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HockeytownRules19

Glendening signs 4-year, $1.8m AAV extension

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Then what's your point? You don't seem to have one. I never said anything about analytics. You mentioned how bad we were offensively was because of Glendening's ice time and I said you should probably start blaming our scorers for not scoring before our 4th line centre. Glendening didn't lead the team in ice time. Z and Larkin got pretty average ice time for first line players. I take into account how awful the other lines were for why Glendening's ice time went up. Remember how awful the Tatar-Sheahan-Tatar line was? There's a reason their ice time went down. Look at the power play. Everything suggests our offensive guys had a down year but defensively were pretty average. Logically we should blame our offensive players

So you're telling me. That you don't think there is any correlation to coaching change and the fact that scoring went down? Lol okay lets blame the offensive players. Literally almost everyone underproduced this season. You want to hold all 10 players accountable? Or perhaps it's the new PP coach and Blashill the rookie?

Then what's your point? You don't seem to have one. I never said anything about analytics. You mentioned how bad we were offensively was because of Glendening's ice time and I said you should probably start blaming our scorers for not scoring before our 4th line centre. Glendening didn't lead the team in ice time. Z and Larkin got pretty average ice time for first line players. I take into account how awful the other lines were for why Glendening's ice time went up. Remember how awful the Tatar-Sheahan-Tatar line was? There's a reason their ice time went down. Look at the power play. Everything suggests our offensive guys had a down year but defensively were pretty average. Logically we should blame our offensive players

Glendening gets about 2nd line ice time. He's a 4th line player on paper but his icetime has been consistent with league 2nd line players. Tatar's ice time has been equivalent to 3rd line players in the league.

His 5 on 5 ice time averaged 11:21 while Tatar's was 11:59. So enough with the "PK time" excuses. They play the same amount 5 on 5.

Edited by kickazz

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So you're telling me. That you don't think there is any correlation to coaching change and the fact that scoring went down? Lol okay lets blame the offensive players. Literally almost everyone underproduced this season. You want to hold all 10 players accountable? Or perhaps it's the new PP coach and Blashill the rookie?

Yeah. My whole point is that the offense didn't work last year. That's coaching and players. The defense was good... Because our defensive players were good

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Yeah. My whole point is that the offense didn't work last year. That's coaching and players. The defense was good... Because our defensive players were good

If you think being ranked #17 in the league and towards bottom in conference for goals against is good defense then I have no idea what to tell you.

If you think our primary penalty killing player being ranked towards bottom of the league for goals against is a part of good defense then I have no idea what to tell you.

And most of all if you think our defense is good without a top D-man (who by the way the Wings are looking for as they feel it's their biggest hole), then I don't know what to tell you.

I don't know where you've been since 2012, but defense has been the biggest issue on the team. Scoring only recently became an issue when Datsyuk and Zetterberg decline this past year. We've been defensively challenged all across the board since Lidstrom retired.

This is a pointless discussion and almost everything you've said lacks facts. And no you don't need corsi to show simple facts to support an argument.

Edited by kickazz

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Our team would be able to score more if our team wasn't being consistently outshot.

And more shooting starts from giving Tatar, Nyquist and other scorers getting more ice time. Guess who has more ice time between Glendening and Tatar.

Guessssss

Luke Glendog

TA DA!

The team would score more if they had a legit top line and top D pairing. They don't, they have a bunch of second line quality forwards and second pair quality defensemen and a coach who overuses some of them in the wrong situations. Add a GM who won't part with any of that second tier talent and you get the current Red Wings .

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Didn't want to take the Helm thread too far off subject so I thought I'd put this here for perspective:

Tale of 2 4th line centers.

Glendening: 81gp 8g 13a 21pts. +4 Deal: 4 years 1.8 million per

Cizikas: 80gp 8g 21a 29pts. +4 Deal: 5 years 3.350 million per

Cizikas has been called the best 4th liner in the league (Don Cherry). And others have said his line in the best 4th line in the league. 2 years ago, they both had 18 pts (Glen 12g vs. Ciz 9g) Cizikas played 12 less games.

Also, found this article from 2013 that says the average 4th line center made 1.455 million. That has surely gone up a bit since then.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/news/4494817-nhl-salary-cap-2013-john-tavares-hart-pk-subban-norris-mvp-candidates

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I have no problem with Glendening's contract. It's high for a 4th liner, but I think he's an above average 4th liner, so it's not bad. Citzikas, while better than Glendening in my opinion, is overpaid for sure. There was a lot of rumblings earlier this year when he signed. Fans love him in NY, but they didn't love the cap hit.

FYI, based on my looking into salaries, the $1.455M for 4th liner centre probably hasn't moved much at all....average for 4th line is still below that, but I didn't look based on LW, C or RW.

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I have no problem with Glendening's contract. It's high for a 4th liner, but I think he's an above average 4th liner, so it's not bad. Citzikas, while better than Glendening in my opinion, is overpaid for sure. There was a lot of rumblings earlier this year when he signed. Fans love him in NY, but they didn't love the cap hit.

FYI, based on my looking into salaries, the $1.455M for 4th liner centre probably hasn't moved much at all....average for 4th line is still below that, but I didn't look based on LW, C or RW.

To be fair, Citzikas probably single-handedly raised the average salary for a 4th line center, haha.

Glendening will be slightly overpayed when the extension kicks in, but I also think he's an above average 4th line center and that's just about where he caphit lies.

I mostly thought the average was useful for those that seem to act like 4th line centers don't make more than peanuts.

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This deal is going to be a steal when in year 2 of it he becomes an elite 50 pt shutdown guy.

But seriously, he's an awesome checking line center, if we wouldn't have signed him to this, someone else would have for more.

Does that make it worth it?

Probably not, but he's a true homegrown guy, we all know he wasn't going to be leaving.

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So you're telling me. That you don't think there is any correlation to coaching change and the fact that scoring went down? Lol okay lets blame the offensive players. Literally almost everyone underproduced this season. You want to hold all 10 players accountable? Or perhaps it's the new PP coach and Blashill the rookie?

Glendening gets about 2nd line ice time. He's a 4th line player on paper but his icetime has been consistent with league 2nd line players. Tatar's ice time has been equivalent to 3rd line players in the league.

His 5 on 5 ice time averaged 11:21 while Tatar's was 11:59. So enough with the "PK time" excuses. They play the same amount 5 on 5.

I kind of want to reserve judgement until the new pp/forward coach shows his mettle, bc last season was an abomination, and I don't want to just blame blash bc I honestly think he delegates power to try to make things right. But if special teams don't improve by the end of the year, I'll blame it all on blashill, toi/usage of players not withstanding, that is.

So I agree with you, but a leash only gets so long.

It's gotta be hard coming into an organization that hasn't missed the playoffs for 25 years. And on topic, I agree this contract is probably on the higher side for a fourth liner, but honestly man, it could be worse.

If we didn't have e and howie signed to the deals eyes are (and I really don't think howies deal is THAT bad in context) along with the Weiss deal/buyout, I don't think this contract would be too much of a problem. Ya know?

So let them dominate Z and Larkin? Those guys are counted on to score. Glendening matches up against those guys so our other lines can do the scoring. If we had prime Z and Dats I guarantee Blashill would roll them out against the best in the league

If we had prime z and d, we wouldnt have to worry about that though.

They could go out against anyone and score 90pts/yr, everyone knows were in transition, so taking pressure off our most skilled players (at this point still our older guys for the most part) with guys who can handle the harder minutes isn't as big of a deal as it seems.

Once we get the talent on the big club to take over, it won't matter, but then we'll still have a few years of them being cost controlled snyway. So it's almost inconsequential either way.

Edited by jimmyemeryhunter

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