Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[kickazz 5,459]

I understand that you think Fowler is a "mediocre" defenseman, but mock the idea that he could be traded for a top six winger. You point out his advanced stats and I know you're aware of Nyquist' and Tatar's stat lines, but it's hilarious to you to think a deal could get done there...

You're right, if given the opportunity Jurco would be a legit middle six winger, I can't say the same for Pulkkinen, and Smith did break out. He's exactly what I said he would become, a top 4 defenseman (looking at his advanced stats). Keep up the passive aggression though, looks great on you...

Lol, cmon you're the king of passive aggression, I'm probably the prince and I take pride in it. That's not really an insult for a forum poster since forums are full of passive aggression. You seem to support my passive-aggression when it's favoring your argument though. But hey, I do the same.

Mediocrity will get paid well in today's NHL. I'm surprised you haven't noticed that.

It's a simple concept. I have something that's not available, he's not the best version out there though and I know everyone will want it regardless. If you want it then it's going to be costly.

Edited September 3, 2016 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

Okay lets say Fowler is better than I'm giving him credit for. Say we trade him for Nyquist and whatever else it takes. You guys do realize it will probably be the only *major* trade we'll be doing for a few years. Does that satisfy you? Is this that one trade you want?

Edited September 3, 2016 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

I've been reading through this thread for close to an hour and I'm still not caught up...

You're going to start playing against me at my own game aren't you. I better brace myself. Jimmyemery has always been my trump card in debates.

Edited September 3, 2016 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Well, if Fowler would cost more than Nyquist or Tatar to start, then forger it. If Trouba starts at Larkin, forget it.

IMO, no way Trouba gets you a better prospect in a package than Mantha. No way Fowler would cost a better player than Nyquist to start. Now, that doesn't mean someone won't overpay for either of them, I just hope it's not Holland.

Mantha, XO, & a 1st, 3rd gets you Trouba all day long, more than worth it.

Nyquist, pick, Smith gets you Fowler.

If some Jack wagon wants to over value them and pay more, so be it.

Edited September 3, 2016 by LeftWinger

[kickazz 5,459]

All these arguments are starting to become moot anyway. It's September 3rd and not much has been on the radar and 99% there won't be a trade. There's always the 1% though so.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Okay lets say Fowler is better than I'm giving him credit for. Say we trade him for Nyquist and whatever else it takes. You guys do realize it will probably be the only *major* trade we'll be doing for a few years. Does that satisfy you? Is this that one trade you want?

Considering Trouba will probably cost more than Fowler and Barrie probably isn't really available, yes, getting Fowler would be good. You seem to think that if they dont get Fowler they're going to get someone else instead, like Holland is buying a new car and he's choosing between a Corvettte, an Escalade, or a Buick.

All these arguments are starting to become moot anyway. It's September 3rd and not much has been on the radar and 99% there won't be a trade. There's always the 1% though so.

It's Holland, of course it's all academic. What was the last trade he made where he brought in a decent player not at the deadline, Stuart?

[kickazz 5,459]

Considering Trouba will probably cost more than Fowler and Barrie probably isn't really available, yes, getting Fowler would be good. You seem to think that if they dont get Fowler they're going to get someone else instead, like Holland is buying a new car and he's choosing between a Corvettte, an Escalade, or a Buick.

I'm just the type that doesn't want to rush for the Honda Civic when I could wait and buy the Cadillac. Or maybe build my own.

Edited September 3, 2016 by kickazz

[NerveDamage 4,176]

I'm just the type that doesn't want to rush for the Honda Civic when I could wait and buy the Cadillac. Or maybe build my own.

Now I get why your love for Swedes

[kliq 3,755]

Considering Trouba will probably cost more than Fowler and Barrie probably isn't really available, yes, getting Fowler would be good. You seem to think that if they dont get Fowler they're going to get someone else instead, like Holland is buying a new car and he's choosing between a Corvettte, an Escalade, or a Buick.

It's Holland, of course it's all academic. What was the last trade he made where he brought in a decent player not at the deadline, Stuart?

Stuart was a trade deadline acquisition.

Bert and Lang were also trade deadline guys, pretty sure so was Schenieder. So the last decent player brought in not at the deadline would have to be Hasek on June 30th 2001. Wow.

[kickazz 5,459]

Now I get why your love for Swedes

I don't love Swedes. I just like ours. And any Slovak, Russian, American or Canadian who plays for us. Who cares about Karlsson, Backstrom, Lundqvist, Hedman (ew rival). Hopefully they lose badly in the World Cup now that no Red Wings player is on there.

Stuart was a trade deadline acquisition.

Bert and Lang were also trade deadline guys, pretty sure so was Schenieder. So the last decent player brought in not at the deadline would have to be Hasek on June 30th 2001. Wow.

Dam, didn't realize it went that far lol.

Edited September 3, 2016 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Stuart was a trade deadline acquisition.

Bert and Lang were also trade deadline guys, pretty sure so was Schenieder. So the last decent player brought in not at the deadline would have to be Hasek on June 30th 2001. Wow.

I should have said rental. Stuart was brought in with the idea of keeping him. Bertuzzi and Lang the same.

[LeftWinger 4,951]

Damn it! Everytime I click here and I don't see "trade" as a topic, I get furious! But I guess I should be careful what I wish for or AA or worse yet Larkin could be gone!

I just need some hockey and for our current d to become the D we all wish they were! Is that too much to a ask?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Damn it! Everytime I click here and I don't see "trade" as a topic, I get furious! But I guess I should be careful what I wish for or AA or worse yet Larkin could be gone!

I just need some hockey and for our current d to become the D we all wish they were! Is that too much to a ask?

Wish in one hand, crap in the other, see which fills first. The D is crap. Dekeyser is the best barring a miraculous Kronwall recovery and he's best suited as a good #3. Smith might be a good second pair guy if he didn't have so many brain cramps. Ericsson has regressed to the point where he's an adequate third pair d. Kronwall's knee is toast. Marchenko and XO project as ok second pair guys at best, Sproul probably not even that, and Jensen is most likely a career AHL/#7. Without a trade the team is sunk, and Holland is completely unable or unwilling to make one unless it's for a guy who wants out, or at least is rumored to be thinking about Europe. Edited September 4, 2016 by DickieDunn

[Andy Pred 48 337]

I got a funny feeling that Helm could be included in a deal for Trouba.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I don't think Winnipeg is that dumb

[frankgrimes 1,836]

if Trouba gets moved, there will be a bidding war for the guy. Same with Fowler he may cost a bit less but there is no way a one for one trade like Fowler for Nyquist, Tatar is going to happen. Wings will have to throw in something valuable maybe AA.

If Kronwall can't go then yeah that defense is even worse and Holland can't be stubborn enough to go into the season with this defense

[DickieDunn 2,571]

if Trouba gets moved, there will be a bidding war for the guy. Same with Fowler he may cost a bit less but there is no way a one for one trade like Fowler for Nyquist, Tatar is going to happen. Wings will have to throw in something valuable maybe AA.

If Kronwall can't go then yeah that defense is even worse and Holland can't be stubborn enough to go into the season with this defense

And it would be worth it to get Fowler or Trouba

[frankgrimes 1,836]

And it would be worth it to get Fowler or Trouba

For sure it would, especially for Trouba

[Buppy 1,720]

And it would be worth it to get Fowler or Trouba

I disagree. In our position we're looking a few years down the road, and I think AA will be more valuable to us than either of those guys.

Further, I don't think it would cost a top prospect anyway. The Ducks are a contender (at least borderline) and are looking to get over the hump. They're going to want something that makes them better now. Does Murray think Nyquist (or Tatar, but the cap makes that a little more complicated) for Fowler does that? If so, we wouldn't have to add a top prospect or high pick. If not, we probably can't make a deal no matter what we add (barring a stupid overpayment). He'll find a better deal elsewhere. And if he's super high on one of our prospects for some reason, we would likely be able to work something out with a lesser roster forward.

I also wouldn't think WPG would be interested in that kind of deal either. I've said before I don't there's a deal to found between us and Jets. The only thing I could see would be something like Smith+1st+top prospect. Too much for Trouba IMO.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I disagree. In our position we're looking a few years down the road, and I think AA will be more valuable to us than either of those guys.

Further, I don't think it would cost a top prospect anyway. The Ducks are a contender (at least borderline) and are looking to get over the hump. They're going to want something that makes them better now. Does Murray think Nyquist (or Tatar, but the cap makes that a little more complicated) for Fowler does that? If so, we wouldn't have to add a top prospect or high pick. If not, we probably can't make a deal no matter what we add (barring a stupid overpayment). He'll find a better deal elsewhere. And if he's super high on one of our prospects for some reason, we would likely be able to work something out with a lesser roster forward.

I also wouldn't think WPG would be interested in that kind of deal either. I've said before I don't there's a deal to found between us and Jets. The only thing I could see would be something like Smith+1st+top prospect. Too much for Trouba IMO.

A second line forward is more valuable than a top pairing D? Fowler and Trouba are both young enough to be helping Detroit for several years.

[kickazz 5,459]

A second line forward is more valuable than a top pairing D? Fowler and Trouba are both young enough to be helping Detroit for several years.

Whose a 2nd line winger? AA? Last I checked he's a natural centerman

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Whose a 2nd line winger? AA? Last I checked he's a natural centerman

FORWARD. Please read the post before arguing it. And just because he's a center in juniors and the minors doesn't mean he will be a center in the NHL. Besides, the point remains, second top pair D is more valuable than a second line forward, be it a center or winger. Edited September 4, 2016 by DickieDunn

[Buppy 1,720]

A second line forward is more valuable than a top pairing D? Fowler and Trouba are both young enough to be helping Detroit for several years.

I think it's pretty well established that we are not all in perfect agreement in our assessments of the players we're talking about. Yes, I think AA will be more valuable than Fowler or Trouba. Obviously you disagree. No need to wander in circles.

Regardless, I think it's moot, as I explained in the previous post.

[e_prime 1,936]

Whose a 2nd line winger? AA? Last I checked he's a natural centerman

Wasn't Darren Helm also a natural center? Didn't he play 2nd line winger? Aren't we all Darren Helm?

If you could have Ken Holland deal any one player from the roster BEFORE the season starts and not considering the return, meaning, it's better to have them off the team than on -- Who would it be and why?

Edited September 5, 2016 by e_prime

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Wasn't Darren Helm also a natural center? Didn't he play 2nd line winger? Aren't we all Darren Helm?

If you could have Ken Holland deal any one player from the roster BEFORE the season starts and not considering the return, meaning, it's better to have them off the team than on -- Who would it be and why?

Helm, Abdelkader, Glendening, Ericsson, and Howard, all to dump bad contracts.