Should any of #91, #13, #40, #30 be retired? Poll/Discussion

[kickazz 5,459]

8 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

I agree with everyone here. 93 not only should be out of circulation,  but it appears it already is. Super classy of the Red Wings to do that.

It would be ironic if Todd Bertuzzi’s nephew ended up taking the number. Steve Moore, Franzen, etc.

[kickazz 5,459]

13 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I hope you're right. I just remember reading articles about what he was experiencing like these:

https://deadspin.com/johan-franzens-brain-is-not-healthy-1698244079

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2015/04/latest_concussion_makes_red_wi.html

I am certainly not a neurologist and i am no expert on CTE or concussions, but the fact that this was over 2 years ago now and he isn't back to playing makes me think he has some degree of permanent brain damage. That's scary. Maybe it never progresses to the level of some others ( I hope not). I haven't read anything more recently about how he is doing tho. Maybe the symptoms have subsided? IDK. I just hope for the best for him.

Ask my friend Miranda.

Since those articles came out:

Pretty big difference between the two. 

I'm no Franzen hater. I just don't think anyone's injury is comparable to Konstantinov and shouldn't be put at that level. 

So let me ask you this, if we do take Franzen's number out of circulation, shouldn't we take out Proberts too? Probert was proven to have CTE. Franzen hasn't been diagnosed with CTE. And if we do, that just opens more doors. For example Salei (I mean the guy died..) and Fischer. 

Edited January 14, 2018 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

I don't think anyone was actually serious about taking #93 out of circulation... Were they?...

[chaps80 1,591]

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think anyone was actually serious about taking #93 out of circulation... Were they?...

I’m neutral. I think players will stay away from it though, regardless. At least until the old guard has retired or moved on.

100% serious about #90 though. It’s cursed.

[chaps80 1,591]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think anyone was actually serious about taking #93 out of circulation... Were they?...

I’m neutral. I think players will stay away from it though, regardless. At least until the old guard has retired or moved on.

100% serious about #90 though. It’s cursed.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

7 hours ago, kickazz said:

Since those articles came out:

Pretty big difference between the two. 

I'm no Franzen hater. I just don't think anyone's injury is comparable to Konstantinov and shouldn't be put at that level. 

So let me ask you this, if we do take Franzen's number out of circulation, shouldn't we take out Proberts too? Probert was proven to have CTE. Franzen hasn't been diagnosed with CTE. And if we do, that just opens more doors. For example Salei (I mean the guy died..) and Fischer. 

No no. I wasn't implying Franzens neurological issues compared to Vladdies. Lemons and oranges. Franzen doesn't appear to have issues with motor skills to the extreme that Vladdie obviously does. Vladdies brain damage was acute and severe. Franzens, chronic and the severity TBD. Their brain traumas are different for sure, but is Vladdie the benchmark for injury related decirculation? IDK.

And we can't know if Franzen has CTE. It's like Rabies, it can't be definitively diagnosed until after death when the skull is opened up and the brain is examined IIRC. But apparently Franzen is already gone according to another thread. But even then, its not checked for unless it's suspected, like Junior Seau. So we may never know.

I actually like the idea of removing 24 from being worn in honor of Probert, Salei, and Chelios.

As for Fischer, that's tricky, as he wore more than one number. But otherwise I would do it.

6 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

 

 

 

I"m not arguing for it, but since Franzen is still on LTIR instead of retiring, it might be good to keep it out of circulation so that its not obvious that the team is cap circumventing. Besides, I can't see anybody wanting it anyway.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie

[kliq 3,755]

5 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

No no. I wasn't implying Franzens neurological issues compared to Vladdies. Lemons and oranges. Franzen doesn't appear to have issues with motor skills to the extreme that Vladdie obviously does. Vladdies brain damage was acute and severe. Franzens, chronic and the severity TBD. Their brain traumas are different for sure, but is Vladdie the benchmark for injury related recirculation? IDK.

And we can't know if Franzen has CTE. It's like Rabies, it can't be definitively diagnosed until after death when the skull is opened up and the brain is examined IIRC. But apparently Franzen is already gone according to another thread. But even then, its not checked for unless it's suspected, like Junior Seau. So we may never know.

I actually like the idea of removing 24 from being worn in honor of Probert, Salei, and Chelios.

As for Fischer, that's tricky, as he wore more than one number. But otherwise I would do it.

I"m not arguing for it, but since Franzen is still on LTIR instead of retiring, it might be good to keep it out of circulation so that its not obvious that the team is cap circumventing. Besides, I can't see anybody wanting it anyway.

This is actually changing, and if all goes well could have a massive impact on contact sports.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/11/16/16665522/cte-research-concussions-diagnosis-living-patients-nfl 

I also just want to add, one could argue that Vladdy likely has CTE as well. Playing his style of play then suffering a massive head injury, I would have to think that he suffers from neurological issues similar to Franzen in addition to all the other issues he has. Such a sad story. 

[kickazz 5,459]

14 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

No no. I wasn't implying Franzens neurological issues compared to Vladdies. Lemons and oranges. Franzen doesn't appear to have issues with motor skills to the extreme that Vladdie obviously does. Vladdies brain damage was acute and severe. Franzens, chronic and the severity TBD. Their brain traumas are different for sure, but is Vladdie the benchmark for injury related recirculation? IDK.

And we can't know if Franzen has CTE. It's like Rabies, it can't be definitively diagnosed until after death when the skull is opened up and the brain is examined IIRC. But apparently Franzen is already gone according to another thread. But even then, its not checked for unless it's suspected, like Junior Seau. So we may never know.

I actually like the idea of removing 24 from being worn in honor of Probert, Salei, and Chelios.

As for Fischer, that's tricky, as he wore more than one number. But otherwise I would do it.

I"m not arguing for it, but since Franzen is still on LTIR instead of retiring, it might be good to keep it out of circulation so that its not obvious that the team is cap circumventing. Besides, I can't see anybody wanting it anyway.

Right from what we know Franzen is fine at the moment. Living a normal life (according to his instagram). No reason to take his number out of circulation. Now if he started going crazy, and died then I can see a stronger argument. But just cause people are getting injured and still living normal lives, I don't see why they should get a high honor like Vladdy did. Far as I know Fischer has a really good job, lives a normal life, plays in the alumni games. 

If we go with this type of bench mark, then you'll start having most numbers out of circulation. McCarty (#25), Probert (#24), Fischer (#2), Franzen (#93), Shaw Burr (#11), Butch Paul (#14), Steve Chiasson (#3) are just to name a few that either suffered from chronic medical issues because of hockey or tragically died during their playing careers. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by kickazz

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

19 minutes ago, kliq said:

This is actually changing, and if all goes well could have a massive impact on contact sports.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/11/16/16665522/cte-research-concussions-diagnosis-living-patients-nfl 

I also just want to add, one could argue that Vladdy likely has CTE as well. Playing his style of play then suffering a massive head injury, I would have to think that he suffers from neurological issues similar to Franzen in addition to all the other issues he has. Such a sad story. 

Good. Hopefully it becomes easier to diagnose and treat much like Alzheimer's or other dementia has.

19 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Right from what we know Franzen is fine at the moment. Living a normal life (according to his instagram). No reason to take his number out of circulation. Now if he started going crazy, and died then I can see a stronger argument. But just cause people are getting injured and still living normal lives, I don't see why they should get a high honor like Vladdy did. Far as I know Fischer has a really good job, lives a normal life, plays in the alumni games. 

If we go with this type of bench mark, then you'll start having most numbers out of circulation. McCarty (#25), Probert (#24), Fischer (#2), Franzen (#93), Shaw Burr (#11), Butch Paul (#14), Steve Chiasson (#3) are just to name a few that either suffered from chronic medical issues because of hockey or tragically died during their playing careers. 

Are we fighting? I feel like we're fighting.

[kickazz 5,459]

36 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

 

Are we fighting? I feel like we're fighting.

Hah no. Fighting is for enforcers. I play a 2 way game as a center.

Now can go look at your private message I sent you. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by kickazz

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I"m not arguing for it, but since Franzen is still on LTIR instead of retiring, it might be good to keep it out of circulation so that its not obvious that the team is cap circumventing. Besides, I can't see anybody wanting it anyway.

No Red Wing should / will wear #93 for the next two and a half seasons. There's no argument there. I just don't think it should be permenantly out of circulation beyond him officially retiring.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

15 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I don't think anyone was actually serious about taking #93 out of circulation... Were they?...

Completely serious. No one has worn 93 since Franzen. Super classy of the team to pull that number out of circulation for him tbh.

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Completely serious. No one has worn 93 since Franzen. Super classy of the team to pull that number out of circulation for him tbh.

... that might have something to do with him still being a part of the team...

Give it 5-10 years and some young punk will come into training camp and steal that number. Let's just hope he can live up to his predecessor...

[chaps80 1,591]

11 hours ago, F.Michael said:

I seem to recall Fedorov wanted some time to deal with his personal life (Bure boning Kournikova), and what not, but Holland removed the offers he had 'on the table' thus giving Feds the idea that he wasn't wanted in Detroit - so he went California Dreaming.

IMHO - #91 belongs in the rafters.

That damn Bure. Fedorov could have signed a deal then worked out his personal stuff though. Holland probably wanted the deal done so they could both relax on it and focus on other things. After all Fedorov did for the team, I don't see Holland not allowing him some personal time after that, whether he was there on opening night or not. As long as he was returning within a reasonable timeline. Leaving Detroit didn't really work out for the rest of his NHL career anyways.

His number could go up someday. But if it ever goes up before #30, that would be an epic kick in the nuts to Osgood.

[kickazz 5,459]

12 hours ago, F.Michael said:

I seem to recall Fedorov wanted some time to deal with his personal life (Bure boning Kournikova), and what not, but Holland removed the offers he had 'on the table' thus giving Feds the idea that he wasn't wanted in Detroit - so he went California Dreaming.

IMHO - #91 belongs in the rafters.

Offer sheet issue too.

It's not like Feds has just one problem. He had a track record that probably left a bad taste in the owners mouth.

Plus we don't know what was going on behind the scenes. Maybe Feds was beating around the bush too much and the owners didn't want to deal with it all over again like they had to in 98 or whatever it was. 

Edited January 15, 2018 by kickazz

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

That damn Bure. Fedorov could have signed a deal then worked out his personal stuff though. Holland probably wanted the deal done so they could both relax on it and focus on other things. After all Fedorov did for the team, I don't see Holland not allowing him some personal time after that, whether he was there on opening night or not. As long as he was returning within a reasonable timeline. Leaving Detroit didn't really work out for the rest of his NHL career anyways.

His number could go up someday. But if it ever goes up before #30, that would be an epic kick in the nuts to Osgood.

Kenny chose Franzen over Fedorov. Friggin Holland.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

That damn Bure. Fedorov could have signed a deal then worked out his personal stuff though. Holland probably wanted the deal done so they could both relax on it and focus on other things. After all Fedorov did for the team, I don't see Holland not allowing him some personal time after that, whether he was there on opening night or not. As long as he was returning within a reasonable timeline. Leaving Detroit didn't really work out for the rest of his NHL career anyways.

His number could go up someday. But if it ever goes up before #30, that would be an epic kick in the nuts to Osgood.

Thats gonna be the name of my next band.

[Barrie 900]

A year and a half after the discussion started, #40 for sure, the rest are probably no.

[chaps80 1,591]

20 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Kenny chose Franzen over Fedorov. Friggin Holland.

I thought he chose Franzen over Hossa? Lol

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

2 hours ago, chaps80 said:

I thought he chose Franzen over Hossa? Lol

Actually, Holland never chose Franzen over anyone. It was sarcasm directed at that argument.

8 hours ago, F.Michael said:

 

I am assuming that Ricky Martin and Lance Bass will be members?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 1/15/2018 at 3:49 AM, krsmith17 said:

... that might have something to do with him still being a part of the team...

Give it 5-10 years and some young punk will come into training camp and steal that number. Let's just hope he can live up to his predecessor...

They should give him one of the A's outta respect 

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

Lindros'  88 being retired in Philly tonight.

[kickazz 5,459]

23 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

They should give him one of the A's outta respect 

He might have it (not really but just pretend). The Wings rolled with three As before. We only have two on the team. 

From 2008 - 2012 it was: 

Captain Lidstrom 

Assistant Zetterberg

Assistant Datsyuk

Assistant Draper (till retirement)

Edited January 18, 2018 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

14 minutes ago, kickazz said:

He might have it. The Wings always rolled with three As. We only have two on the team. 

Unfortunately I think Danny Cleary still has one of the assistant captain roles.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

6 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

We should do a "W" for wimp.  Nyquist and Tatar get the Ws.

Nico should get 2 W's then

Edited January 19, 2018 by ChristopherReevesLegs