Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[kliq 3,755]

Here is the problem with an offer sheet. If you offer Trouba an offer sheet and he signs, Winnipeg just matches it out of principal and then if they do decide to trade him, you are out of the running. Not to mention, Trouba is taking the risk of being stuck in Winnipeg long term if decides to sign it.

[e_prime 1,936]

Not that I totally disagree F. Michael, but you do realize you're not only asking Holland to dust off his balls and make an offer sheet, but you're also actually asking him to trust his youth... that's just crazy talk.

Edited September 6, 2016 by e_prime

[kliq 3,755]

So - why doesn't Winnipeg just trade him right now while he's still a RFA?

The way I see it - Trouba is stuck in Winnipeg until he's eligible for UFA status.

I get what you're saying - just that there's alot of dead air here with all these potential scenarios...There's alot of 'what ifs'...IMHO - Holland should find his balls - blow the dust off them - and do something which he's certainly getting paid to do.

EDIT - to add - I honestly don't think losing a 1st/2nd/3rd rounder all in the same draft year is gonna sink the USS Red Wings...There's a bunch of guys in GR who could potentially fill in at any time.

I wouldn't have an issue with an offer sheet if I believed it had a chance in hell in working, but from Weber to Kesler etc. history has shown that offer sheets do not work. I am 100% in on acquiring Trouba, but an offer sheet is just not the way to achieve our end goal, if that end goal is to get Trouba. I am for doing what gives up the best chance at landing him. If I were Holland I would offer something like AA, 1st round pick, and Howard for Trouba and Pavlec.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I think Trouba signs a bridge deal and then gets out of Winnipeg after the end of it. But man his agent is nutts no way Trouba should be playing in the world cup of hockey.

[Buppy 1,720]

Mantha, XO, 1st, 3rd gets Trouba all day. Very realistic, very doable, both teams win. If Winnipeg doesn't match a $5.5M offer sheet all they get in return in the picks. Trade them those picks and upgrade the package with our top O prospect and one our top D prospects.

Winnipeg would be stupid not to snatched that deal up. Problem is, Holland is too stupid to offer that deal.

That's a pretty gross overpayment. That's a star-level package, and once again, Trouba is not a star.

He's the 3RD defenseman on the fricking Jets. We are not the Jets 3rd D away from being a contender. We add Trouba, chances are he doesn't make us significantly better. Why would anyone think he would? He hasn't made the Jets better.

Trouba is by far the most over-rated player in the league around here. I guess people are just that desperate.

...

EDIT - to add - I honestly don't think losing a 1st/2nd/3rd rounder all in the same draft year is gonna sink the USS Red Wings...There's a bunch of guys in GR who could potentially fill in at any time.

You may be right. Overpaying for Trouba (or someone else) probably wouldn't hurt us too much. If we could get someone for picks/prospects, even if overpaying, I might do still do it. The big problem with that is that it doesn't work for us cap-wise. The other problem is that the teams that are offering what we want are not rebuilding. A "quantity" package, even an overpayment, isn't likely to be the most appealing offer to them.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

That's a pretty gross overpayment. That's a star-level package, and once again, Trouba is not a star.

He's the 3RD defenseman on the fricking Jets. We are not the Jets 3rd D away from being a contender. We add Trouba, chances are he doesn't make us significantly better. Why would anyone think he would? He hasn't made the Jets better.

Trouba is by far the most over-rated player in the league around here. I guess people are just that desperate.

You may be right. Overpaying for Trouba (or someone else) probably wouldn't hurt us too much. If we could get someone for picks/prospects, even if overpaying, I might do still do it. The big problem with that is that it doesn't work for us cap-wise. The other problem is that the teams that are offering what we want are not rebuilding. A "quantity" package, even an overpayment, isn't likely to be the most appealing offer to them.

He's 22. You don't look at what he is, you look at what he will likely be down the road. At 22 most Wings D prospects are in GR or college. He's in the NHL.

[kipwinger 8,522]

He's 22. You don't look at what he is, you look at what he will likely be down the road. At 22 most Wings D prospects are in GR or college. He's in the NHL.

What is it you think he'll "likely" be? Because I haven't seen anything to suggest, so far, that he'll be any different that Tyler Myers, or Zach Bogosian, or Alex Edler, or Cody Franson. As a matter of fact, they ALL came into the league young too, performed BETTER than Trouba has to this point, and still never developed into top pairing guys.

He's never topped 30 points. You seem perfectly content to chalk that up to being young, but that belies the fact that lots of guys have come into the league at the same age and performed better. Any one of them showed as much, or more, "potential" as Trouba but didn't develop into top pair guys. So why are you so sure he will?

It's not unreasonable, for instance, to think that Mrazek will continue to improve and fulfill his potential. But that because he's played at a high level off and on for two seasons. He has SOMETIMES been excellent in his short career. Trouba has never shown that. He's never been anything other than pretty good. And he's regressed each season since his best one. So what's this "what he'll likely be" insinuation based on?

If you're willing to give up all this for Trouba based on his potential and age, what would you give for someone like David Savard? He's nearly as young, and has performed just as well as Trouba. What's he worth?

People are acting like Trouba is another Dougie Hamilton. An obvious top pair guy who's hitting the trade block. But he's not. His track record doesn't suggest that at all.

Edited September 6, 2016 by kipwinger

[DickieDunn 2,571]

points don't tell the whole story. He's the third rh D on their roster which means either he gets less time or he plays his off wing, something not everyone can effectively do. No, hes not a guarantee to be a top pair D, bit nobody is, and he has a better chance than anyone Detroit has now. As for Mrazek, he had a good half season them was hot garbage after mid February, and there's a long list of goalies who impressed early and flamed out, so there's no guarantee there either. Would I for sure do Mrazek for Trouba, I dont know. I'd damn sure consider it though. A forward other than Larkin plus a d going to Winnipeg, that's a no-brainer. But it's a moot point since we all know Holland is as capable of making a trade as a eunuch is of becoming a dad.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

points don't tell the whole story. He's the third rh D on their roster which means either he gets less time or he plays his off wing, something not everyone can effectively do. No, hes not a guarantee to be a top pair D, bit nobody is, and he has a better chance than anyone Detroit has now. As for Mrazek, he had a good half season them was hot garbage after mid February, and there's a long list of goalies who impressed early and flamed out, so there's no guarantee there either. Would I for sure do Mrazek for Trouba, I dont know. I'd damn sure consider it though. A forward other than Larkin plus a d going to Winnipeg, that's a no-brainer. But it's a moot point since we all know Holland is as capable of making a trade as a eunuch is of becoming a dad.

But it's so easy to look at the boxscore....

Honestly I fully agree with you, points especially for a defenseman aren't telling the whole story. Trouba is still very young and he would be a great addition to the team. The elite guys aren't available and even if they were the Wings don't have guys like Johanson, Subban, Weber to trade in order to pull of blockbusters like that so it's a moot point anyway. Nobody knows if Trouba can become that number 1 defensive horse the Wings so desperately need but the guy is already a top 4 defenseman and even Chara took a few years (into his late 20s) to come into his own.

People are always saying Trouba, Fowler aren't elite yes they aren't but still better than anyone not named Danny Dekeyser and you gotta pay for that. I think Holland would be capable of pulling a trade of but is he willing? I highly doubt it. Nurse would be another guy of interest, maybe he becomes unhappy in Edmonton and he's an RFA after this year, big highly skilled and he stands up for his teammates.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

by incapable I mean mentally incapable of it. His history the last decade shows he doesn't do trades, especially if he has to move a roster player to do it. I don't want him dealing every week just because he gets bored but this is ridiculous.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

points don't tell the whole story. He's the third rh D on their roster which means either he gets less time or he plays his off wing, something not everyone can effectively do. No, hes not a guarantee to be a top pair D, bit nobody is, and he has a better chance than anyone Detroit has now. As for Mrazek, he had a good half season them was hot garbage after mid February, and there's a long list of goalies who impressed early and flamed out, so there's no guarantee there either. Would I for sure do Mrazek for Trouba, I dont know. I'd damn sure consider it though. A forward other than Larkin plus a d going to Winnipeg, that's a no-brainer. But it's a moot point since we all know Holland is as capable of making a trade as a eunuch is of becoming a dad.

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous in my opinion. Mrazek is our future. We haven't had a goalie like this in?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I'm sorry but that's ridiculous in my opinion. Mrazek is our future. We haven't had a goalie like this in?

goalies of the future crash and burn a lot

[LeftWinger 4,958]

You got to pay, and sometimes you have to overpay.

Mantha, XO (or Sproul) 1st, 3rd. Trouba is ours.

To clear space you may have to throw in a roster player like Smith. But if Holland would get his head out of his ass and offer Nyquist, Smith and a pick for Fowler we'd have some room. Then we'd be set on D for a long time with both Trouba and Fowler.

The Winnipeg scenario is well worth the swap, but Holland would never offer it. No way Trouba gets Larkin out of us though. We're talking both young talent with tons of potential, but we're also comparing a player who doesn't want to play where he is and one that does. Trouba would love to play here, especially with the guaranteed top minutes and PP time. He'd go anywhere for that guarantee, but to do it at home? Yes, he would like to play here, he's said it, most local players would like to play for their home team at some point. So if he's (or anyone) has said it, why would they not if the chance came up? He'd be happy here for all the right reasons, home, playing time, money. Holland should be bending over backwards and crookedwards to get these guys home. Trouba and Fowler.

Edited September 6, 2016 by LeftWinger

[krsmith17 7,191]

I want to upgrade our defense as much as anyone and I agree that we will likely have to overpay in order to that. However, there's overpayment, and then there's massive overpayment... I'm not willing to gut our roster, creating holes, to fill holes...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

One forward plus Smith or younger D and picks is not gutting the roster

[krsmith17 7,191]

Agreed. I wasn't talking about that proposal, I was talking about certain other proposals including 5-7 assets going out and 1-2 coming back... If Nyquist, D prospect(s), pick(s) got us Trouba I'd do it all day. I wouldn't make that same trade for Fowler though...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I don't know that Trouba will ever be better than Fowler though. Giving up much more for him doesn't make a lot of sense. One forward, a d, and balancing the money should do it for either. Of course money wouldn't matter if Holland didn't spend it all on average players

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Howard.

Wasn't long ago that Howard was an 'All Star' caliber netminder.

A few seasons of bad luck (injuries) at the mid point of the season/s has rubbed off on him.

But I do agree - Mrazek is the future between the pipes.

I don't know who gave him that status but nothing I would have given him.

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

I don't know who gave him that status but nothing I would have given him.

Hasn't he, you know, made the all star team?

[kickazz 5,459]

I don't know who gave him that status but nothing I would have given him.

Lol the NHL did. The one's that selected him to the all star team.

Oh and TEAM USA for the Olympics.

Clearly when you're recognized internationally and nationally league wide, it must mean something.....

Edited September 6, 2016 by kickazz

[LeftWinger 4,958]

Agreed. I wasn't talking about that proposal, I was talking about certain other proposals including 5-7 assets going out and 1-2 coming back... If Nyquist, D prospect(s), pick(s) got us Trouba I'd do it all day. I wouldn't make that same trade for Fowler though...

I agree, if that would work, that would be great for Trouba, but I believe, once he gets shopped around, that another team will offer something better than Nyquist for Trouba. I'd overpay for both, just to beat out the other teams...

Mantha, XO (or Sproul) 1st, 3rd for Trouba is overpayment, but not many other teams would want to match that. It could happen, but I think Winnipeg would jump at that deal.

We would miss Mantha, but getting Trouba in return makes up for that because he is near the same age, yet has a lot of NHL experience. Another reason we wouldn't miss XO or Sproul. They need a 3rd pairing guy with a relatively small salary, so XO or Sproul would help them. The 1st and 3rd I don't think we'd miss at all. I fully believe we are again a playoff team (especially if we acquired Trouba, even more so if we also added Fowler) so that 1st, once again, would be around #17-#24 I'm thinking. The 3rd is the 3rd. We wouldn't miss those, I believe, because we have players now that we have no room for, that are ready, and soon we'll have even more ready. I think one year of not having a 1st wouldn't kill this team's reload. Again, I firmly believe with Vanek and Nielsen and Larkin getting more ice time, Z getting less, this team will finish much higher in the standings. Z will last longer with less icetime too.

Nyquist, Smith, conditional pick for Fowler. Again, overpayment? Maybe, but we'd have to open up another spot on D for both Trouba and Fowler, plus open up cap space to sign Trouba. Nyquist could be replaced with AA while Pulk and Jurco are out. If I wanted to collect some more later round picks, I could try to shop one of/or both Pulk and Jurco to get a couple more 4th-7th rounders.

Holland created this jam up front to shop for a d-man, he knows he'll have to move a few assets sooner or later so he doesn't have to waive anyone. I'm sure he felt that prices weren't going to be so high, but IMO, losing Mantha, Smith, XO (or Sproul,) Nyquist and the picks is not gutting the roster if you are getting back Trouba and Fowler, PLUS opening a spot for AA to be on the team.

It would take some doing to work it out under the cap, but it could work and we'd be a better team. I only wish it would happen, because we have no idea what Holland would offer, or what Winnipeg and Anaheim would ask for. I'd balk on trading AA for either of them. Larkin is a no trade, as is Mrazek and DD. ANd with the history of all GM's trying to rape Holland, I am sure one of those 4 names would be asked for from both teams, so we'll probably be out of luck in acquiring either of them...

I'd trade anyone from the team, except Larkin, DD, Mrazek and AA.

BTW, did y'all know that Sproul has not re-signed yet? He is an RFA and is probably holding out for some similar guarantees that Trouba wants. Like guaranteed to make the club, and get some playing time or sign and trade him to a team that will play him.

Did he or the team got file arbitration does anyone know?

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Hasn't he, you know, made the all star team?

Yes, I do but I wouldn't have given him the title. He's still average.

Lol the NHL did. The one's that selected him to the all star team.

Oh and TEAM USA for the Olympics.

Clearly when you're recognized internationally and nationally league wide, it must mean something.....

Maybe so but not to me.

[joesuffP 1,746]

In the 2013 playoffs Jimmy was outstanding. Just about carried us to the conference finals as a 7 seed that had to win their final 3 games to even make the playoffs

Been really excited for the start of the season so I've been watching old playoff Red Wings games. Rewatching that Ducks series in 2013. Was an incredible series and Z was so clutch

[wings_fanatic 677]

In the 2013 playoffs Jimmy was outstanding. Just about carried us to the conference finals as a 7 seed that had to win their final 3 games to even make the playoffs

Been really excited for the start of the season so I've been watching old playoff Red Wings games. Rewatching that Ducks series in 2013. Was an incredible series and Z was so clutch

Jimmy was good but he still did what he always does... Let in weak goals. Game 7 ot goal against the hawks for instance.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

this is the for at time in a long time I'm not that excited for the new hockey season. I have zero confidence that the Wings are going to do.much more than sneak into

the playoffs and lose in 4 or 5. Holland's body of work the last several years has taken the team from contender to mediocre and he hasn't done anything to get them back to contender status. Only two non-rental trades, middle of the roster players signed to long term deals, and almost every free agent has blown up in his face.