Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Trouba means "pipe" in Russian. Kinda funny.

[Jacksoni 418]

I'd like to throw an uppercut for Alexey Marchenko, a silent sleeper here. He is on the Russian national team, a hard thing to accomplish. He could, and possibly should crack our top 4 defensive lineup next season.

Something to keep a close eye on in the world cup of hockey.

[kickazz 5,459]

I'd like to throw an uppercut for Alexey Marchenko, a silent sleeper here. He is on the Russian national team, a hard thing to accomplish. He could, and possibly should crack our top 4 defensive lineup next season.

Something to keep a close eye on in the world cup of hockey.

He's bit underrated amongst fans.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

He's bit underrated amongst fans.

I actually agree here. I'm a big fan of Marchenko.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

He's bit underrated amongst fans.

I thought it was the other way around, honestly. He's a plug. Just happens to be a young plug.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Trouba is four years younger, is bigger, and has more upside. Fowler is 24, bigger, and still has plenty of room to improve. Dekeyser probably will get better, but not take a big leap forward like either of the younger guys could. I'd move one of Mantha, AA, Tatar, Nyquist plus either Smith or a second rounder for either. If other players were involved, say Scheifele and Trouba for Larkin, Smith, and Marchenko, I'd probably consider doing that too.

You have to give to get, and Holland and several people here don't want to give anything good. Larkin is probably going to be a 65-70 point two way center. AA is probably going to be a second line forward. Mrazek is a probably gong to be a good goalie but who knows, goalies are impossible to really project. Too many things can go wrong with them, and other teams have proven you don't need a top 5 goalie to win the Cup if your team is solid and doesn't give up a ton of prime scoring chances. What you do need is an elite defense man and a couple elite forwards, at least one of whom is a center. Outside of possibly Larkin, Detroit doesn't have those. To hear some people talk though, Larkin is for sure an elite player, AA is going to be almost as good, Dekeyser is a top pair D and maybe even a #1 if he gets a little better, and Mrazek is already one of the top goalies. Most of these are the same people who said they wouldn't have traded Nyquist or Sproul for anything short of Crosby or Ovechkin.

I st not to get overhyped about what a 20 year old is doing in juniors or GR when people say things like Nyquist is the next Zetterberg or Pulkkunen is going to score 30 or 40 goals a year in the NHL. That's not even close to saying a 24 year old NHL player could still take a step forward.

It's not just with GR prospects. You talk down the potential of Mrazek (24), Larkin (20), Tatar (25) (in other posts) in arguments for trading them. And, yet, for some reason you seem to think Fowler potential to be a high level player is more credible.

I think there's a chance Fowler gets a bit better, but I don't think he's the top pairing guy we're looking for. Especially for what think it would cost to get him.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

It's not just with GR prospects. You talk down the potential of Mrazek (24), Larkin (20), Tatar (25) (in other posts) in arguments for trading them. And, yet, for some reason you seem to think Fowler potential to be a high level player is more credible.

I think there's a chance Fowler gets a bit better, but I don't think he's the top pairing guy we're looking for. Especially for what think it would cost to get him.

I like Larkin and Mrazek, I just don't think that they are elite yet, and I question if Larkin will ever get there. Fowler, even if he doesn't get any better at all, is still better than anyone the Wings have except Dekeyser. Tatar and Nyquist are guys that can be replaced internally with AA or Mantha. They don't have that on defense.

[amato 3,210]

Trouba means "pipe" in Russian. Kinda funny.

He is seeming more and more like a trouba dream.....

....I'll see myself out.

[joesuffP 1,746]

Marchenko doesn't wow you but he's a lot better than any rookie defensemen the wings have brought up since Kronwall

It's okay to be optimistic people it doesn't make you a worse fan than others

[kickazz 5,459]

I like Larkin and Mrazek, I just don't think that they are elite yet, and I question if Larkin will ever get there. Fowler, even if he doesn't get any better at all, is still better than anyone the Wings have except Dekeyser. Tatar and Nyquist are guys that can be replaced internally with AA or Mantha. They don't have that on defense.

Bit hypocritical here. You JUST made the point of overhyping 20 year olds and Mantha has played like 10 NHL games yet somehow he's has the ability to replace Nyquist and Tatar. It sounds like you're overhyping Mantha to me.

Edited September 2, 2016 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I think Mantha is going to be a 20-25 goal guy. Maybe not this year, but they're not winning the Cup this year anyway. If that's overhyping him, so be it.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Larkin has a lot of potential but I don't think he'll ever be a McDavid or Eichel type level which is fine, if Larkin can become a number 1 center who is solid that would be fantastic.

Mrazek still hasn't shown the consistency to be labeled a great starting goalie.

Mantha should've gotten the chance to play in the olayoffs he for sure has the potential to become better than Goose and Tatar..his shot is deadly and he has great size.

Defense is Dekeyser and then nothing

AA has played 20 games so let's be slow with expectations , I think he will become one of the best 3 line centers in the game but top 6 is pushing it.

[joesuffP 1,746]

What exactly is going to hold AA back from being a top six player? With his skill set I'll bank on him being a top six in his prime and that's a pretty modest prediction. Becoming a top six around the league isn't some amazing feat

Edited September 2, 2016 by joesuffP

[kliq 3,755]

Larkin has a lot of potential but I don't think he'll ever be a McDavid or Eichel type level which is fine, if Larkin can become a number 1 center who is solid that would be fantastic.

I don't think anyone would argue with you in terms of McDavid, the guy is going to be an elite superstar. As far as Eichel goes, I dont see how you can say Larkin "wont ever be an Eichel type player" when he's already performing at Eichel's level.

Last year Larkin played 80 games, Eichel 81.......here are their numbers:

Goals: 24-23 Eichel

Assists: 32-22 Eichel

Plus/Minus: (+11) - (-16) Larkin

Game Winning Goals: 5-5 Tie

Shooting Percentage: 10.4% - 10.1% Larkin

Shots: 238-221 Eichel

You really can't get any closer then that.

I am curious what the advanced metrics say, but there is really no point to post as I know you look down on advanced stats.

[kickazz 5,459]

He probably thinks Eichel is at another level than Larkin because Eichel was picked number 2 and Larkin was picked number 15 and because the Canadian press overhyped McDavid and Eichel and whatever they say is the bible of hockey.

Eichel and Larkin are at a similar level with Eichel having a bit of better season. McDavid is on another level. That's how their rookie seasons turned out to be.

I mean Eichel could score 40 points less than Larkin and somehow Eichel will still be the better player because that's the hype train. Lol ignore math freak NERDY data but blindly follow the hockey press as if it's the second coming of christ, like a nerd. Nerds everywhere. EVERYWHERE.

Edited September 2, 2016 by kickazz

[Jaymister 71]

I would like to see Sproul, Oullete,AA and Mantha in the opening night lineup. Give them a chance, see if they're ready.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree, really want to see the kids get a chance. More than anything though, I want to see Sproul make the team. I think it would be a huge mistake to waive him, as I don't see any chance of him clearing waivers. I know a lot of people don't think he'll amount to much at the NHL level, but I still think he has it in him to become a middle pairing, power-play quarter back. Despite the lack of opportunity and what seems to be, confidence from management, I'm still much higher on him than any other kid in the system. And yes, that includes Marchenko, Ouellet, Jensen, Russo, Hicketts, Saarijarvi, etc... I hope he picks up right where he left off from last year's playoff run. He was a beast, and if he continues that level of play, I don't see any way management don't give him a legit shot.

[kickazz 5,459]

I think Mantha is going to be a 20-25 goal guy. Maybe not this year, but they're not winning the Cup this year anyway. If that's overhyping him, so be it.

Yeah that's overhyping lol. Guy hasn't even played like 20 games in the NHL and hes already scoring 20-25 and leading the Red Wings in goal scoring (with that range).

[krsmith17 7,191]

I don't think 20-25 goals for a player like Mantha is overhyping at all. That's a very realistic expectation in my opinion. No one is saying he would do this next year, but in 2-3 years time? Absolutely.

I'm also with Dickie in that giving up Nyquist or Tatar in a package for a top pair defenseman is what we should be going for. The amount of goals we'd lose in either of those players would be made up by a combination of whoever replaces them up front and the defenseman we get back in the trade. Not saying it will happen, or that Cheveldayoff would be willing to do it, but Nyquist plus should be a good starting point for a team with a player that wants out. They're likely going to want a defenseman coming back as well, so maybe they would have interest in Marchenko. I don't know, but something needs to be done with this roster. Holland's getting lucky with all the injuries, but at some point, all of these players will be healthy and at that point (if not sooner) a trade will have to happen, or lose players on waivers...

[kickazz 5,459]

The point isn't what Mantha will or won't do. Dickie takes issue when others talk about how 20 or so year olds like Larkin or AA will be great players but when it comes to Mantha he's doing the exact same thing. If anything at least Larkin and AA are proven NHL rookies, Mantha hasn't even sniffed more than 10 NHL games yet. To make ANY sort of prediction in Mantha's scoring rate is probably more far fetched than to make predictions on Larkin or AA.

Edited September 2, 2016 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

You think that predicting that a player can score 20-25 goals is predicting that they will be "great"? 105 players did that or better last season, 92 the year before. 20-25 goals is good production, not great, and I don't think it's at all far fetched to think that Mantha will be a good player...

[kipwinger 8,520]

I'd give up Nyquist or Tatar for a 1D too. Unfortunately none are available so it's a moot point. The problem with you and Dickie's argument is that you both have just gone ahead and anointed Trouba and/or Fowler and/or Shattenkirk as "top defensemen"...which they aren't.

Would you give up Nyquist or Tatar for a 2D? What about a second pair guy? Because that's what you're getting.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I don't think anyone would argue with you in terms of McDavid, the guy is going to be an elite superstar. As far as Eichel goes, I dont see how you can say Larkin "wont ever be an Eichel type player" when he's already performing at Eichel's level.

Last year Larkin played 80 games, Eichel 81.......here are their numbers:

Goals: 24-23 Eichel

Assists: 32-22 Eichel

Plus/Minus: (+11) - (-16) Larkin

Game Winning Goals: 5-5 Tie

Shooting Percentage: 10.4% - 10.1% Larkin

Shots: 238-221 Eichel

You really can't get any closer then that.

I am curious what the advanced metrics say, but there is really no point to post as I know you look down on advanced stats.

Eichel has the size and skill to become a poor mans version of Mario Lemieux. I don't give a rats ass about how many shots or what shooting percentage a player has. If someone doesn't shoot a lot but scores almost everytime I take that over someone, who shoots a lot but doesn't score. Also I'm not looking down on the analytics I'm just not interested in this stuff. Goals, Assists, Save % for goalies, PIM, Hits and blocked shots are more than enough for me.

I mean Eichel could score 40 points less than Larkin and somehow Eichel will still be the better player because that's the hype train. Lol ignore math freak NERDY data but blindly follow the hockey press as if it's the second coming of christ, like a nerd. Nerds everywhere. EVERYWHERE.

There is somethiing called watching a game...I don't have to follow anyone but yeah I take the opnion of experts over lot of others. If you think Eichel and Larkin are at the same level go to a Buffalo board and make a proposal and let's see how that turns out.

The hype for Larkin almost reminds me on the Nyquist hype were people believed the guy could score 40 goals or him and Tatar might become the next euro twins *lol* I'd rather be realistic and expect things he can accomplish instead of dreaming and then be disappointed because he "only" turned out to be a solid number 1 center.

[kipwinger 8,520]

Eichel...cuz he big!!!!

He's 1 inch and 5lbs bigger than Larkin. What a giant.

Edited September 2, 2016 by kipwinger

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Eichel...cuz he big!!!!

He's 1 inch and 5lbs bigger than Larkin. What a giant.

Haven't you ever been told that 1 inch makes a difference?