Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[kickazz 5,459]

Yes, I do but I wouldn't have given him the title. He's still average.

Maybe so but not to me.

Lol okay but a fans opinion doesn't trump national and international recognitions and accomplishments by official committees who gave him those titles. So Howard's an olympian (rare feat) and a former all star goalie.

Officially.

Edited September 7, 2016 by kickazz

[joesuffP 1,746]

Zetts-Nielson-Nyquist

Tatar-Larkin-Abby

Mantha-AA-Vanek

Sheahan-Glen-Helm

Lots of depth at forward

DD-Green

Smith-Marchenko

Kronwall-E

Lots of questions on D. Can Green play efficiently enough at 20+ minutes a night? Can Kronwall bounce back and be a good top 4? Need another RH top 4 badly. Marchenko is likely over his head in the top 4. Adding a RH'd top 4 and ditching E really solidifies all three units

this is the for at time in a long time I'm not that excited for the new hockey season. I have zero confidence that the Wings are going to do.much more than sneak into

the playoffs and lose in 4 or 5. Holland's body of work the last several years has taken the team from contender to mediocre and he hasn't done anything to get them back to contender status. Only two non-rental trades, middle of the roster players signed to long term deals, and almost every free agent has blown up in his face.

Kind of crappy outlook as a fan. Only interested when they're contenders? Would you watch them be a lottery team like you wish they were?

I enjoy these rebuilding years. For this first time since Steve Yzerman we're watching a 20 year old kid be the best player on the team. Mrazek, AA etc. Our best players are the youngest on the team

Edited September 7, 2016 by joesuffP

[e_prime 1,936]

Zetts-Nielson-Nyquist

Tatar-Larkin-Abby

Mantha-AA-Vanek

Sheahan-Glen-Helm

Lots of depth at forward

I enjoy these rebuilding years. For this first time since Steve Yzerman we're watching a 20 year old kid be the best player on the team. Mrazek, AA etc. Our best players are the youngest on the team

...and even more when you consider Jurco, Pulkinnen, Ott, and Miller. A lot of flexibility.

I too like watching the Wings build on the fly. Is Holland doing everything that I wish he were? No.

He continues to be over cautious and too measured in his approach, which to be honest, is getting a bit stale.

Will the team be worse if we overpay a bit for a defenseman? Probably not.

So, while I understand the frustration that others have towards the upcoming season and see it as more of the same old same old...

I think it's wayyyy to early to be this doom and gloom.

[MileHighWingsGuy 178]

I wish the Redwings had a GM like my Broncos have with Elway. Holland needs to move on.

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Predicable is boring. I am more excited for this season than any in a few years. I am really intrigued to see what kind of players we have developing and whether they can take that next step. Can Vanek contribute? How good is Neilson going to be? How good can Mrazek be? Can't wait for this season....

[LeftWinger 4,961]

For Vanek to contribute, he needs to be 2nd line or higher. 3rd line won't do anything for him and he'll be scoring 15 goals. He needs to play with Nielsen or Larkin.

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Looking at the list of prospects at tge tourney, I'm even more convinced we can afford to skip a year without a couple of picks. If a trade presents itself, I think Holland would be stupid to not be willing to move a 1st rounder. Especially if it meant getting a 22 year old right handed dman with a few years nhl experience.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Zetts-Nielson-Nyquist

Tatar-Larkin-Abby

Mantha-AA-Vanek

Sheahan-Glen-Helm

Lots of depth at forward

DD-Green

Smith-Marchenko

Kronwall-E

Lots of questions on D. Can Green play efficiently enough at 20+ minutes a night? Can Kronwall bounce back and be a good top 4? Need another RH top 4 badly. Marchenko is likely over his head in the top 4. Adding a RH'd top 4 and ditching E really solidifies all three units

Kind of crappy outlook as a fan. Only interested when they're contenders? Would you watch them be a lottery team like you wish they were?

I enjoy these rebuilding years. For this first time since Steve Yzerman we're watching a 20 year old kid be the best player on the team. Mrazek, AA etc. Our best players are the youngest on the team

except they're not rebuilding, they're signing middling players to long term deals and blocking young players.

[kliq 3,755]

except they're not rebuilding, they're signing middling players to long term deals and blocking young players.

I would disagree with this. If they were not re-building they would be trading guys like AA, Mantha etc. for vets in their prime.

The Wings are re-building while trying not to tank (ie. on the fly), and personally this is something I am a fan of as I dont want to be a Columbus, Winnipeg, Buffalo etc. who are absolutely dreadful for 10+ years and are still not contenders.

I 100% agree with e-prime, do I agree with every decision that Holland makes? No. But, overall I like what they are doing as they have a lot of young prospects that I believe are going to be legit stars in this league. Hopefully we trade for that d-man, or a guy like Sproul, XO, Russo etc. surprise us and break out to be a top pairing D-man.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I still think Sproul is the one that has the ability to surprise in training camp. It's a little worrisome that they have yet to sign him to a new contract. He's the only remaining RFA left to sign...

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

except they're not rebuilding, they're signing middling players to long term deals and blocking young players.

20: Larkin

22: Athanasiou

23: Jurco, Ouellet, Sproul?

24: Mrazek, Sheahan, Pulkinnen, Marchenko

25: Tatar

26: Dekeyser

27: Glendening, Nyquist, Smith

29: Abby, Helm

30: Green

NHL average age is 27.5. Look how many of our key players are on the young side. And 15-16 of the 23 man roster 30 and under. Hasn't been that way in a while. It's a rebuild. I think Mantha will be on the team by the end of the year as well. Not sure who else we'd want on the team from the prospects.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

all the arguing over semantics is useless. Holland stated he isn't interested in a rebuild so it's not a rebuild.

It's trying to fix holes with patchworks and hope that some young players will turn out better than expected...instead of doing what needs to happen.

If people can get excited for this, fine I guess examples like Leafs under Burke, Vancouver aren't enough.

Only thing that's exciting is watching Larkin and Mantha develop some chemistry other than that ...it will be a long, boring and tough season.

Edited September 7, 2016 by frankgrimes

[brett 1,029]

were really going with smith and marchenko full time

[LeftWinger 4,961]

The difference between Holland and other GM's is when a player continually under performs and costs the team games or playoff rounds, they get rid of them. Holland not only keeps them, he awards them with unjustified raises, contract clauses and playing time. For Pete's sake,look how long it took him to dump Kindl and he wasn't even the worst dman we had at the time.

Some Players who should not be on this team, but Holland will never trade:

Howard, Nyquist, Ericsson, Helm, Miller, Ott.

Those 4 forwards not being here opens up spots for AA, Mantha, Pulkkinen and Jurco.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

all the arguing over semantics is useless. Holland stated he isn't interested in a rebuild so it's not a rebuild.

It's trying to fix holes with patchworks and hope that some young players will turn out better than expected...instead of doing what needs to happen.

If people can get excited for this, fine I guess examples like Leafs under Burke, Vancouver aren't enough.

Only thing that's exciting is watching Larkin and Mantha develop some chemistry other than that ...it will be a long, boring and tough season.

Not sure what you mean by this. If anything, Burke's Leafs would be an example that would warn against making trades that get rid of large amount of your future for 1 player (i.e. some of the trade suggestions some have made).

I'm excited about Mrazek as much as Larkin. AA is up there to - I want to see what level he can really play to. Also, the resurgence of Tatar and Nyquist will be something I'm looking forward to watching.

Edited September 8, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[DickieDunn 2,571]

if he was rebuilding he'd be letting guys like Helm and Glendening walk instead of giving them too much money and too long of a deal or signing Vanek as a stop gap in a desperate attempt to squeak into the playoffs.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

if he was rebuilding he'd be letting guys like Helm and Glendening walk instead of giving them too much money and too long of a deal or signing Vanek as a stop gap in a desperate attempt to squeak into the playoffs.

exactly he would use veterans as assets to get more picks, not sign players to 6 year contracts who are used to push contenders over the top.

If Vanek has a good season he should be traded but I'm sure Holland will keep him because of the meaning less streak and then let him walk for nothing or worse extend him.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

I agree with the Vanek part to a certain extent, but we could trade him at the deadline and get something for him and then he would be a good move long term. Anyway, when you add a potential 50 pt. guy for a 1 year deal without giving anything up, I think you have to do it - you either gain a tradeable asset or he doesn't perform and nothing lost. Or you extend him a year or 2 (not long term) so that Larkin or AA have high level linemates to develop with and let Mantha, and other propects work their way up from the 3rd line competition.

The idea that Helm, Glendening are blocking youth is false, though, when you have Miller, Ott taking roster spots and you don't even say which prospects you want on the team.

Frank, I think you hit an important point, when you mentioned semantics. I think you guys are talking about a Tanking rebuild. And, no, we're not doing that. It's the often mentioned rebuild on the fly. For those uninterested when we're just making the playoffs, I doubt you would be more interested in 5 years at the bottom of the league.

Edited September 8, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[kliq 3,755]

Not sure what you mean by this. If anything, Burke's Leafs would be an example that would suggest us against making trades that get rid of large amount of your future for 1 player (i.e. some of the trade suggestions some have made).

I'm excited about Mrazek as much as Larkin. AA is up there to - I want to see what level he can really play to. Also, the resurgence of Tatar and Nyquist will be something I'm looking forward to watching.

Agreed. If anything I would compare what Holland is doing to what a team like SJ did last year, not Toronto.

I agree with the Vanek part to a certain extent, but we could trade him at the deadline and get something for him and then he would be a good move long term. Anyway, when you add a potential 50 pt. guy for a 1 year deal without giving anything up, I think you have to do it - you either gain a tradeable asset or he doesn't perform and nothing lost. Or you extend him a year or 2 (not long term) so that Larkin or AA have high level linemates to develop with and let Mantha, and other propects work their way up from the 3rd line competition.

The idea that Helm, Glendening are blocking youth is false, though, when you have Miller, Ott taking roster spots and you don't even say which prospects you want on the team.

Frank, I think you hit an important point, when you mentioned semantics. I think you guys are talking about a Tanking rebuild. And, no, we're not doing that. It's the often mentioned rebuild on the fly. For those uninterested when we're just making the playoffs, I doubt you would be more interested in 5 years at the bottom of the league.

Very well said. "rebuild" and "tanking" are definitely confused by some on here. What people fail to realize is that for every Chicago and LA that tank and rebuild successfully, there are multiple teams that try the same thing and can't stay out of the bottom of the standings for a decade.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Miller and Ott are on one year deals that don't pay much. Helm, Glendening, and Abdelkader were all gifted deals that pay $500K to $1 mil too much a season on deals that are 2 or 3 year a too long.

AA and Mantha would have to play their way off the roster on a rebuilding team.

[kliq 3,755]

Miller and Ott are on one year deals that don't pay much. Helm, Glendening, and Abdelkader were all gifted deals that pay $500K to $1 mil too much a season on deals that are 2 or 3 year a too long.

AA and Mantha would have to play their way off the roster on a rebuilding team.

A team that was tanking, yes you are right. No one is arguing that the Wings are trying to stay good while re-building.

[joesuffP 1,746]

yeah why should they be gifted roster spots? Imagine Mantha stepping right into the NHL at 20? Look what happened to Jurco... Now look what happened to Tatar and Nyquist who had to fight for their roster spot. Mrazek etc. Having a tough lineup to make is good for development. It's about having a competitive culture

[kliq 3,755]

yeah why should they be gifted roster spots? Imagine Mantha stepping right into the NHL at 20? Look what happened to Jurco... Now look what happened to Tatar and Nyquist who had to fight for their roster spot. Mrazek etc. Having a tough lineup to make is good for development. It's about having a competitive culture

Agreed, I would hope that the Edmonton Oilers would be the poster child for how just throwing every young player on your roster can do a lot of harm and how a mixture of vets and youth is the way to go.

With that being said, I hope AA is a top 9 forward on opening night. I do believe he has earned it.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

A team that was tanking, yes you are right. No one is arguing that the Wings are trying to stay good while re-building.

I don't see a team that has AA and Mantha being significantly worse than their current roster with overpaid Helm and band-aid Vanek, or telling Glendening that he's getting a two year deal that pays $950k a season or he can walk as being a crushing blow if he walks. Instead Helm gets a stupid deal and Glendening gets nearly double what he should.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Frank, I think you hit an important point, when you mentioned semantics. I think you guys are talking about a Tanking rebuild. And, no, we're not doing that. It's the often mentioned rebuild on the fly. For those uninterested when we're just making the playoffs, I doubt you would be more interested in 5 years at the bottom of the league.

I would be because it's the right thing to do instead of hanging on to a meaningless streak. Sharks will need a rebuild soon too but they still have their defense fixed with Burns and Vlasic.

When you have a team that doesn't have a number 1 center, number 1 defenseman and UFAs aren't exactly knocking on the door there are 2 options: trade or draft them. Toronto learned this the hard way...Vancouver is going to learn it the hard way too soon. So I'd rather see young guys, who need 1 or 2 years at the worst in the minors develop, than seeing guys like Mantha sent down so some patchwork players can play...and I'd rather see mistakes from learning by doing instead of veterans who could be used for more draft picks taking spots away.

To me it seems like the Wings want to learn it the hard way and whoever follows Holland will be stuck with a leafs like sitatution before they decided to rebuild. If people believe being a team without a clear vision that drafts around 15 plus and either misses the playoffs or is out in the first round is exciting or something desirable more power to them..to me the red wings way should be building towards cup or bust.

Edited September 8, 2016 by frankgrimes