking for help at forward. I'm not sure they still are, but they do have a lot of good young D. Not so sure Nyquist + Holmstrom would get Fowler (E and Bieksa is more or less a wash), with Nyquist coming off a down year and with a longish-term contract. Also not sure Fowler is even good enough to be worth Nyquist.

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Anybody read the NHL.com "5 Questions" article with Ken Holland? I liked that they're planning to start Zetterberg with Nielsen, but a bit disappointed that he didn't mention AA when talking about prospective centers. I'm going to be really irritated if they develop that kid into a winger.

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I assume you just don't know that much about Winnipeg. Like the Wings, they are kind of loaded with mid-level forwards: Wheeler, Scheifele, Little, Perreault, Ehlers, Stafford. Obviously Laine will be in the mix. Most seem to expect Kyle Connor to make the team and some think he may be better than Larkin. Just signed Matthias. Dano looked ok for them last year. Burmistrov will probably never amount to much, but he's still only 24 so I doubt they've completely given up on him.

I'd say it's hardly a lock that Sheahan or Pulk would even make their top-9, much less top-6. Plus they (like pretty much everyone) are already going to be struggling with the question of whom to protect. Then you include Smith, and either they resign him and have to protect him, or they risk losing him as an UFA.

The Jets offense wasn't very good, but neither was their defense. Even losing Ladd, the potential impact of Laine and Connor plus continued development of Ehlers (and maybe a little more from Scheifele even) gives reason for some optimism there. On defense, Morrissey is the only good prospect they have. Getting rid of Trouba for anything other than a direct replacement doesn't make much sense. Maybe for a real upgrade at forward or a top pick + prospect that wouldn't need protection.

Really nothing about that trade makes any sense for the Jets. The only way it would is if they get completely desperate with being unable to resign Trouba, and just go for the highest bid. But you already admit that wouldn't likely be us.

The Anaheim deal is a bit better, if you presume they are still looking for help at forward. I'm not sure they still are, but they do have a lot of good young D. Not so sure Nyquist + Holmstrom would get Fowler (E and Bieksa is more or less a wash), with Nyquist coming off a down year and with a longish-term contract. Also not sure Fowler is even good enough to be worth Nyquist.

Either you're not sure Nyquist and Holmstrom can get Fowler, or you're not sure Fowler is good enough to be worth just Nyquist. You're right about E and Bieska. That helps Anaheim because they will be forced to protect Bieska if he isn't traded, it helps us because we don't have to honor the NMC and can leave him unprotected for expansion. Plus they also don't have to protect Fowler anymore or Ericsson and can protect 3 of their younger better D. We'd protect Fowler of course.

I'd Love To Have both, I Too Agree The Anaheim trade seems more likely to work. I disagree though, Nyquist, holmstrom and Ericsson, puck is more than enough to get Fowler and Bieska. But now we'd have a jam up at D. Plus we'd be forced to waive all 3 kids.

DD - Fowler

Kronwall - Green

Smith - Marchenko

Bieska

Or maybe Bieska out plays Smith and earns the starting spot.

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Anybody read the NHL.com "5 Questions" article with Ken Holland? I liked that they're planning to start Zetterberg with Nielsen, but a bit disappointed that he didn't mention AA when talking about prospective centers. I'm going to be really irritated if they develop that kid into a winger.

It makes me wonder what the lines will look like...

Zetterberg - Nielsen - Vanek

Tatar - Larkin - Abdelkader

Nyquist - Sheahan - Helm

Miller - Glendening - Ott

Which leaves Jurco, Frk and Pulkkinen (healthy) with no waiver options.

Trading nyquist would open up a spot, but I'd like to see AA have it and center Sheahan and Helm. Still leaves 3 players with no waiver option.

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Anybody read the NHL.com "5 Questions" article with Ken Holland? I liked that they're planning to start Zetterberg with Nielsen, but a bit disappointed that he didn't mention AA when talking about prospective centers. I'm going to be really irritated if they develop that kid into a winger.

I believe he's talking just about this year, and there's next to no chance (barring a rash of injuries) that AA makes it as a center this year. Needs a lot of work on his defensive game, from what I saw. Within the next few years though, I too would hope the plan is to have him at center.

Either you're not sure Nyquist and Holmstrom can get Fowler, or you're not sure Fowler is good enough to be worth just Nyquist. ....

Both can be true. Murray would decide what Fowler would cost, reality would decide what he'd be worth.

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Either you're not sure Nyquist and Holmstrom can get Fowler, or you're not sure Fowler is good enough to be worth just Nyquist. You're right about E and Bieska. That helps Anaheim because they will be forced to protect Bieska if he isn't traded, it helps us because we don't have to honor the NMC and can leave him unprotected for expansion. Plus they also don't have to protect Fowler anymore or Ericsson and can protect 3 of their younger better D. We'd protect Fowler of course.

I'd Love To Have both, I Too Agree The Anaheim trade seems more likely to work. I disagree though, Nyquist, holmstrom and Ericsson, puck is more than enough to get Fowler and Bieska. But now we'd have a jam up at D. Plus we'd be forced to waive all 3 kids.

DD - Fowler

Kronwall - Green

Smith - Marchenko

Bieska

Or maybe Bieska out plays Smith and earns the starting spot.

In this scenario though, couldn't they just waive Bieksa?

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Here's our problem at expansion, according to generalfanager.Com both AA and Mantha need to be protected or be exposed...now who do you protect?

Abby

AA

Mantha

Nielsen automatic

Sheahan

Tatar

Nyquist

Z

Helm

That's two too many...we get 7 fwds, 3 D and 1 G.

Another reason to look to shipping nyquist off in a D deal. No one will snag Z would they, if you left him unprotected?

In this scenario though, couldn't they just waive Bieksa?

Sure, but if no one claims him, they're on the books for $4.1M against the cap. The only get $900,000 relief if they waive him and he clears... Edited by LeftWinger

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Here's our problem at expansion, according to generalfanager.Com both AA and Mantha need to be protected or be exposed...now who do you protect?

Abby

AA

Mantha

Nielsen automatic

Sheahan

Tatar

Nyquist

Z

Helm

That's two too many...we get 7 fwds, 3 D and 1 G.

Another reason to look to shipping nyquist off in a D deal. No one will snag Z would they, if you left him unprotected?

Sure, but if no one claims him, their on the books for $4.1M against the cap. The only get $900,000 relief if they waive him and he clears...

Ya i but we would have the caphit regardless, I would rather send him down and rather then lose XO or Sproul.

Also, there is no way they dont protect Zetterberg unless he is on LTIR. It would be a complete embarrassment to lose our captain and longest tenured Wing in an expansion draft. He is exactly the type of vet an expansion team would want.

Edited by kliq

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Ya i but we would have the caphit regardless, I would rather send him down and rather then lose XO or Sproul.

Me too, I guess, but what if he comes and out plays them? We all know Holland isn't going to be in on any of these guys anyhow. He'll never trade his prize Swedes. Fowler and Trouba will be dealt somewhere else for less return I'm sure. Oh, and all 3 of Z, Kronwall and E will get protected at expansion. Watch...

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Me too, I guess, but what if he comes and out plays them? We all know Holland isn't going to be in on any of these guys anyhow. He'll never trade his prize Swedes. Fowler and Trouba will be dealt somewhere else for less return I'm sure. Oh, and all 3 of Z, Kronwall and E will get protected at expansion. Watch...

Zetterberg should be protected, Kronwall....depends on how this year goes. If E gets protected I would be pretty upset.

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I believe he's talking just about this year, and there's next to no chance (barring a rash of injuries) that AA makes it as a center this year. Needs a lot of work on his defensive game, from what I saw. Within the next few years though, I too would hope the plan is to have him at center.

I hope that's the case. I honestly didn't think his defensive game was terrible for a rookie, but I agree he needs to work on some things to be a regular center. Namely his faceoffs (which is my big worry with Larkin moving to C this year too).

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