Official 2016 Detroit Red Wings Offseason Thread

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Larkin is a better version of players we already have fast, smallish, skilled. Mantha has a skillset our is lacking... size and natural scoring ability.

I would trade Larkin for a clear #1 or soon to be #1 D. But I'd want a sweetener thrown in.

I don't hate Americans but if I have two players of more or less equal quality I'll take the Canadian every day of the week.

Strongly disagree with this part. Larkin is a center - what other pontential top line centers do we have in the system? Even potential top 6 centers probably just include him and AA.

Also, Larkin is 6'2" - is that really small? Even if you put ish on the end, I disagree. He was 190 last year, but he was 19 and he'll put more weight on. I'm assuming you're comparing him to Gus and Tats and they are 5'10 and 5'11"

To me, trading Larkin would just create the hole in the 1C position, which is almost as hard to fill as 1D.

[Wings3:16 318]

Agreed, if this team gets an identity it's going to include Larkin, DD, and Mrazek, in my opinion

[DickieDunn 2,571]

I'm not one to get misty eyed over prospects, but moving Larkin fills a hole by creating another. Mantha or AA plus a pick and prospect is better and should be comparable to other offers

[kliq 3,755]

Agreed, if this team gets an identity it's going to include Larkin, DD, and Mrazek, in my opinion

Larkin, Trouba, DD, and Mrazek definitely gives us a very strong core.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

Larkin is a better version of players we already have fast, smallish, skilled. Mantha has a skillset our is lacking... size and natural scoring ability.

I would trade Larkin for a clear #1 or soon to be #1 D. But I'd want a sweetener thrown in.

I don't hate Americans but if I have two players of more or less equal quality I'll take the Canadian every day of the week.

Larkin has proven himself in the NHL. Mantha hasn't proven anything.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

I'm not one to get misty eyed over prospects, but moving Larkin fills a hole by creating another. Mantha or AA plus a pick and prospect is better and should be comparable to other offers

that's the problem trading him means searching for a potential number 1 center. The jets are loaded at the forward position and they have Laine ready to take a spot I guess.

sad part is other than Larkin I don't think the jets are interested in anyone.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Cheveldayoff may want a ton in return for Trouba, but the second the trade request went public, the price tag dropped. The fact that he isn't reporting to training camp and is practicing on his own in Detroit, definitely bodes well for the Wings. My only concern is Holland and his inability to make trades... Everything seems to be aligning perfectly, and should be a slam dunk. Is Holland able / willing to pony up the assets to get it done though? Unfortunately, I have my doubts... As much as I'd love to see a top pairing of DeKeyser - Trouba, I bet he ends up in Boston or something...

[e_prime 1,936]

Git 'er dun, Kenny!

[derblaueClaus 1,668]

It's far from being a slam dunk. As Trouba is an RFA Cheveldayoff is the one in the driving seat and has all the time in world. Trouba training in Detroit doesn't necessarily mean anything. As he was born in Michigan it could also just mean that he is skating in the best facility near to his home. The race is wide open in my opinion and even if Kenny makes a reasonable offer including Nyquist/Tater, Mantha, Smith he might still get the short end of the stick. We all know the crazy prices for elite defenseman and the also crazy GMs willing to pay them.

We also have to keep in mind Troubas cap hit. The 58 mil over 8 years he demands are ridiculous and paying that would be a bad move by Kenny. Trouba is still young and may not pan out the way projected.

One thing is for sure though: This might be the best chance we've ever had to add a (maybe) future No. 1 defenseman to our core. And Kenny should be paying any price necessary to make that trade happen, excluding only Mrazek and Larkin. He just has to make sure beforehand that Trouba signs here for a reasonable salary and term.

[sputman 1,268]

Probably doesn't mean much but Interesting though lol

Ken Wiebe ‏@WiebeSunSports 29m29 minutes ago

#NHLJets RFA D Jacob Trouba told me tonight he plans to train and skate in Detroit until the matter is resolved

I know he is from the area, but can't be bad news ha

I'd say that means at least that we'd have the inside track!

So would this mean that he'd participate in scrimmages and such? Certainly he wouldn't dress for the exhibition games.

[The Datsyukian Deke 127]

No, "in Detroit" would absolutely not mean anywhere close to Wings facilities. He's under contract with the Jets and there's something called "CBA" in place.

[LeftWinger 4,953]

I know just because someone is from Detroit, doesn't always mean they are all gaga over playing here, but not only is he looking for term, he is looking for the responsibility and playing time on the right hand side. If anyone can provide that to him, Detroit can, so if Kenny were able to pull off a deal that sheds enough salary cap, I have no doubt in my mind Trouba would re-sign here in a heartbeat, and most likely play his career out here. Not because he's a local kid, but because Detroit is on of the few teams that can provide him the perfect scenario he is looking for. 8 yrs at about $5M to $5.5M is a great deal. The only thing that would stop him from being our 1st legit #1 guy since Lidstrom, would be an untimely injury, which nobody can predict.

If the talk is true and Winnipeg would be looking for a lefty defenseman along with a top prospect and another roster player in return, I don't see why an offer of Smith, XO, Mantha and Nyquist wouldn't get the trade done. Again, I know Jacob doesn't have control of where he goes, but there aren't many teams out there that can provide him exactly what he is looking for. You would think a team that will pay more than us just because they can, but cannot give him the top pairing minutes, it wouldn't make him too happy and he'd be looking to not sign there either, or re-sign when the time comes. Just because he gets traded somwhere, doesn't mean he'll sign if they cannot give him what he is looking for. They could have a deal in place for Boston, lets say, but if he's not willing to sign because they cannot give him top line minutes, why would Boston overpay for him? I still believe Detroit would be the best scenario for him to attain all he wants. Money, term, playing time, responsibility. Plus, we do have the assets to attain him. It just makes too much sense not to deal with Detroit. The problem is, would Kenny even make an offer? I think if he was willing (a couple of deadlines ago) to trade Smith, Mantha and Weiss to Toronto for Phanuef, he should be more than willing to obtain a 22 year old future #1.

There's no telling what WPG would want, but outside of Larkin, DD, AA, Mrazek, we'd have more than enough to get it done, and have both sides be happy.

Smith, Nyquist, top prospect, young D for Trouba, all day, every day.

Oh, and the fact that he's local? Icing on the cake.

Then just make the minor deal (in comparison) for Fowler, and we'd have a hell of a core D core for YEARS to come!

Edited September 25, 2016 by LeftWinger

[kliq 3,755]

that's the problem trading him means searching for a potential number 1 center. The jets are loaded at the forward position and they have Laine ready to take a spot I guess.

sad part is other than Larkin I don't think the jets are interested in anyone.

I dont know why I take the bait, but you just can't resist taking shots at the Wings huh.

We have plenty of talent on this team. Trouba is not going to come cheap, but we definitely have assets that should intrigue Winnipeg.

If I am Holland, I offer AA, Marchenko, 1st rounder, 3rd rounder, Howard for Trouba and Pavelec.

If Chevy has no interest in the goalies, then I try again.

Edited September 25, 2016 by kliq

[kipwinger 8,522]

Nyquist, Ouellet/Sproul, 1st. That's all I offer. And I don't think the Jets want forwards, so I doubt they do it.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Even just to make the cap situation work out, it almost has to be a base package of Nyquist + Smith/Marchenko going the other way. Trouba says it's about opportunity, not money, but he's probably still looking for something around 6M.

Not sure what I'd add to Nyquist + Smith/Marchenko, but there are limits. Not comfortable with AA, Mantha or Svech, but maybe a "B" prospect and 2nd/3rd/4th rounder. Despite his agent going public with the request, there's going to be no shortage of teams getting into a bidding war for a 22-year-old stud defender. The price is going to be high, regardless.

[kliq 3,755]

Even just to make the cap situation work out, it almost has to be a base package of Nyquist + Smith/Marchenko going the other way. Trouba says it's about opportunity, not money, but he's probably still looking for something around 6M.

Not sure what I'd add to Nyquist + Smith/Marchenko, but there are limits. Not comfortable with AA, Mantha or Svech, but maybe a "B" prospect and 2nd/3rd/4th rounder. Despite his agent going public with the request, there's going to be no shortage of teams getting into a bidding war for a 22-year-old stud defender. The price is going to be high, regardless.

You're right......my trade wouldn't work because of the cap. You have to give up someone with a similar cap hit and guys like Mantha, AA are not even close to what Trouba will end up being.

Maybe you throw a guy like AA in there with a Smith/Tatar and a pick? Though losing AA and Tatar would hurt us offensively. I'm glad I'm not Holland right now.

[e_prime 1,936]

kliq -- i still like your proposal for a goalie swap with Winnipeg as being part of the deal for Trouba. It's the one thing the Jets are truly lacking. Strength in net. Howard can have a shot at being the starter and help them get into and further in the playoffs.

Yes, yes, I know the Jets are high on Hellebuyck but giving them Howard gives them an upgrade over Pavelec and a veteran they can rely on. Howard isn't signed so long that he'll be an issue for when Hellebuyck is really ready to be their number one.

Edited September 25, 2016 by e_prime

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Even just to make the cap situation work out, it almost has to be a base package of Nyquist + Smith/Marchenko going the other way. Trouba says it's about opportunity, not money, but he's probably still looking for something around 6M.

Not sure what I'd add to Nyquist + Smith/Marchenko, but there are limits. Not comfortable with AA, Mantha or Svech, but maybe a "B" prospect and 2nd/3rd/4th rounder. Despite his agent going public with the request, there's going to be no shortage of teams getting into a bidding war for a 22-year-old stud defender. The price is going to be high, regardless.

If you want to make a trade to get a guy lime Trouba, you're probably going to have to include one of those guys. That shouldn't be a deal breaker. Potential second line forward for potential top pair D, or even potential top line winger if you're really hyping one of them, the top pair D is still more valuable, and there are none in Detroit's system. They have plenty of top six forwards though. You trade from an area of abundance to get something you lack.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

If you want to make a trade to get a guy lime Trouba, you're probably going to have to include one of those guys. That shouldn't be a deal breaker. Potential second line forward for potential top pair D, or even potential top line winger if you're really hyping one of them, the top pair D is still more valuable, and there are none in Detroit's system. They have plenty of top six forwards though. You trade from an area of abundance to get something you lack.

There's a difference between saying there are limits to what I'd be comfortable giving up and saying something is a deal breaker. Obviously I'd prefer if Holland didn't have to include one of AA/Mantha/Svech, but I'm not going to condemn that trade if it happens. I understand the need for someone like Trouba. I won't go as far as to say that people are overvaluing him right now, but the lack of defenders with his kind of potential in Detroit's system is definitely boosting his value in this situation, IMO.

Considering what's at stake, they're most likely going to have to "overpay" in this case, either way. I'm not entirely sure what the Jets are looking for in return, but there are a number of other teams in a better position than the Wings to make a solid offer for Trouba. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Holland can land him.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Nyquist, Marchenko and a 1st.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

Didn't see this anywhere, but sorry if I missed someone else posting it. Sproul finally re-signed for 2 years a couple of days ago.

"The first year is two-way, with an NHL salary of $600,000. The second year is one-way at $650,000."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2016/09/red_wings_sign_ryan_sproul_to.html#incart_river_index

I feel like his only path to making the team is to hope for injuries and then really prove himself if he gets a chance then.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

What people don't understand with this quantity for quality proposals is that the Jets don't need any more Wingers, be it veterans or young ones their top 6 is pretty much set, Cheveldayoff will want a center with potential, of course that's Larkin. I have high hopes for Mantha but he doesn't help them at all, they are already big up front and they have Laine coming in. Nyquist, Tatar does nothing to help them out. A goaltender? really they are transistioning to Helleybuck and away from Pavelec and people think they'll take on the contract of another veteran?

When I'm looking at proposals I'm looking at both sides yes it WOULD be very nice to get him for a package of Nyquist/Tatar, Marchenko + first but that's not what the Jets need so why would Cheveldayoff trade him for that package or why do some superfans think others wouldn't top that easily? If Edmonton offers Nurse + RNH how do you top that?! If Tampa offers Kucherov ? wheter people here like it or not but the price is going to be high and the only chance to match that is to offer Larkin I would be thrilled if Mrazek + a 1 st would be enough but that doesn't fix their center or defense problem if they trade him.

Nyquist, Marchenko and a 1st.

Doesn't help the jets at all only the first might be of interest but man I would lottery shield that pick.

Edited September 25, 2016 by frankgrimes

[LeftWinger 4,953]

The Jets are rumored to want a left handed D man. Hence the mention of Smith and XO. If they'd take AA and Tatar, they'd most likely accept Mantha and Nyquist.

If Holland has any balls, he offers

Smith, XO, Mantha, Nyquist. If they say no, then they're crazy. It may take less that that. Since they aren't really in need of too many forwards, you might be able to exchange Mantha with a 1st.

Smith, XO, Nyquist, 1st. I think that still gets the deal done. By no means would i trade AA, but if he does, he does. We'd lose out more of our future dealing away AA rather than Mantha. Once Miller (and more than likely Ott) are gone next season, Helm can slip down to the 4th with Glenny and AA will be full time 3rd center, or Helm can move to the wing with AA centering.

Edited September 25, 2016 by LeftWinger

[mackel 679]

Strongly disagree with this part. Larkin is a center - what other pontential top line centers do we have in the system? Even potential top 6 centers probably just include him and AA.

Also, Larkin is 6'2" - is that really small? Even if you put ish on the end, I disagree. He was 190 last year, but he was 19 and he'll put more weight on. I'm assuming you're comparing him to Gus and Tats and they are 5'10 and 5'11"

To me, trading Larkin would just create the hole in the 1C position, which is almost as hard to fill as 1D.

This is where we disagree, I see Larkin as a very good player... maybe OUR best center. BUT not a top center in the league. Much the way Kronwall is our #1D but isn't a true #1D, and as time passes he may not even be a true #2D at this point.

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

This is where we disagree, I see Larkin as a very good player... maybe OUR best center. BUT not a top center in the league. Much the way Kronwall is our #1D but isn't a true #1D, and as time passes he may not even be a true #2D at this point.

Lids probably helped Kronwell look better than he is.