Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[e_prime 1,936]

If I had to guess, I think the reason why nobody is complaining about it, is because he and his camp have not gone public ala the Drouin situation. Plus, I'm sure there is a bias since this could benefit the Wings lol.

There's serious rumblings tho'. I'll have to find the article I was reading where it seemed a little more pronounced.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I'd be ecstatic if Holland were to pull off a big trade that brought in Trouba without giving up anything too crazy. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening. Despite everything lining up and looking like a slam dunk trade opportunity, I don't see Holland making it happen. If Trouba doesn't end up staying in Winnipeg, I bet he gets traded to a team like Boston for a very underwhelming return...

[NerveDamage 4,176]

I'd be ecstatic if Holland were to pull off a big trade that brought in Trouba without giving up anything too crazy. Unfortunately, I don't see it happening. Despite everything lining up and looking like a slam dunk trade opportunity, I don't see Holland making it happen. If Trouba doesn't end up staying in Winnipeg, I bet he gets traded to a team like Boston for a very underwhelming return...

Trouba's expecting a big deal, since he's gonna becoe an FA I read he was asking 7-8 years for $56 mill and, as you said, Boston was offering about the same years for $50 mill. Do we have that kind of cash to buy him over? Not without moving some assets and freeing up cap space, right?

Edited August 28, 2016 by NerveDamage

[LeftWinger 4,961]

I guess what I'm saying is, AA and Mantha are both highly asked about, so I am just saying that either of them would be a blue chip in a trade.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Trouba may be looking for a huge contract, but that doesn't mean he will get anything close to what he wants. Look at the contract Jones just signed with Columbus, $5.4M x 6 years. I don't see how Trouba can expect to get more than that, certainly not $7-8M over max term. I also think he would take a slight discount to play at home for his childhood team, knowing he will be a staple on the top pair for the duration of his contract. If we were able to trade for Trouba and sign him to around what DeKeyser / Jones just signed it would be huge for this team. I'd go as high as $6M, but I think even that would be a bit of an over payment as of right now.

As for cap space, yes we would have to get rid of a big contract in order to make it work, but regardless of this trade scenario, Holland should be working on freeing up cap anyway. Howard should be gone by the end of this season at the latest. There are always ways to shed cap space.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Broken down by games played and minutes played AA is at .04 points per minute, Nyquist is .03 for last season, not even factoring in quality of minutes, or linemates or PP. For mY money AA is better and if given top 6 and more important minutes, and better linemates, he'd outscore nyquist.

[kickazz 5,459]

AA is a center, Nyquist is a winger. That's apples and oranges. Not to mention a centerman (especially one that can play winger) will always be more valuable.

Edited August 28, 2016 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 4,961]

The point was he took advantage of the limited time he had and basically outscored someone getting 6 more mins per game plus better linmates.

[kickazz 5,459]

We like our team.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

The point was he took advantage of the limited time he had and basically outscored someone getting 6 more mins per game plus better linmates.

In a small sample size. Lots of kids come in and tear it up short term, then never take a major step forward, Nyquist is a prime example.

[e_prime 1,936]

We like our team.

Speak for yourself, bub.

TBH: The only untouchables for me right now are Larkin, DeKeyser, and Mrazek

Edited August 28, 2016 by e_prime

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Speak for yourself, bub.

TBH: The only untouchables for me right now are Larkin, DeKeyser, and Mrazek

It'd take a lit, but I'd trade Larkin or Mrazek. Certainly Dekeyser should be moved for a #1 D

[kickazz 5,459]

I mean anyone can be traded but we're talking Holland's perspective here. He probably thinks Larkin is untouchable followed by Mrazek. I'm not sure if he thinks DK is untouchable though. I mean it's not like DK is an elite defenseman on the other hand Larkin and Mrazek are projected to be elite players in the league.

Edited August 29, 2016 by kickazz

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

It'd take a lit, but I'd trade Larkin or Mrazek. Certainly Dekeyser should be moved for a #1 D

For who?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I mean anyone can be traded but we're talking Holland's perspective here. He probably thinks Larkin is untouchable followed by Mrazek. I'm not sure if he thinks DK is untouchable though. I mean it's not like DK is an elite defenseman on the other hand Larkin and Mrazek are projected to be elite players in the league.

Holland thinks Glendening and Miller are untouchable

For who?

Anyone of similar age who is better.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Now we're trading Larkin and Mrazek...

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I mean anyone can be traded but we're talking Holland's perspective here. He probably thinks Larkin is untouchable followed by Mrazek. I'm not sure if he thinks DK is untouchable though. I mean it's not like DK is an elite defenseman on the other hand Larkin and Mrazek are projected to be elite players in the league.

Untouchable in my mind = huge overpayment needed, everyone can be traded the best player ever was traded 25 years ago.

There is no elite defenseman available, Weber was traded for Subban the Wings don't have the pieces to pull of something like that. Depending on the plus I would consider trading larkin for Trouba because teams are built from the backend, although this team would then have to look for a potential number 1 center, so it's tough.

If Trouba wants out which I doubt, Holland has to be the first to inquire about him, good ol' Michigan boy, good size and the potential to become a number 1 defenseman.

[kickazz 5,459]

Holland thinks Glendening and Miller are untouchable

Anyone of similar age who is better.

Glendening = coaches favorite. You can tell by his usage. Edited August 29, 2016 by kickazz

[e_prime 1,936]

Holland thinks Glendening and Miller are untouchable

I'm sure if Glendening or Miller were the crucial cogs or even just the extra piece to any #1D deal getting done, if asked Holland would personally pack their bags for them and drive them to their new destination.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

If that's the case, from now on Helm is in my Winnipeg scenarios.

Helm, Mantha, Smith, pick for Trouba. Get it done Kenny.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Now we're trading Larkin and Mrazek...

To get a better player, he'll yes

[kipwinger 8,524]

So you'd trade any player for a better player? How profound. Nobody is arguing against that meaningless platitude. This whole conversation spawned from a discussion about trading our top prospects for one of Trouba, Fowler, or Shattenkirk. None of whom are top defensemen. That's where your scenario falls apart, as has been pointed out. But you keep beating this drum for some reason.

Despite all the gushing over these guys from the LGW faithful, all of Trouba, Fowler, and Shattenkirk have real holes in their games. Trouba, for instance, has been heralded as a "potential 1D" despite showing Danny Dekeyser like offensive skills during his pro career. None of these guys are top defensemen on their teams. The fact that they'd be a top defenseman on our team doesn't make them better players, it just means we're not that great. If your 1D is worse than all the other 1D around the league you're still at a relative loss. And that's BEFORE you factor in the fact that you lost a top prospect to make it happen.

I'd have been happy to trade for ANY of them if we'd landed a decent offensive player in FA. Replacing Nyquist or Tatar with Okposo would have made one of them expendable. And a trade would have made sense. But doing it now, with a top prospect, is a recipe for disaster.

Edited August 30, 2016 by kipwinger

[Buppy 1,720]

So you'd trade any player for a better player? How profound. Nobody is arguing against that meaningless platitude. This whole conversation spawned from a discussion about trading our top prospects for one of Trouba, Fowler, or Shattenkirk. None of whom are top defensemen. That's where your scenario falls apart, as has been pointed out. But you keep beating this drum for some reason.

Despite all the gushing over these guys from the LGW faithful, all of Trouba, Fowler, and Shattenkirk have real holes in their games. Trouba, for instance, has been heralded as a "potential 1D" despite showing Danny Dekeyser like offensive skills during his pro career. None of these guys are top defensemen on their teams. The fact that they'd be a top defenseman on our team doesn't make them better players, it just means we're not that great. If your 1D is worse than all the other 1D around the league you're still at a relative loss. And that's BEFORE you factor in the fact that you lost a top prospect to make it happen.

I'd have been happy to trade for ANY of them if we'd landed a decent offensive player in FA. Replacing Nyquist or Tatar with Okposo would have made one of them expendable. And a trade would have made sense. But doing it now, with a top prospect, is a recipe for disaster.

Well, we did sign Vanek, who has produced at a similar rate. That combined with the potential of our prospects certainly makes them expendable, to the extent that any important player can ever really be considered as such.

Of course, for one of them AND a top prospect (let alone Larkin) I'd have to get someone better than anyone rumored to be available.

For Fowler or Trouba I'd do Nyquist + something minor (2nd-tier prospect or 3rd-round pick). Bit more for Shattenkirk if he came with an extention, or less if not. Rather have Lindholm or Vatanen from Anaheim though. I'd give up a little extra for Lindholm even.

I'd also substitute Tatar for Nyquist, but we'd have to work something else out to make the cap work.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Trouba is four years younger, is bigger, and has more upside. Fowler is 24, bigger, and still has plenty of room to improve. Dekeyser probably will get better, but not take a big leap forward like either of the younger guys could. I'd move one of Mantha, AA, Tatar, Nyquist plus either Smith or a second rounder for either. If other players were involved, say Scheifele and Trouba for Larkin, Smith, and Marchenko, I'd probably consider doing that too.

You have to give to get, and Holland and several people here don't want to give anything good. Larkin is probably going to be a 65-70 point two way center. AA is probably going to be a second line forward. Mrazek is a probably gong to be a good goalie but who knows, goalies are impossible to really project. Too many things can go wrong with them, and other teams have proven you don't need a top 5 goalie to win the Cup if your team is solid and doesn't give up a ton of prime scoring chances. What you do need is an elite defense man and a couple elite forwards, at least one of whom is a center. Outside of possibly Larkin, Detroit doesn't have those. To hear some people talk though, Larkin is for sure an elite player, AA is going to be almost as good, Dekeyser is a top pair D and maybe even a #1 if he gets a little better, and Mrazek is already one of the top goalies. Most of these are the same people who said they wouldn't have traded Nyquist or Sproul for anything short of Crosby or Ovechkin.

[Buppy 1,720]

Trouba is four years younger, is bigger, and has more upside. Fowler is 24, bigger, and still has plenty of room to improve. Dekeyser probably will get better, but not take a big leap forward like either of the younger guys could. I'd move one of Mantha, AA, Tatar, Nyquist plus either Smith or a second rounder for either. If other players were involved, say Scheifele and Trouba for Larkin, Smith, and Marchenko, I'd probably consider doing that too.

You have to give to get, and Holland and several people here don't want to give anything good. Larkin is probably going to be a 65-70 point two way center. AA is probably going to be a second line forward. Mrazek is a probably gong to be a good goalie but who knows, goalies are impossible to really project. Too many things can go wrong with them, and other teams have proven you don't need a top 5 goalie to win the Cup if your team is solid and doesn't give up a ton of prime scoring chances. What you do need is an elite defense man and a couple elite forwards, at least one of whom is a center. Outside of possibly Larkin, Detroit doesn't have those. To hear some people talk though, Larkin is for sure an elite player, AA is going to be almost as good, Dekeyser is a top pair D and maybe even a #1 if he gets a little better, and Mrazek is already one of the top goalies. Most of these are the same people who said they wouldn't have traded Nyquist or Sproul for anything short of Crosby or Ovechkin.

Regarding the bolded: No one has ever said that, or even anything close to it.

In fact, your trade proposals aren't substantially different than what everyone else is thinking, including Holland I would wager.

Some people think more highly of AA's potential than you apparently do. And maybe they're over-valuing him. So what. Some would say you're doing the exact same thing with Trouba and Fowler.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Buppy