Hawks trade Teravainen and Bickell to Carolina

[HockeytownRules19 902]

for a 2nd Rd Pick in 2016 and 3rd Round Pick in 2017

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

Wow great deal for the Canes

[Jedi 1,865]

Bickell was either going to be traded, or bought out. Saves the cap penalty for the buyout process.

[amato 3,210]

Teravainen is a great pick up for them. Can the Hawks afford to keep shaw now?

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

Teravainen is a great pick up for them. Can the Hawks afford to keep shaw now?

Been reading and hawks fans don't want Shaw.

[amato 3,210]

Been reading and hawks fans don't want Shaw.

Interesting.. What's their reasoning? To be able to afford to keep Panarin would be my first guess..

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Good move by the canes .... Teravainen will love Quebec

Im really surprised the hawks gave him up .... Would of figured a 2nd or 3rd and bickell to Toronto would of been enough

Kinda making me wish we got him ... 17 goals as a 20-21 yr old , he can possibly get 30 if he keeps developing

[LeftWinger 4,961]

Let get it going Holland! Start cutting cap, today!

Nice to see that The Bowman's are still doing their thing!

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

Could we get Shaw? I don't like the guy but he's exactly the kind of player we need.

[chances14 227]

Let get it going Holland! Start cutting cap, today!

Nice to see that The Bowman's are still doing their thing!

lol.

the only reason why bowman had to make this trade in the first place is because of a loyality contract handed out to an easily replaceable player in bickell. total mismanagement of the cap by stan

Edited June 15, 2016 by chances14

[frankgrimes 1,836]

How quickly people forget, a few years ago a lot of Wingsfans wanted the guy and were prepared to offer him the exact same contract. Bickell is what he is a solid 3rd liner paid too much. But man Teravainen is a steep price to pay although with Panarin emergence he was expendable.

Now the Hawks have the money to extend Shaw.

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

The whole reason they made the trade was to sign Shaw..

[amato 3,210]

wonder if Shaw ends up being the next Bickell type contract

[frankgrimes 1,836]

wonder if Shaw ends up being the next Bickell type contract

Although the thought is funny the truth is, Shaw would instantly be the best player on this team and the Hawks have to pay him like a top 6 forward.

[amato 3,210]

I'm not sure if I agree with him instantly being the best on this team but I was mostly joking. I'm sure his contract will be fine and he'll continue to improve

[kipwinger 8,524]

Shaw is their version of Darren Helm. He will get paid accordingly. I think the reason they were willing too move Teravainen is because Panarin panned out and having both of them, plus Kane in their top six made them too small up front. St. Louis wore them out in the playoffs. A little like us with both Tatar and Nyquist. Maybe we should take a page from their book and move the worse of our two little guys (Nyquist).

[MrazekFanBoy 223]

Nyquist is better than Tatar

Tatar is a better finisher that's it and it's only because he chooses to shoot more rather than passing it off

[krsmith17 7,191]

I'd keep Nyquist over Tatar too but the difference between the two is negligible... Some fans will favor Tatar, others Nyquist, I think the same would go for NHL coaches and general managers... I wouldn't say either are more right or wrong than the other though...

[kipwinger 8,524]

The differences aren't negligible. In the two full seasons they've played, Tatar has more points, and goals, than Nyquist. In fewer minutes, with worse linemates. And Tatar does more damage at even strength. He doesn't need to be on the powerplay to score in the way Nyquist does. Last year Nyquist got 42 more minutes of powerplay time than Tatar and didn't out score him. This year Nyquist had 37 more minutes of powerplay time and didn't outscore him. That's pretty significant.

Tatar's possession numbers are also WAY better. The kind of possession numbers that indicate you're driving offense for your teammates. The very same possession numbers that make people gush over Brendan Smith (but for some reason they conveniently overlook when it comes to Tatar).

Defensively, Tatar has had more takeaways than Nyquist in two of the three years they've played regularly. But admittedly the numbers are close. Otherwise, neither are great defenders.

The only time Nyquist out performed Tatar was in 2013-2014, which was a partial season, and in which Nyquist put up a wildly unsustainable shooting percentage. In every other, quantifiable, way Tatar is a better player. Definitively.

Edited June 17, 2016 by kipwinger

[kickazz 5,459]

I chose Nyquist because he's better looking.

Also I'm not sure if using PP minutes as a supporting argument is convincing for this season. There were times where we looked worse on PP than even strength.

But let's be real, I don't see either of them being moved. But at this point if I had to chose, I would move Nyquist because he's paid almost twice as much as Tatar while they both have "similar" total production. So in terms of practicality I'd chose Tatar over Nyquist.

Edited June 17, 2016 by kickazz

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

The differences aren't negligible. In the two full seasons they've played, Tatar has more points, and goals, than Nyquist. In fewer minutes, with worse linemates. And Tatar does more damage at even strength. He doesn't need to be on the powerplay to score in the way Nyquist does. Last year Nyquist got 42 more minutes of powerplay time than Tatar and didn't out score him. This year Nyquist had 37 more minutes of powerplay time and didn't outscore him. That's pretty significant.

Tatar's possession numbers are also WAY better. The kind of possession numbers that indicate you're driving offense for your teammates. The very same possession numbers that make people gush over Brendan Smith (but for some reason they conveniently overlook when it comes to Tatar).

The only time Nyquist out performed Tatar was in 2013-2014, which was a partial season, and in which Nyquist put up a wildly unsustainable shooting percentage. In every other, quantifiable, way Tatar is a better player. Definitively.

Does he have a Kentucky Derby winner named after him?

I think not.

[kipwinger 8,524]

I chose Nyquist because he's better looking.

But let's be real, I don't see either of them being moved. But at this point if I had to chose, I would move Nyquist because he's paid almost twice as much as Tatar is and they both have "similar" total production.

Also I'm not sure if using PP minutes as a supporting argument is convincing for this season. There were times where we looked worse on PP than even strength.

Similar production belies the fact that Nyquist produces slightly less, with much more opportunity to produce. In that regard it's not similar at all. The totals, as a function of their usage really aren't.

[krsmith17 7,191]

You're arguing an opinion...

I think Nyquist is slightly more of a complete player and when you look at their numbers over their careers - (Nyquist - 261 GP, 76 G, 82 A, 158 PTS / Tatar - 263 GP, 74 G, 74 A, 148 PTS), I would say that's pretty negligible...

I bring up advanced stats and possession numbers when talking about Brendan Smith to prove to people that he does not "suck". Smith has much better advanced stats than DeKeyser, but I'm not going to sit here and try to argue that he is the better player...

I'm not even arguing who is the better player between Nyquist and Tatar because like I said, I don't think it's that much of a difference. I like Nyquist slightly more. You, Tatar? Awesome, you win...

It's a great point that losing Nyquist would make more sense because Tatar costs less. But I would also argue that Nyquist would hold more value in a trade with most teams. I could be wrong there though...

Either way, if we were to trade one or the other in a package for a top pair defenseman, I wouldn't be too upset if it were Nyquist over Tatar or vice versa...

[kipwinger 8,524]

Stats aren't an opinion. Tatar scores slightly more with significantly less opportunity. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. Looking at total numbers when one guy plays WAY MORE than the other guy, especially on the powerplay doesn't tell the story.

That's like saying that Pulkkinen and AA are roughly as good offensively as one another because they both played wing this year, their point totals are close, and they played about the same number of games. You're completely discounting the fact that Pulkkinen gets more minutes, and more powerplay minutes, and still scored slightly less. So he is, in effect, a less potent offensive player.

I don't care who you like better. That's not the subject of debate. I care about representing the facts. And the facts are that both are scorers, and Tomas Tatar scores at a better rate than Nyquist does by a healthy margin when you adjust for usage. If you like Nyquist better anyway, that's up to you.

[krsmith17 7,191]

You don't care who I like better? Haha okay, end of discussion then because like I said, I'm not arguing who is the better player. I would trade Tatar before Nyquist because of my personal preference. If we trade Nyquist and keep Tatar I'd be okay with that decision. My bet is that when Holland talks to other GM's though that Nyquist is brought up before Tatar. Who knows though, maybe Tatar is the hotter commodity, but I could really care less to be honest. Both are good secondary scorers...