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shocky2002

For the Kenny apologists, what Holland move would change your stance o

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Yup exactly, and that one would / should be Ott and / or Miller. Regardless, I still think (hope) there's a trade to happen before any of this takes place. Holland created this mess, now it's on him to clean it up...

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He would only have to waive 2 of the 3 D kids and keep Frk, or waive Frk and can keep 2 of the 3 D kids for 8 D-men to start the season. WIthout a trade, though, when Pulk come back, the extra guy he didn't waive at the start of the season will have to be waived to make room for Pulk.

So in you idea KRS, he wiaves Frk and jensen (hopefully they'd both clear) and keep both Sproul and XO. But then when Pulk returns, one has to go...

One thing you are also forgetting, is you are assuming every single player on the active roster can avoid the IR, which I would say is almost impossible. There will almost always be someone who is injured.

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How many times over the last 2 years has this been discussed and someone always goes down with injury lol?

Holland always gets lucky with injuries and doesn't have much issues with roster space. I'd assume a combination of injuries and waiving players that won't get picked up will bail the Wings out again.

Edited by kickazz

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Been looking at these Expansion Draft mock-ups, and I'm wondering how Holland's moves this year shape that. Currently 'thehockeywriters.com' (not sure how good a site that is) have us losing Sheahan. No chance Howard (someone mentioned earlier about him being the starter in Vegas) gets picked, it just won't happen unless we trade before the draft, but with a lot of other goalies/prospects on the books for the draft, Howard isn't even a factor at the moment; Dallas will have to expose a keeper, Subban at Boston, Bishop most likely at Tampa, etc, etc (of course unless things change throughout the year).

The other thing I noticed from the article (posted below), is that we seem to be in one of the better positions with who we protect - Tampa for one are pretty screwed in that guys like Filppula have a NTC/NMC and have to be protected, same with Pitts and Fluery (who will have to waive it at some point or he'll be crucified - if he doesn't Murray is exposed to the draft). Chicago can only protect one player since they have 8 NTC/NMC on their books. We have one, Nielsen.

Using that, what can Holland do, and if he sat pat with the team we have now until the trade deadline/draft when he knows teams will have to move players to keep others safe, would people still wanting him to do something now?

LINK: http://thehockeywriters.com/mock-expansion-draft-las-vegas-lineup-better-than-expected/

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I have no issue losing Sheahan. We have too many centers of the same skill level. Helm ,Sheahan, AA. Larkin, Glendening.

But why exactly won't Howard get picked?

Obvs no one knows for sure, but I think the rules state only 1 goalie can be protected. Consensus seems to be that with the other goalies on offer, and with the other pieces that we'll have to expose, Howard isn't the option to go for. But we don't know how the Vegas team will value him.

Just read another breakdown which suggests Howard also still has a NMC. Is that right?

EDIT: Modified NMC with a 10-team 'no-trade' list

Edited by Wing Across The Pond

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The only way Helm gets protected over Sheahan is if he has a NMC. if not, and Helm gets protected over Sheahan? Something is more than wrong...but Helm shouldn't have been re-signed anyhow.

Obvs no one knows for sure, but I think the rules state only 1 goalie can be protected. Consensus seems to be that with the other goalies on offer, and with the other pieces that we'll have to expose, Howard isn't the option to go for. But we don't know how the Vegas team will value him.

Just read another breakdown which suggests Howard also still has a NMC. Is that right?

EDIT: Modified NMC with a 10-team 'no-trade' list

Has NTC not a NMC. He doesn't have to be protected.

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I have no issue losing Sheahan. We have too many centers of the same skill level. Helm ,Sheahan, AA, Glendening.

But why exactly won't Howard get picked?

If you had the choice between Howard, Malcolm Subban, Niemi, Riemer, Neuvirth, Fleury, Bishop, Miller, Hammond, Varlymov (as that article guesses) would you chose Howard? I don't see it happening, especially with his caphit - though Vegas probably won't have any really big contracts so they won't really have to worry about that.

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If you had the choice between Howard, Malcolm Subban, Niemi, Riemer, Neuvirth, Fleury, Bishop, Miller, Hammond, Varlymov (as that article guesses) would you chose Howard? I don't see it happening, especially with his caphit - though Vegas probably won't have any really big contracts so they won't really have to worry about that.

To be honest, I'd pick Bishop or Varlamov first and then Howard as top 3 choices. Riemer is not very good, Fleury is good but sort of a choker and Miller is going to be 38 by the team expansion draft hits.

But I get a feeling if Bishop is not going to be a Lightning it will be a trade (a Vezina finalist, I'd assume Stevie is going to want something for this guy). So the next two best goalies on the list to me would be Varlamov and Howard.

Howard has the better playoff experience. It really is a toss up. The other thing is that the Vegas team will likely want to hit the cap floor. No team is going to give away their expensive superstar contracts. Goalies will likely be their best way to reach cap floor.

Also, Howard's contract is only till 2019 so they would get him for about 2 years and the 2nd goalie they pick up could be someone like Subban (basically could be their future goalie).

Edited by kickazz

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Agree mostly. I didn't mean that they were all better - just that there's better options. I think Bishop and Fleury will be trade and anyone that would be willing to trade for them would almost definitely protect them as well.

If I'm the Vegas GM I'd cross Howard off the list though, because he'll be 33. I'd go for the younger goalies (Varly, Neurvith, Subban) It would be kind of funny if Varlamov and Neuvirth end up back together like in Washington.

If that link is realistic, Vegas is going to be set for goaltending.

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Lol at Sheahan being left unprotected over Helm...Holland will be an idiot to do so. Oh wait....

if, as the article says that Marchenko will be left unprotected, you better believe someone will take him. I doubt he is left unprotected. Here's my list from the tool provided barring trade:

Protect :

Z, Abby, Nielsen, AA, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan

DD, Marchenko, XO.

Mrazek

No body is going to take a broke down Kronwall, The E Pilon or a $6M Green. Smith is a UFA so he won't be taken because they wouldn't waste a pick on someone they may not be able to sign come July 1. Vanek the same deal...so any or all pending UFA'S don't need to be protected really. IF Holland acquires Fowler, then he gets protected over XO.

Edited by LeftWinger

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I have no issue losing Sheahan. We have too many centers of the same skill level. Helm ,Sheahan, AA, Glendening.

But why exactly won't Howard get picked?

Because when looking at the 60 or so goalies in the league, he couldn't crack the top 40. Every team will have to expose a goalie. No chance in hell Howard gets picked. We'd have a better chance losing Ericsson in an expansion draft.

The Red Wings list seems pretty realistic.

Agreed. Although I do think it would be a mistake to protect Hank and Kronwall. Building a new franchise, I'd choose Sheahan or Smith over Kronwall or Hank. Why protect guys who will be lucky to have a couple decent years of hockey left in them?

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Smith is a ufa, no need to waste a protect on him. He won't get claimed being that he would possibly leave your team 10 days later. Don't waste it on a pending ufa. That would be stupid. I agree on Sheahan and Kronwall though. Protect Riley instead. And protect marchenko, Nobody is going to pick a broken down Kronwall and if so, then good.

Edited by LeftWinger

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Because when looking at the 60 or so goalies in the league, he couldn't crack the top 40. Every team will have to expose a goalie. No chance in hell Howard gets picked. We'd have a better chance losing Ericsson in an expansion draft.

Agreed. Although I do think it would be a mistake to protect Hank and Kronwall. Building a new franchise, I'd choose Sheahan or Smith over Kronwall or Hank. Why protect guys who will be lucky to have a couple decent years of hockey left in them?

Well for your first point, consider that most teams will expose their backup rather than their starter. We're "lucky" (but also unlucky) to have 2 starters. I know Howard isn't Petr Mrazek but come on lol give the guy some credit, he's a pretty good goalie lol.

The second point. I agree we should leave those guys unprotected because I doubt Vegas team would want older guys. But at the same time, "if" there is a reason the Wings protect Zetterberg it would probably because the organization wouldn't want to risk losing the team captain to an expansion draft (that's a bit embarassing). It could set a bad precedent for the future players. And to be honest it might be pretty disrespectful to Z, who signed his life to this team. It would be that sentimental/ loyalty story we hear about. On the other hand, Kronwall doesn't have the same "prestige" as Z does so I can see them being more open to leaving him exposed. Plus his contract is up in a couple years anyway and with the knee issues I've been reading about - his chance of playing beyond age 38 seems slim.

Back to that loyalty crap (and back to reality) though. Probably will keep both them protected.

Edited by kickazz

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I agree that both Zetterberg and Kronwall will both be protected. I also agree that neither should be protected...

There's also no way we should protect Green with one year left at $6M.

I would leave Smith unprotected, only because he'll be a UFA. Hopefully Holland would be smart enough to work out a deal after the expansion draft...

I don't see Sheahan being one of the players exposed, and if he were I think he would absolutely be picked up.

Best case scenario, we lose Howard or Ericsson. Likely scenario, we lose Pulkkinen or Ouellet...

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Now, see, I would protect Z, just becuase I can protect 7 fwds. Disregarding my dislike of Helm, I would think he may be safe with that long of deal, plus nearly $4M for a bottom 6'er. I absolutely would be livid if we lost Sheahan to expansion.

On, D, with the current D we have, I chose DD, Marchy and XO. I still don't think someone would chose a broken down Kronwall, especially with younger, more prospective D-men available. If I'm looking at Detroit and I see Kronwall, Ericsson, Green, Sproul, Jensen available, I'm taking Sproul. Not unless they would look for more leadership qyualities, but still, I'd much rather take a young player with tons of potential over a half crippled Kronwall.

I chose XO because he has the most NHL experience of the 3 kids in GR.

I really agree that of the players being left exposed, Jurco, Pulkkinen or Sproul may be the ones most apt to be picked.

I think we're stuck with Howard and he will have to be bought out next summer, Vegas will not pick him with the prospective talent that may be available at G.

Of course all this will change if Holland gets D. Lets say he trades Nyquist or Tatar for a D-man, then of course that D man will be protected and XO is not, and then we can put Helm on the protected list as the 7th fwd. I'd love for Jurco to bust out this season and earn a protection, but with the plethora of fwds, he might see 25 games.

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Well for your first point, consider that most teams will expose their backup rather than their starter. We're "lucky" (but also unlucky) to have 2 starters. I know Howard isn't Petr Mrazek but come on lol give the guy some credit, he's a pretty good goalie lol.

The second point. I agree we should leave those guys unprotected because I doubt Vegas team would want older guys. But at the same time, "if" there is a reason the Wings protect Zetterberg it would probably because the organization wouldn't want to risk losing the team captain to an expansion draft (that's a bit embarassing). It could set a bad precedent for the future players. And to be honest it might be pretty disrespectful to Z, who signed his life to this team. It would be that sentimental/ loyalty story we hear about. On the other hand, Kronwall doesn't have the same "prestige" as Z does so I can see them being more open to leaving him exposed. Plus his contract is up in a couple years anyway and with the knee issues I've been reading about - his chance of playing beyond age 38 seems slim.

Back to that loyalty crap (and back to reality) though. Probably will keep both them protected.

The thing is, plenty of teams have two very capable starters. All of which are far superior to Howard.

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Well for your first point, consider that most teams will expose their backup rather than their starter. We're "lucky" (but also unlucky) to have 2 starters. I know Howard isn't Petr Mrazek but come on lol give the guy some credit, he's a pretty good goalie lol.

The second point. I agree we should leave those guys unprotected because I doubt Vegas team would want older guys. But at the same time, "if" there is a reason the Wings protect Zetterberg it would probably because the organization wouldn't want to risk losing the team captain to an expansion draft (that's a bit embarassing). It could set a bad precedent for the future players. And to be honest it might be pretty disrespectful to Z, who signed his life to this team. It would be that sentimental/ loyalty story we hear about. On the other hand, Kronwall doesn't have the same "prestige" as Z does so I can see them being more open to leaving him exposed. Plus his contract is up in a couple years anyway and with the knee issues I've been reading about - his chance of playing beyond age 38 seems slim.

Back to that loyalty crap (and back to reality) though. Probably will keep both them protected.

Is the only reason to shop him purely that contract then? Is there any scenario where it's worth having them both?

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Is the only reason to shop him purely that contract then? Is there any scenario where it's worth having them both?

Yeah for sure. Remember in 97 and 08 we won with a tandem of two starting goaltenders. It helps when one goes down or hits a bad stretch. Ozzy was our starter in the mid 90s but he started sucking so they put Vernon in (who was also a starter) and he ended up dominating in the playoffs. Then the reverse happened in 08 when Hasek was slumping and Ozzy came in and dominated the hell out of the playoffs. This is mostly about money and probably also because Howard and Mrazek would rather play 60 games a season rather than 40 each.

Edited by kickazz

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The thing is, plenty of teams have two very capable starters. All of which are far superior to Howard.

"ALL"?? "far superior"?? Woa....I get your point, but that's a little strong. Jimmy isn't that bad. Reality check. He's not a top 10 goalie in the league...but he's not in the bottom 10 either.

Edited by Learn2LuvIt

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"ALL"?? "far superior"?? Woa....I get your point, but that's a little strong. Jimmy isn't that bad. Reality check. He's not a top 10 goalie in the league...but he's not in the bottom 10 either.

Just wait for 2 years time when his contract is up, and he has to settle for 1 year at a time backup goalie contracts for the rest of his career.

The only chance this team EVER has to get rid of Jimmy is sheer desperation on the part of another GM due to injury at the position. Even then he would have to be given away. Sadly Holland will likely think he has actual value, so we'll be stuck with him. He is right there with guys like Niemi among the worst goal-tending contracts in the league.

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The only chance this team EVER has to get rid of Jimmy is sheer desperation on the part of another GM due to injury at the position. Even then he would have to be given away. Sadly Holland will likely think he has actual value, so we'll be stuck with him. He is right there with guys like Niemi among the worst goal-tending contracts in the league.

Not necessarily just because of injury would we have to chance to move him. That's why God created teams like Calgary, Toronto, Buffalo, NY Islanders, and Edmonton ....to make horrific deals. Didn't you know that??

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