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Hockeytown0001

Maple Leafs win 2016 draft lottery

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They annually have a 1/30 chance, and just finished in 30th place - not exactly a far fetched bet.

There are also a few differences between Edmonton and Toronto (in terms of recent/current make up): Edmonton has never had a franchise defenceman, Morgan Reilly has that potential. Edmonton has never had a Mike Babcock, Toronto does for the next 7 years. Edmonton is not exactly an ideal destination for free agents, Toronto sits at (or near) the top of that list when the team does well.

While I agree that Reilly could be a number 1 one day I think Edmonton has the complete package in Darnell Nurse. Big mean, skilled beyond believe and stands up for his teammates Reilly is not that type of player far from it.

Toronto has a lot of things going for them right now:

Best coach in all of hockey - check

A GM who has seen and knows it all - check

First overall pick and therefore a lot of options - check

I don't think they'll be a playoff team next year but in 3 years who knows? Babs has proven he can get blood from a stone over and over again, wouldn't surprise me if he could do the same in Toronto. That being said I don't think they'll be as good as Edmonton or Buffalo down the road but a challenger? For sure if the stars align.

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I'm not saying they won't be a playoff team but I certainly don't think they will just go out and win the Stanley cup.

Austin Mathews could be the next Rick Dipeitro for all we know. Yeah I'm overexaggerating but nothing Toronto has done has come into fruition. They haven't even signed Stamkos AND even if they do there is NO guarantee he will be a player he once was. The guy is on blood thinners after a blood clot in his shoulder. That's an injury that might lead to an early retirement for all we know.

As far as Toronto being a "Free agent" destination. Last I checked their best forward left for Penguins. Okay they have Babcock now so maybe free agents might come (lol remeber the theories around here that free agents DON'T come because players don't like Babcock)..? But why would a top free agent risk coming to a team that's known to be a place where players go ruin their careers?

Like Frank said, I think Edmonton and Buffalo are in a better position. But even they are struggling and for Edmonton this has been a long winded process. Toronto will not be an exception to this long process.

Btw Dan Balsyma and Todd McLellan are great coaches.

Edited by kickazz

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I'm actually happy for them. I live in Toronto currently and it would be nice to see this place rejuvenated a bit when it comes to hockey so I don't have to listen to all this talk about the Jays and Raptors.

Leafs have a great group of young forwards: Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Kapanen, Kadri, JVR

But the D needs some work though: Reilly, Gardner, Marincin, Corrado

IF they got Stamkos in addition to this group they should be a perennial playoff team in the next 2-3 years with the addition of some UFA help on D.

And you'll never hear the end of it and instead of upper seating going for $200 a seat it will be $500 a seat.

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I'm not saying they won't be a playoff team but I certainly don't think they will just go out and win the Stanley cup.

Austin Mathews could be the next Rick Dipeitro for all we know. Yeah I'm overexaggerating but nothing Toronto has done has come into fruition. They haven't even signed Stamkos AND even if they do there is NO guarantee he will be a player he once was. The guy is on blood thinners after a blood clot in his shoulder. That's an injury that might lead to an early retirement for all we know.

As far as Toronto being a "Free agent" destination. Last I checked their best forward left for Penguins. Okay they have Babcock now so maybe free agents might come (lol remeber the theories around here that free agents DON'T come because players don't like Babcock)..? But why would a top free agent risk coming to a team that's known to be a place where players go ruin their careers?

Like Frank said, I think Edmonton and Buffalo are in a better position. But even they are struggling and for Edmonton this has been a long winded process. Toronto will not be an exception to this long process.

Well you might want to check again - Phil Kessel was traded to Pittsburgh... Not long after he signed a contract that would have kept him in Toronto through 2021.

In terms of Buffalo and Edmonton, I also believe they are in a great position to contend in the next few years... But that wasn't my point? You actually said "McDavid didn't bring the Oilers out of the crap team they are and neither will Mathews. My points is Toronto won't simply turn it around with Mathews or one or two other players." Now Edmonton is in better shape?

My point was that it's difficult to compare rebuilds... More specifically, just because the Oilers have taken roughly 7 years (and counting) - it doesn't mean that Toronto cant or wont contend in the next 2/3 years. Having Mike Babcock, Brendan Shanahan, and the ability to attract top end free agents (Steven Stamkos...?) represents some of the distinction between the Leafs and the Oilers... It's much more complex than "The Leafs will probably not win because Edmonton has been crap forever".

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Lol you mised the point completely. I'm well aware of Kessel trade. Players wanted out not in. And around here the narrative was that players don't like Babcock and that's why free agents would not come here.

And my other point was McDavid wasn't a god that changed Edmonton's record. Similarly Mathews won't either. On one hand Edmonton has been rebuilding for years and years while Toronto JUST started. So yeah in terms of the long process Edmonton is in a better position. They have key pieces, Toronto still needs more. It's a long re-build for them. Lou, Shanny and Babcock have already mentioned time and again not to expect fast results like ya'll are talking about.

And lets not overrate Shanny and Babs lol. One has been president of the org for one year while the other has one Staneley cup and couldn't get far in the playoffs since 09.

Now I can see if people think Babcock and Shanny's hair are attractive enough to go to them.

Edited by kickazz

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Send Howard to TO

This...and you know what good for the Leafs, it's been a long hard road for them. They have done some great things, adding Shanny & babs, losing kessel and dion the pylon was huge, and now getting the 1st pick. There is still a lot of work to be done but they have put the pieces in the right to start and those gentlemen are making this a club again.

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Hopefully for Matthews' sake Leafs fans are a little understanding and don't turn on him when he goes through struggles playing in the NHL as a teenager. Ahhh who am I kidding?


This...and you know what good for the Leafs, it's been a long hard road for them. They have done some great things, adding Shanny & babs, losing kessel and dion the pylon was huge, and now getting the 1st pick. There is still a lot of work to be done but they have put the pieces in the right to start and those gentlemen are making this a club again.

Howard would be a good fit in Toronto. They'd never win with him, but he'd provide some stability in that position until they do find their future goalie.

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Lol you mised the point completely. I'm well aware of Kessel trade. Players wanted out not in. And around here the narrative was that players don't like Babcock and that's why free agents would not come here.

And my other point was McDavid wasn't a god that changed Edmonton's record. Similarly Mathews won't either. On one hand Edmonton has been rebuilding for years and years while Toronto JUST started. So yeah in terms of the long process Edmonton is in a better position. They have key pieces, Toronto still needs more. It's a long re-build for them. Lou, Shanny and Babcock have already mentioned time and again not to expect fast results like ya'll are talking about.

And lets not overrate Shanny and Babs lol. One has been president of the org for one year while the other has one Staneley cup and couldn't get far in the playoffs since 09.

Now I can see if people think Babcock and Shanny's hair are attractive enough to go to them.

I'm kind of tired of the "Babcock's overrated" conversation. He's a top 3 coach in the NHL... We don't have one, neither does Edmonton.

As for the point you made about Kessel, you obviously weren't all that aware he left on Toronto's terms because he didn't "leave for the Penguins" - He was publicly forced out - and only "wanted" out once that process began... he was lucky he ended up in Pittsburgh. Don't forget, almost all of their core players (Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, JVR, Gardiner) re-signed with the team at some point in the past 3 years - which is inconsistent with all of the "players wanting out".

If Babcock is now the problem, can you explain the 6 year extension's given to Kadri and Reilly? I agree he may not be everyone's favourite coach, but I don't remember the Red Wings losing any key free agents because of the coach? It also hasn't happened in Toronto.

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I'm kind of tired of the "Babcock's overrated" conversation. He's a top 3 coach in the NHL... We don't have one, neither does Edmonton.

As for the point you made about Kessel, you obviously weren't all that aware he left on Toronto's terms because he didn't "leave for the Penguins" - He was publicly forced out - and only "wanted" out once that process began... he was lucky he ended up in Pittsburgh. Don't forget, almost all of their core players (Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul, JVR, Gardiner) re-signed with the team at some point in the past 3 years - which is inconsistent with all of the "players wanting out".

If Babcock is now the problem, can you explain the 6 year extension's given to Kadri and Reilly? I agree he may not be everyone's favourite coach, but I don't remember the Red Wings losing any key free agents because of the coach? It also hasn't happened in Toronto.

Nah I was pretty damn aware of Kessel's situation which began on ice during practice (fight with David Booth) into the press where he called the press out for being pretty s***ty towards Dion Phaneuf. Players treated like crap by press, fans being disrespectful, having insanely high standards for a team that hasn't won in 40 some years. Kessel (like you just said) was forced out, although most of us here will agree that he was happy to leave and likely was all for it. All this and your bolded point is exactly what I'm talking about. Why would players want to go to Toronto when they could end up with a real contender like Chicago, LA and the other 8 team still in the playoff race. Stamkos might have a good reason because from him it's going back home. From what I've seen veteran players have been unloaded by Toronto and are happy in their new environment.

Also when I bring up the fact that Babcock doesn't attract free agents, it's to show that around here for YEARS that's what the narrative was. But all of a sudden, now that Babs is in Toronto, people seem to have switched their minds and are saying "Free agents will flock to Toronto because they have Babcock the best coach and Shanny". See how the LGW narrative has changed? I'm mocking it.

Truth be told, I couldn't tell you what players think about Babcock. I don't have telepathic ability.

And I don't really think one can say Babcock is a top 3 coach. Not yet. If he can win the cup with Toronto. I'll be the first to admit he's the best coach in all of hockey. But winning one cup with a hall of fame team isn't much of an accomplishment (especially since he lost to Dan Balysma in 2009). He couldn't get past round two since 2010 (lost to Todd Mclellan in 2010 who is now coaching Edmonton btw). And from what I can see our rookie coach got to the same position he did last year. Except the rookie had a worse off Zetterberg/Kronwall (new whipping boys of LGW) and a Datsyuk who produced 0 points in 5 games. I once thought Babs was the best coach in the league but after repeated early round exists my opinion has changed. I'm at the point where I think Toronto is his true test. So until then I'll hold off on giving him any titles.

Edited by kickazz

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While I agree that Reilly could be a number 1 one day I think Edmonton has the complete package in Darnell Nurse. Big mean, skilled beyond believe and stands up for his teammates Reilly is not that type of player far from it.

Toronto has a lot of things going for them right now:

Best coach in all of hockey - check

A GM who has seen and knows it all - check

First overall pick and therefore a lot of options - check

I don't think they'll be a playoff team next year but in 3 years who knows? Babs has proven he can get blood from a stone over and over again, wouldn't surprise me if he could do the same in Toronto. That being said I don't think they'll be as good as Edmonton or Buffalo down the road but a challenger? For sure if the stars align.

Babs is a great coach, probably top 3 in the NHL, but lets not kid ourselves the guy has always had pretty good rosters or a super hot goalie (giggy). Even the last few years on Detroit, while obviously they weren't championship contending teams they weren't garbage. Blashill came in and pretty much did the same job Babs minus 7 points and that was with the big 3 going through a giant decline as a collective unit this year (but I guess you could argue that was offset by AA Larkin).

If Babs could blood from a stone, the Leafs would not have been dead last this year.

Please don't mistaken this as an anti Babs post, I am a huge fan of Babs and was super bummed when he left. I would take him back in a heartbeat. But, I don't think he is a god among coaches like some make him out to be.

I agree with your last statement though, if the stars align they could be a very good team. But alot of things need to go right.

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Quenneville, Trotz, Tippet, Sutter. Any of those 4 would be in good competition for Babs as top 3 coach imo.

Can you imagine how Quenneville would be seen if he got to coach team Canada?

Guy already has 3 Stanley cups, add on the gold medals that Babs got for his international coaching position.

Edited by kickazz

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Babs is a great coach, probably top 3 in the NHL, but lets not kid ourselves the guy has always had pretty good rosters or a super hot goalie (giggy). Even the last few years on Detroit, while obviously they weren't championship contending teams they weren't garbage. Blashill came in and pretty much did the same job Babs minus 7 points and that was with the big 3 going through a giant decline as a collective unit this year (but I guess you could argue that was offset by AA Larkin).

If Babs could blood from a stone, the Leafs would not have been dead last this year.

Please don't mistaken this as an anti Babs post, I am a huge fan of Babs and was super bummed when he left. I would take him back in a heartbeat. But, I don't think he is a god among coaches like some make him out to be.

I agree with your last statement though, if the stars align they could be a very good team. But alot of things need to go right.

I know it's a very subjective thing but I think after all the guy has accomplished he is the best but it's also fine if people think some other great coaches deserve some recognition too. Babs also seems to have a huge network of people around the NHL and isn't afraid to try other methods (see olympics ballhockey). The Leafs goal last year was to rebuild and starting from zero and the first thing to do at that stage is to establish a culture which takes time and then go from there. Till they lost JVR Babs had the Leafs playing well over their capabilities just like he did with the Wings in the last few years. But you are right, Q, Trotz, Tippet, Sutter, McLellan all great coaches ...I would love to see what Tippet can do with a blank check, same goes for Maloney.

For sure a lot of things need to fall in place for the Leafs there is no way other teams won't be aware of their young guns starting next seasonand let's see how guys like Nylander are going to handle that. What that first overall pick does for them, is giving the team option they'll either trade him for a ridiculous return or draft a guy with number 1 center potential it'sa win-win. Although - as usual - Leafs fans need to temper their expectations, some already believe Matthews will be better than Eichel which is a joke and he for sure won't be as good as McJesus.

Howard to Toronto does make 0 sense for them, the Leafs won't commit almost 10 mill in salary to Bernier and Howard, not gonna happen under Lou Lamoriello. I also agree with you, Blashill had a solid rookie year as a coach I'm sure he'll learn and adapt some things but overall I'm happy with him. In order for Toronto to become a very good team, they need to nail their draft picks and continue developing them slowly by not giving a crap about the crazy expectations Toronto fans have about their newest toy. None of their kids other than Reilly of course so far has had to deal with the 82 games grind that is the NHL regular season so let's first see how that goes and what they are able to do over the summer but if they get Stamkos and Matthews in the off-season their team will for sure be better, not playoff bound of anything but better. Do I think they will win a Stanley Cup under Babs? Tough to say because so much can in a hurry but I think the potential for a very good leafs team - like you've said - is there.

This is also good for the Wings because there is no way this can be the usual "kicking the tires" summer when it comes to the draft and July 1.

Hopefully for Matthews' sake Leafs fans are a little understanding and don't turn on him when he goes through struggles playing in the NHL as a teenager. Ahhh who am I kidding?

Some are already mentioning they'd only trade him for McJesus...talk about realistic expectations *lol*

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