Should any of #91, #13, #40, #30 be retired? Poll/Discussion

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, GMRwings1983 said:

I didn't hear that.  When did he say that?  This organization didn't retire Yzerman or Lidstrom's numbers until they actually retired. However, it was well known that those guys would have their jerseys retired someday. Can Holland state affirmatively that Datsyuk would be retired? 

 

Its in one of these threads. Ken said Zetters will be in the rafters when its all over. Nothing about Datsyuk. 

[kliq 3,755]

2 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

I didn't hear that.  When did he say that?  This organization didn't retire Yzerman or Lidstrom's numbers until they actually retired. However, it was well known that those guys would have their jerseys retired someday. Can Holland state affirmatively that Datsyuk would be retired? 

 

 

On 3/31/2017 at 5:07 PM, kickazz said:

I'm not sure how legit this is but..

Just ask GM Ken Holland. Speaking with THN’s Ken Campbell on Thursday, Holland made it clear he has no desire to move Zetterberg and chances are he remains a Red Wing until he decides he’s done with the game. If that’s not enough, Holland said, “Zetterberg’s jersey is going in the rafters.” Enough said.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/article/active-nhlers-who-are-a-lock-for-jersey-retirement-as-devils-announce-honor-for-elias1

 

[LeftWinger 4,958]

10 hours ago, kickazz said:

Well steering back to the topic though.

Zetterberg's jersey is going to be retired. Called it. And so did Kliq and a few others. Everyone who called it is a good prognosticator. Pat yourselves on the back.  

Of course nothing is certain until it's actually done. For all we know Zetterberg could come out with a Mitch Albom interview tomorrow and say he's going back to Sweden to be with his dad then all of a sudden Christopher Illitch and mom let Holland know to give the media a different story about jersey retirement. 

Wait, what is the title of this Topic? Oh ya, Fedorov is ON topic, so back to topic as well. Without Fedorov this team is not what it was throughout the Dynasty. It'll be a travesty if 91 is not retired. 

He said his time is done in Detroit. He was angry they screwed him, but guess what, each time he was traded he said he'd welcome a trade back to Detroit. He still lived here. You guys who are butt hurt because "no one leaves us!" Need to let it go. Fedorov was just as important to this team as Yzerman and lidstrom. He was just as good as a leader on the ice as those two, he was an A for a bit for Pete's sake...get over it. Guarantee if Yzerman becomes GM he would be on the side of yes. He knows how important Sergei was to the success of the dynasty. Without him, whole different team.

Edited April 2, 2017 by LeftWinger

[kickazz 5,459]

36 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Wait, what is the title of this Topic? Oh ya, Fedorov is ON topic, so back to topic as well. Without Fedorov this team is not what it was throughout the Dynasty. It'll be a travesty if 91 is not retired. 

He said his time is done in Detroit. He was angry they screwed him, but guess what, each time he was traded he said he'd welcome a trade back to Detroit. He still lived here. You guys who are butt hurt because "no one leaves us!" Need to let it go. Fedorov was just as important to this team as Yzerman and lidstrom. He was just as good as a leader on the ice as those two, he was an A for a bit for Pete's sake...get over it. Guarantee if Yzerman becomes GM he would be on the side of yes. He knows how important Sergei was to the success of the dynasty. Without him, whole different team.

Away from Montreal.

Are you having another rant session? Get over it, Fedorov pissed off the organization. You can't change how they feel. Justify it all you want for us but the organization gets to decide if they forgive him. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Wait, what is the title of this Topic? Oh ya, Fedorov is ON topic, so back to topic as well. Without Fedorov this team is not what it was throughout the Dynasty. It'll be a travesty if 91 is not retired. 

He said his time is done in Detroit. He was angry they screwed him, but guess what, each time he was traded he said he'd welcome a trade back to Detroit. He still lived here. You guys who are butt hurt because "no one leaves us!" Need to let it go. Fedorov was just as important to this team as Yzerman and lidstrom. He was just as good as a leader on the ice as those two, he was an A for a bit for Pete's sake...get over it. Guarantee if Yzerman becomes GM he would be on the side of yes. He knows how important Sergei was to the success of the dynasty. Without him, whole different team.

We dont win in 97 or 02 without Shanahan, and we don't win in 98 without Holmstrom.

Should they both be retired? We are a very different team throughout the dynasty without these players.

Heck Holmstrom was even drafted here and stayed for his entire career, as probably the most elite net front presence of all time. Why are you not clamoring to retire 96?

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

Wait, what is the title of this Topic? Oh ya, Fedorov is ON topic, so back to topic as well. Without Fedorov this team is not what it was throughout the Dynasty. It'll be a travesty if 91 is not retired. 

He said his time is done in Detroit. He was angry they screwed him, but guess what, each time he was traded he said he'd welcome a trade back to Detroit. He still lived here. You guys who are butt hurt because "no one leaves us!" Need to let it go. Fedorov was just as important to this team as Yzerman and lidstrom. He was just as good as a leader on the ice as those two, he was an A for a bit for Pete's sake...get over it. Guarantee if Yzerman becomes GM he would be on the side of yes. He knows how important Sergei was to the success of the dynasty. Without him, whole different team.

Like I said before, I do agree that he should have his jersey retired but your argument is so ridiculously over the top. Nobody "screwed" Fedorov, and the way you talk about Feds is like a parent who thinks their child can do no wrong and makes every excuse in the book to justify their child's actions. In literally every scenario brought up here, you manage to flip it to make him sound like the victim. I truly believe that if Fedorov himself read your comments, he would grin.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Wait, what is the title of this Topic? Oh ya, Fedorov is ON topic, so back to topic as well. Without Fedorov this team is not what it was throughout the Dynasty. It'll be a travesty if 91 is not retired. 

He said his time is done in Detroit. He was angry they screwed him, but guess what, each time he was traded he said he'd welcome a trade back to Detroit. He still lived here. You guys who are butt hurt because "no one leaves us!" Need to let it go. Fedorov was just as important to this team as Yzerman and lidstrom. He was just as good as a leader on the ice as those two, he was an A for a bit for Pete's sake...get over it. Guarantee if Yzerman becomes GM he would be on the side of yes. He knows how important Sergei was to the success of the dynasty. Without him, whole different team.

Good leaders don't need their captain to come to them to keep their head up because the team needs them.  Fedorov did.

[kickazz 5,459]

I can't believe there's actually a person out there who victimizes Fedorov as much as this guy is. Even Fedorov and his old agents would be laughing their assess off right now. 

"Omg Fedorov didn't want to leave the first time"

Signs a contract sheet

"Omg Fedorov didn't want to leave the second time"

Fedorov ACTUALLY leaves.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2017 by kickazz

[Jacksoni 418]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

We dont win in 97 or 02 without Shanahan, and we don't win in 98 without Holmstrom.

Should they both be retired? We are a very different team throughout the dynasty without these players.

Heck Holmstrom was even drafted here and stayed for his entire career, as probably the most elite net front presence of all time. Why are you not clamoring to retire 96?

I am. Have and still do. Crucial player for the wins.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

18 hours ago, kickazz said:

Well steering back to the topic though.

I really don't see why you thought my post was off the thread topic. I was directly responding to what Hockeymom and CRL said. I really think the standards for retired jerseys are pretty close to other teams as I've looked more into it and, by giving an example of that, I was arguing the validity of comparing to players and organizations outside.

Without comparing to other teams, there's no real comparables for Fed's situation within Red Wings history and you're left guessing at the hurt feelings from contract negotiations.

Having outside perspective, you can look at instances like Bobby Hull leaving the Blackhawks for the WHA's Winnipeg Jets for more money and still having his number retired by the Hawks. 

Or Pavel Bure declaring he wouldn't play for the Canucks again despite having a year left on his contract (shades of Datsyuk?). He even refused to report to the team next year. Yet, they retired his number.   

Or Ray Bourque demanding a trade from the Bruins, going to the Avs and was still Retired by the Bruins.

Or very recently, St. Louis had the conflict with Yzerman, demanded the trade from TB and put the team in a rough situation, but his number was retired a couple months ago.

So, considering these cases, you can write them off as due to different standards and think this organization holds grudges better than these other teams. Or you can see hope for Fedorov or maybe Datsyuk being retired. I'm on the side of the later. It's just speculation that says that the organization even holds a big grudge against Feds. We know they were close to bringing him back late in his career. That doesn't sound like much of a grudge to me.

I also think it's speculation that says we don't retire players that we had business conflicts with. One imperfect counter to that is that Ted LIndsey's #'s retired, though he butted heads with management constantly over trying to organize the player's union and he was traded due to this. Obviously, that's different than personal negotiations and he was retired by later owners (we do have a new owner, sort of...), but there's no other situation close to Fed's history within the Wings history.

[LeftWinger 4,958]

Lol, butthurt fans...sure the owners decide, but the only reason fans think he doesn't deserve it is because they're made at him...boo hoo. All the same fans that say he won't get retired also said he won't go into the HHOF. How'd that work out? Get over it. 

BTW, I'd love to see 96 go up there...

[puckbags 863]

I say not a single one of them will go up. 

[kliq 3,755]

 

55 minutes ago, puckbags said:

I say not a single one of them will go up. 

Do you mean with the exception of Zetterberg? Because Holland literally said his is going up.

[kickazz 5,459]

Lol are people seriously not reading the reason for the thead bump.

[LeftWinger 4,958]

Seriously bitching about people talking ON TOPIC? Who cares what Holland said about Z, great! His number is going up! We're all happy for it! That leaves 3 more players that are ON TOPIC and you're mad nobody wants to talk about Z. If Holland already said it's going up, then there's nothing left to debate. If you ask me, all 3 remaining deserve to go up as well as 96. Honor your players that created this masterpiece of a run.

If you ask me (again) the wings are too stingy about it. I'm not talking Colorado and Bourque but these 4 players and a couple others were direct reasons this franchise grew and stayed what it was for 25 years.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Lol, butthurt fans...sure the owners decide, but the only reason fans think he doesn't deserve it is because they're made at him...boo hoo. All the same fans that say he won't get retired also said he won't go into the HHOF. How'd that work out? Get over it. 

BTW, I'd love to see 96 go up there...

You can project your "butt hurts" on the rest of us all you want, I'm looking at this pretty emotionlessly. Feds is one of my favorite players of all time. First Jersey I ever bought. He just doesnt hit all the criteria to be retired. Sorry that makes you upset.

96 doesnt hit all the criteria either, in the opposite way of Fedorov. With Holmstrom he was loyal to the brand, but the talent level just isnt high enough. He did not win any personal awards in the NHL and probably wont be in the HOF.

Both are two of my favorite players, but they do not deserve to be regarded in the same light as Yzerman, Lidstrom, and Howe. 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

There is zero chance that Homer gets his number retired. The Grind Line had more of an impact for more Cups, they'd be up there first and that's not happening either.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Feds is one of my favorite players of all time. First Jersey I ever bought. He just doesnt hit all the criteria to be retired. Sorry that makes you upset.

96 doesnt hit all the criteria either, in the opposite way of Fedorov. With Holmstrom he was loyal to the brand, but the talent level just isnt high enough. He did not win any personal awards in the NHL and probably wont be in the HOF.

Both are two of my favorite players, but they do not deserve to be regarded in the same light as Yzerman, Lidstrom, and Howe. 

Agreed with this part, but I think Fedorov is on the same tier as Lindsay and Abel. The issue is obviously loyalty, though. Feds even played for the Wings longer than those 2, but it's only the manner that he left that makes it questionable. I think in the comparisons with these 2, I think it's important to note that Abel's number was retired 40+ years after he retired and Lindsay 30+ years. Only Howe, Yzerman, and Lidstrom are the guys that are without question retired and were put up a year or 2 after they stopped playing. All the rest had to wait for the early 90s, when Illitch wanted to celebrate the past legacy. Maybe Fedorov will have to wait a while as well.

And yes, Kick, I'm happy Holland said that about Z.  He clicks all the boxes in the possible criteria. I really don't know why you decided that this thread is only for talking about that, though.

[LeftWinger 4,958]

5 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Bump.

 

https://www.nhl.com/news/sergei-fedorov-100-greatest-nhl-hockey-players/c-285497404

 

Now you cant talk about Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Osgood.

Forgot about him being in the top 100 OF ALL TIME. Another reason he deserves it.

Retired numbers are ultimately for the fans to enjoy. It's so they can look into the rafters and tell their kids/grandkids that they saw that legend play. It really doesn't upset me that you and others don't think he deserves it, it will upset me if the team never retires him because he was one of the top 5 Red Wings of all time. He deserves it, earned it and for the fans, whom he loved  (met him tons of times at Airport) and if the team doesn't do it, it's just another slap in the face and a big f*** you to the fans. You are jaded by him leaving and are only referencing the Cup teams for the most part. For over a decade, he lead this team and was probably the most unstoppable player on the ice. He was dominating this team and the NHL BEFORE the all-star team of 2002.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

6 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Bump.

https://www.nhl.com/news/sergei-fedorov-100-greatest-nhl-hockey-players/c-285497404

Now you cant talk about Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Osgood.

Datsyuk made that list too.

[kickazz 5,459]

4 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

And yes, Kick, I'm happy Holland said that about Z.  He clicks all the boxes in the possible criteria. I really don't know why you decided that this thread is only for talking about that, though.

Where exactly did I say that we should only be talking about that? PVD don't tell me your sinking to the level of putting words in my mouth. That's pretty disappointing. 

Quote me.

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Forgot about him being in the top 100 OF ALL TIME. Another reason he deserves it.

Retired numbers are ultimately for the fans to enjoy. It's so they can look into the rafters and tell their kids/grandkids that they saw that legend play. It really doesn't upset me that you and others don't think he deserves it, it will upset me if the team never retires him because he was one of the top 5 Red Wings of all time. He deserves it, earned it and for the fans, whom he loved  (met him tons of times at Airport) and if the team doesn't do it, it's just another slap in the face and a big f*** you to the fans. You are jaded by him leaving and are only referencing the Cup teams for the most part. For over a decade, he lead this team and was probably the most unstoppable player on the ice. He was dominating this team and the NHL BEFORE the all-star team of 2002.

That is such a BS statement, if anything the majority of fans do not want his jersey retired. The Wings are damned if they do, damned if they don't, so to say choosing one over the other is a slap in the face is just wrong, and this is coming from someone who wants it retired. A slap in the face would be if a guy like Lidstrom or Yzerman were kept off because Illitch didn't like them personally.

 

[kickazz 5,459]

8 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Seriously bitching about people talking ON TOPIC? Who cares what Holland said about Z, great! His number is going up! We're all happy for it! That leaves 3 more players that are ON TOPIC and you're mad nobody wants to talk about Z. 

Again where did I say we should only be talking about Holland's quote?. All I said was "away from montreal" in reference to the people talking about how Montreal retires random numbers and has low standards; mainly because I didn't want it to get out of hand about us arguing over it. Call it a "damage control" post if you will. The information about WHO Montreal retired is actually helpful and a good point in using as a comparison. The points that were being made about Montreal's crappy standards or how they retire a million jerseys was not.

Nobody said you're not allowed to talk about the other 3 players. I've BEEN discussing Fedorov myself. I made the topic, do you and PVD honestly think I'm that stupid? Surely you know my intelligence level after interacting with me all this time. 

 

[LeftWinger 4,958]

On Saturday, April 01, 2017 at 11:55 PM, kickazz said:

Well steering back to the topic though.

Zetterberg's jersey is going to be retired. Called it. And so did Kliq and a few others. Everyone who called it is a good prognosticator. Pat yourselves on the back.  

Of course nothing is certain until it's actually done. For all we know Zetterberg could come out with a Mitch Albom interview tomorrow and say he's going back to Sweden to be with his dad then all of a sudden Christopher Illitch and mom let Holland know to give the media a different story about jersey retirement. 

Doesn't say anything about Montreal in your post. It just says steering back to topic like you were saying people were getting off topic by not talking about Zetterberg. 

If steering away from Montreal is what you meant, then apologies, but your statement looks like what some folks thought it was referring to.

[kickazz 5,459]

44 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Doesn't say anything about Montreal in your post. It just says steering back to topic like you were saying people were getting off topic by not talking about Zetterberg. 

If steering away from Montreal is what you meant, then apologies, but your statement looks like what some folks thought it was referring to.

I steered us back to one of the main topics being talked about. Away from Montreal's standards and how they retire a million jerseys. Also if you see my posts I was talking about Patrick Roy and his situation and Montreal as a comparison to Fedorov. Additionally I've gone back and forth with you about Fedorov and his "innocence". 

So I'm not sure why you guys are assuming things when my post history is literally right there. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by kickazz