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kickazz

Should any of #91, #13, #40, #30 be retired? Poll/Discussion

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Should any of #91, #13, #40, #30 be retired?  

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The report was that Datsyuk had no clue about that "over 35" rule with contracts when he signed the deal. And with his motivation being his family, and him being in his late 30s, I have no ill will towards him whatsoever. IMO Feds situation was much worse. My heart was broke the morning I woke up and read that he left us for one of our biggest rivals at the time. Where we then had to play against him. But to each his own on which scenario was more offensive to the fans. For me it's not even close. And that's coming from me who would love to see #91 up there. I'm just guessing that's why the Wings will never retire his number.

He himself admitted to knowing about the 35+ rule in his exit interview. I think you are like me in that you were more hurt over the Fedorov situation. I was pissed at Fedorov for almost a decade. (I only got over it last year). The Datsyuk situation bothered me too, but not nearly as much as Fedorov. Probably because I loved Fedorov and had a man crush on him. Just my side of it though.

Edited by kickazz

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Just to play Devils advocate here, you all know I think Fedorov deserves his # retired and I do blame Holland for Feds leaving us. BUT, he actually left us once before when he signed the offer sheet from Carolina in 98. So he left us twice, so I totally understand why management may have felt, or maybe still feels about him. I have a feeling though that wounds are healed more than we think because Holland was bringing him back in 08, he wanted him, but someone in the circle of trust nixed it. I believe he asked Babs opinion and he was against it, but not really sure how it went down. I do know Holland had a deal in place to bring him home, but it everyone wasn't on board with it...

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Just to play Devils advocate here, you all know I think Fedorov deserves his # retired and I do blame Holland for Feds leaving us. BUT, he actually left us once before when he signed the offer sheet from Carolina in 98. So he left us twice, so I totally understand why management may have felt, or maybe still feels about him. I have a feeling though that wounds are healed more than we think because Holland was bringing him back in 08, he wanted him, but someone in the circle of trust nixed it. I believe he asked Babs opinion and he was against it, but not really sure how it went down. I do know Holland had a deal in place to bring him home, but it everyone wasn't on board with it...

Agreed. That's why I called Fedorov a bit of a "Drama queen" The 98 story is a good one as well.

And I can see why people in management maybe didn't "trust" Fedorov enough to bring him back in 08. As fans maybe we might have wanted to bring him back but as management and coaches it's those guys who make the financial and on-ice decisions. And at the end of the day it's a business and as businessmen and coaches they make decision that they think are right. And it seemed like it was probably a good decision seeing as how we ended up winning the 2008 cup without him.

Edited by kickazz

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He himself admitted to knowing about the 35+ rule in his exit interview. I think you are like me in that you were more hurt over the Fedorov situation. I was pissed at Fedorov for almost a decade. (I only got over it last year). The Datsyuk situation bothered me too, but not nearly as much as Fedorov. Probably because I loved Fedorov and had a man crush on him. Just my side of it though.

Exactly how I felt/feel. As for the man crush, Stevie Yzerman was my main man crush. Though Feds was def up there too lol

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Of the four, #91 would be the only candidate I would consider retiring AT THIS TIME. Like Kickazz, I was "mad" at Fedorov for about a decade. I really only got over it around the time of the alumni game vs. Toronto. I fully support his number being shadow-retired like Vladdy's. Not for the same reason, of course, but because Fed's wearing 91 was iconic. For me, that number will always belong to him even if the club doesn't hang his jersey from the rafters.

As for Datsyuk, I'm old. I still think of #13 belonging to Kozlov. Yes, Dats was a much better player. IMHO he also hurt the organization by not playing out his contract. So now, like I was at Fedorov before him, I'm mad at Datsyuk. Maybe in a decade I would consider retiring his number.

Z is a fantastic player and consummate leader. Still, with only one Cup and few(er) individual trophies than others, how can his number be retired? Is Zetterberg more important than, say, Shanny (whose number I would not retire)?

Ozzie, no. Even though he left the organization for a time, he's a Wing at heart. He just isn't, to me, on the same level as Yzerman and Lidstrom -- no brainer choices to have their jerseys retired. If the Wings retire Ozzie's jersey, would Draper and Maltby be next? Sure, these are significant players in Red Wings lore but they aren't the historical greats.

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I was no for Ozzie, but if he gets in the HHOF (and if you look at his stats, they hold up IMHO compared to other goalies who have been enshrined) it would open the door. As much as I think he should get in the HHOF, if he doesn't, no way his number goes up. In some ways, you could hold that standard for everyone up for jersey retirement. If they are in the conversation for retirement of the jersey, they should be in HHOF consideration as well.

Draper and Maltby would be candidates for the ring of honor idea I mentioned previously but nowhere near jersey retirement status.

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Isn't that overstating it a little?

#1 - He signed a 3 year contract with this team, tries to leave after the first year - and then puts out an article (right before the start of the playoffs) letting everyone know he's leaving after the second year to "gives back to the Russia people". I guess that wasn't much of an untimely distraction?

#2 - He predictably takes a step back from that stance, and says he didn't make any decision yet (although it was obvious he did) - but if he does leave, it's actually because he wants to see his daughter more... Because who could argue with that?

#3 - He ultimately (to no surprise) leaves, and costs us Jacob Chychrun.

#4 - He then signs with the best team in the KHL, which is a 30 hour drive from his daughter.

If any other long term Red Wing handled their departure worse than he did, please let me know. If not, then no - I don't think I'm overstating a little.

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He didn't put it out there. He addressed the rumors once they were gaining traction to reduce the uncertainty.

And why do you keep citing a 30 hour drive? He's never going to drive to see her. Someone noted it's like a three hour flight. Be reasonable.

This driving business being mentioned is ridiculous. Reminds me of people claiming we can't explore the solar system/nearby stars because we should only use chemical rockets.

On top of that, I am pretty sure his daughter won't mind getting on a first class flight and stay in S:t Petersburg over many weekends, where her ultra rich superstar dad most likely won't mind taking her out on town flashing his Amex gold credit card for his only daughter.

Edited by Jacksoni

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This driving business being mentioned is ridiculous. Reminds me of people claiming we can't explore the solar system/nearby stars because we should only use chemical rockets.

On top of that, I am pretty sure his daughter won't mind getting on a first class flight and stay in S:t Petersburg over many weekends, where her ultra rich superstar dad most likely won't mind taking her out on town flashing his Amex gold credit card for his only daughter.

He has a daughter with his current wife too

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He didn't put it out there. He addressed the rumors once they were gaining traction to reduce the uncertainty.

And why do you keep citing a 30 hour drive? He's never going to drive to see her. Someone noted it's like a three hour flight. Be reasonable.

I don't really understand your first comment? He did an interview with Mitch Albom, he authorized the release of it on April 11th - this is what started the "rumours"? If this isn't seen as a distraction to a professional franchise (that happens to have 19 other players starting a playoff series at different points in their careers) - I don't know what to tell you.

It isn't me who "keeps citing" the 30 hour drive, that was the first time I commented on it (do your homework) - but unfortunately it happens to be a fact that makes his excuse for leaving less legitimate. Yes, we are all aware that planes travel at faster speeds than automobiles, but planes also travel from Russia to Detroit - and if a 3 hour flight (which is really a 6-7 hour travel commitment) is going to change his relationship with his daughter, I don't really believe it.

If our team was competitive, he probably finishes out his contract. Instead he left to play for the best team in the KHL, while he still has a couple years left to chase a championship. The Illitch family threatened him with a lawsuit one year ago (when he initially wanted to leave) and probably cut him a deal. Something tells me that

same family won't be hanging the #13 in their new building.

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I don't really understand your first comment? He did an interview with Mitch Albom, he authorized the release of it on April 11th - this is what started the "rumours"? If this isn't seen as a distraction to a professional franchise (that happens to have 19 other players starting a playoff series at different points in their careers) - I don't know what to tell you.

It isn't me who "keeps citing" the 30 hour drive, that was the first time I commented on it (do your homework) - but unfortunately it happens to be a fact that makes his excuse for leaving less legitimate. Yes, we are all aware that planes travel at faster speeds than automobiles, but planes also travel from Russia to Detroit - and if a 3 hour flight (which is really a 6-7 hour travel commitment) is going to change his relationship with his daughter, I don't really believe it.

If our team was competitive, he probably finishes out his contract. Instead he left to play for the best team in the KHL, while he still has a couple years left to chase a championship. The Illitch family threatened him with a lawsuit one year ago (when he initially wanted to leave) and probably cut him a deal. Something tells me that

same family won't be hanging the #13 in their new building.

They did indeed cut him a deal which was: you can't leave after year 1, we'll sue/harass etc. We will let you go after year 2 if you are doubly sure you want out. Which is what happened of course. And I don't mind, he's not just hurt, he's crippled (ankle) and wouldn't even be close to what he was.

You can find the details about the deal in the latest Ken Holland press conference which he held right after Datsyuk's announcement that he's retiring from the NHL.

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He's not crippled. Wasn't crippled. He played magician like again in the world championship. He was dogging it here. I get it, his heart was not here, he didn't want to play 3 yrs, he signed it though...honor it...and oh, btw, don't say you want to live by your daughter and play 30 hours away...my vote is now NO to #13...especially if we're talking about no to #91.

If it went up, fine, but my vote is no.

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I don't really understand your first comment? He did an interview with Mitch Albom, he authorized the release of it on April 11th - this is what started the "rumours"? If this isn't seen as a distraction to a professional franchise (that happens to have 19 other players starting a playoff series at different points in their careers) - I don't know what to tell you.

It isn't me who "keeps citing" the 30 hour drive, that was the first time I commented on it (do your homework) - but unfortunately it happens to be a fact that makes his excuse for leaving less legitimate. Yes, we are all aware that planes travel at faster speeds than automobiles, but planes also travel from Russia to Detroit - and if a 3 hour flight (which is really a 6-7 hour travel commitment) is going to change his relationship with his daughter, I don't really believe it.

If our team was competitive, he probably finishes out his contract. Instead he left to play for the best team in the KHL, while he still has a couple years left to chase a championship. The Illitch family threatened him with a lawsuit one year ago (when he initially wanted to leave) and probably cut him a deal. Something tells me that

same family won't be hanging the #13 in their new building.

You're right. A three hour flight is totally what it would be to fly internationally from Detroit to his home.

The IQ in this place has dropped considerably the last year or two.

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I don't really understand your first comment? He did an interview with Mitch Albom, he authorized the release of it on April 11th - this is what started the "rumours"? If this isn't seen as a distraction to a professional franchise (that happens to have 19 other players starting a playoff series at different points in their careers) - I don't know what to tell you.

It isn't me who "keeps citing" the 30 hour drive, that was the first time I commented on it (do your homework) - but unfortunately it happens to be a fact that makes his excuse for leaving less legitimate. Yes, we are all aware that planes travel at faster speeds than automobiles, but planes also travel from Russia to Detroit - and if a 3 hour flight (which is really a 6-7 hour travel commitment) is going to change his relationship with his daughter, I don't really believe it.

If our team was competitive, he probably finishes out his contract. Instead he left to play for the best team in the KHL, while he still has a couple years left to chase a championship. The Illitch family threatened him with a lawsuit one year ago (when he initially wanted to leave) and probably cut him a deal. Something tells me that

same family won't be hanging the #13 in their new building.

While I'm not disagreeing that he may have stayed if the team was better, how can you argue against the fact that he's back in his country and closer to his daughter. And as others have pointed out since he won't just be playing in his teams city he will probably be a lot closer to his daughter for half his away games.

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You're right. A three hour flight is totally what it would be to fly internationally from Detroit to his home.

The IQ in this place has dropped considerably the last year or two.

lol if that's the interpretation you developed based on my response, you are unequivocally contributing to the increased stupidity on this site.

Edited by WingedWheel91

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He's not crippled. Wasn't crippled. He played magician like again in the world championship. He was dogging it here. I get it, his heart was not here, he didn't want to play 3 yrs, he signed it though...honor it...and oh, btw, don't say you want to live by your daughter and play 30 hours away...my vote is now NO to #13...especially if we're talking about no to #91.

If it went up, fine, but my vote is no.

I guess it's train or bust...

Edited by NerveDamage

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While I'm not disagreeing that he may have stayed if the team was better, how can you argue against the fact that he's back in his country and closer to his daughter. And as others have pointed out since he won't just be playing in his teams city he will probably be a lot closer to his daughter for half his away games.

Which has never been a point of contention.

Being contractually obligated to fulfill a commitment was the problem. If he was a free agent, or retired without penalizing this team (no matter how good you feel about the trade) we would all be happy for him. Unfortunately, sometimes you can't just do what you want because you feel like doing something else more.

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I don't want anyone up on the rafters yet. If anyone, it's #91 because of his just awesome talent, he is generational despite what some here thinks but ultimately I say no to him as well because of the debacle with leaving. It should be a very exclusive club.

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I don't really understand your first comment? He did an interview with Mitch Albom, he authorized the release of it on April 11th - this is what started the "rumours"? If this isn't seen as a distraction to a professional franchise (that happens to have 19 other players starting a playoff series at different points in their careers) - I don't know what to tell you.

It isn't me who "keeps citing" the 30 hour drive, that was the first time I commented on it (do your homework) - but unfortunately it happens to be a fact that makes his excuse for leaving less legitimate. Yes, we are all aware that planes travel at faster speeds than automobiles, but planes also travel from Russia to Detroit - and if a 3 hour flight (which is really a 6-7 hour travel commitment) is going to change his relationship with his daughter, I don't really believe it.

If our team was competitive, he probably finishes out his contract. Instead he left to play for the best team in the KHL, while he still has a couple years left to chase a championship. The Illitch family threatened him with a lawsuit one year ago (when he initially wanted to leave) and probably cut him a deal. Something tells me that

same family won't be hanging the #13 in their new building.

This is not correct. The rumours started before the Albom article. It was even reported on Hockey Night in Canada about a week or 2 before. Datsyuk was trying to quell the speculation and said he wanted fans to hear it from him. You can call the article a distraction, but the questions were already being asked so it would have been a distracting storyline anyway.

A 3 hour flight is 7 hour commitment? Insanity. Anyway, I checked google when the 30 hour discussion was going onand it's a 2 and half hour flight. Domestic flight - show up an hour before, daughter greets you at airport. It's really crazy that people have had to go to such lengths to convince people that living in Russia is easier to see his daughter than across the world in Detroit. This a daughter from a previous marriage so he's not going home to live with her. Maybe he'll see her every few weeks compared to a few times in the few months of the offseason.

Edited by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Which has never been a point of contention.

Being contractually obligated to fulfill a commitment was the problem. If he was a free agent, or retired without penalizing this team (no matter how good you feel about the trade) we would all be happy for him. Unfortunately, sometimes you can't just do what you want because you feel like doing something else more.

I'm not arguing about him breaking his contract. I'm talking to the people who keep referring to how far away from his daughter he still is.

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This is not correct. The rumours started before the Albom article. It was even reported on Hockey Night in Canada about a week or 2 before. Datsyuk was trying to quell the speculation and said he wanted fans to hear it from him. You can call the article a distraction, but the questions were already being asked so it would have been a distracting storyline anyway.

A 3 hour flight is 7 hour commitment? Insanity. Anyway, I checked google when the 30 hour discussion was going onand it's a 2 and half hour flight. Domestic flight - show up an hour before, daughter greets you at airport. It's really crazy that people have had to go to such lengths to convince people that living in Russia is easier to see his daughter than across the world in Detroit. This a daughter from a previous marriage so he's not going home to live with her. Maybe he'll see her every few weeks compared to a few times in the few months of the offseason.

I think what ww91 means by the 7 hour commitment is due to Airline and Airport procedures. like anywhere else when you've got to show up 1 hour domestic and 2 international prior to your flight.

The 30 hour discussion has to be by train, any other terrestrial method would take more.

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It's probably more of a 7 hour commitment. It's about 2:45 hour flight to the place and then consider his travel back from his daughters home, which is another 2:45 hour flight. Add another 2-3 hours of total customs and sitting around to board.

Comes up to 7-8 hours of travel commitments.

I think realistically the guy will probably go from seeing her maybe 3 times a year to probably 15 or so times a year. No way in hell do I think an athlete has time to travel 7-8 hours every week without his team lol.

It's a win-win situation for Datsyuk. Gets a chance at winning a KHL championship, gets to see his daughter more often.

What I don't understand is why we need to justify his actions. The guy blatantly said his dream is to finish his career in Russia. "I have unfinished business with Russian Olympic team" "It's time for my family to go home". "It's best for my family and I to go home".

Ken Holland "His heart isn't here anymore"

Datsyuk isn't innocent for not honoring the contract but he's not a ****** either for wanting to go home.

Can we steer back to topic at hand though

Edited by kickazz

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This is not correct. The rumours started before the Albom article. It was even reported on Hockey Night in Canada about a week or 2 before. Datsyuk was trying to quell the speculation and said he wanted fans to hear it from him. You can call the article a distraction, but the questions were already being asked so it would have been a distracting storyline anyway.

A 3 hour flight is 7 hour commitment? Insanity. Anyway, I checked google when the 30 hour discussion was going onand it's a 2 and half hour flight. Domestic flight - show up an hour before, daughter greets you at airport. It's really crazy that people have had to go to such lengths to convince people that living in Russia is easier to see his daughter than across the world in Detroit. This a daughter from a previous marriage so he's not going home to live with her. Maybe he'll see her every few weeks compared to a few times in the few months of the offseason.

Although I don't feel I should have to further articulate a very basic comment - have you ever been on a 3 hour flight? What time did you leave your house and what time did you get to your final destination? On average:

Drive to the airport - 30 Mins

Check in/boarding - 2 HRS

Flight - 3 HRS

Luggage retrieval - 30 Mins

Cab from airport - 30 Mins

So if all goes well, on average it may only take you 6.5 hours. Sorry for the insanity - I guess my point was well received.

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