Brad Richards Retires

[kipwinger 8,524]

I'd say Pav is much more likely and that Richards is more of a question mark. Their production is roughly the same, but Pav did it in 173 less games. I think it's Datsyuk's elite defensive game (and 3 selkes) that give him a big edge. Other 3 time Selke winners have not been inducted (Carbonnneau, Lehtinen) but they didn't put up the same numbers Datsyuk did.

Brad Pav

GP: 1126 953

Gs: 293 314

As: 634 604

Pts: 932 918

+/-: -67 +249

2 Cups 2 Cups

1 Byng 4 Byngs

1 Selke 3 Selkes

1 Smyth

You're splitting hairs. 1 Selke vs. 3. They were both great defenders during their hey day. You don't win even one Selke if you're not an elite defender.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

The difference is Datsyuk was one of the best centers in the league for many years. Can't say the same for Richards. He was never a superstar player.

[kliq 3,755]

The difference is Datsyuk was one of the best centers in the league for many years. Can't say the same for Richards. He was never a superstar player.

No he was a superstar player, but it was for a very very short period of time. That IMO is the biggest argument against him. He was a superstar for a few years, but for the most part he was just a good player.

[kipwinger 8,524]

The difference is Datsyuk was one of the best centers in the league for many years. Can't say the same for Richards. He was never a superstar player.

I don't know about that. He scored 90+ points twice. Exactly what Datsyuk did. Neither ever topped 100 pts. in a season. He won a Conn Smythe AND a Selke, so it's not like he was a non playoff performer or a one dimensional scorer. Datyuk was definitely flashier, but in terms of his on ice contributions I'm not sure he ever did anything substantially greater than Richards did.

[kickazz 5,459]

No he didnt win selke he won a Lady Byng

Edited July 24, 2016 by kickazz

[kipwinger 8,524]

No he didnt win selke he won a Lady Byng

Yep, you're right. I read that wrong. I got that wrong in another thread as well. Well I stand corrected.

[chaps80 1,591]

LOL love how the Wings always end up with former superstar players the year or two before they retire. It's a right of passage. Got one more year in ya and can't find a team? Call Ken Holland. He'll make room for ya.

[kickazz 5,459]

He came in 4th for Selke once. He's probably more comparable to Zetterberg although Z was a better goal scorer than both Richards and Dats were.

[chaps80 1,591]

And as for Richards in the HOF, i'd say maybe. Two cups, Conn Smythe, Selke, some great seasons in Tampa and Dallas. There are others more deserving at the moment though.

[GMRwings1983 8,794]

I don't know about that. He scored 90+ points twice. Exactly what Datsyuk did. Neither ever topped 100 pts. in a season. He won a Conn Smythe AND a Selke, so it's not like he was a non playoff performer or a one dimensional scorer. Datyuk was definitely flashier, but in terms of his on ice contributions I'm not sure he ever did anything substantially greater than Richards did.

Datsyuk was regarded as the best two-way center in the game for several seasons. I don't remember Richards ever being looked at similarly. I think you could build a team around a prime Datsyuk as your number one center. I wouldn't build a team around a prime Richards.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

You're splitting hairs. 1 Selke vs. 3. They were both great defenders during their hey day. You don't win even one Selke if you're not an elite defender.

Apologies for listing the Selke. Not sure where I got that from.

They have similar production. Pav played 173 less games. think that's a pretty significant difference and that's not even taking into account the defensive side of things. You say they both had 2 90+ seasons, but Pav also had 2 80+ seasons as well while Richard does not.

And, yes, Richard had a decent defensive game, but not on the level of Datsyuk. Richard's highest +/- was +13 (with a cup winning team). Richards was only a plus player 6 of his 17 years. He played on some bad teams, but not that much. Datsyuk's highest +/- was +41 and was only not a plus player 1 year (2nd year). And I know that +/- is partially a team stat, but surely +249 vs -67 for their respective careers at least says something their difference.

You can look at many more reliable stats to show Pav's superior 2 way game, though:

Brad Pav

Takeaways: 345 754

Giveaways: 424 380

Face-Off%: 50.3 54.8

Hits: 207 512

Corsi%: 51.7% 59% (since 07 when they started recording these)

Fenwick%: 48% 58.2%

http://www.hockey-reference.com/

For a while Datsyuk was considered the best all-around player. That was kind of the common line amongst commentators that I remember for a while.

Edited July 24, 2016 by PavelValerievichDatsyuk

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

Apologies for listing the Selke. Not sure where I got that from.

They have similar production. Pav played 173 less games. think that's a pretty significant difference and that's not even taking into account the defensive side of things. You say they both had 2 90+ seasons, but Pav also had 2 80+ seasons as well while Richard does not.

And, yes, Richard had a decent defensive game, but not on the level of Datsyuk. Richard's highest +/- was +13 (with a cup winning team). Richards was only a plus player 6 of his 17 years. He played on some bad teams, but not that much. Datsyuk's highest +/- was +41 and was only not a plus player 1 year (2nd year). And I know that +/- is partially a team stat, but surely +249 vs -67 for their respective careers at least says something their difference.

You can look at many more reliable stats to show Pav's superior 2 way game, though:

Brad Pav

Takeaways: 345 754

Giveaways: 424 380

Face-Off%: 50.3 54.8

Hits: 207 512

Corsi%: 51.7% 59% (since 07 when they started recording these)

Fenwick%: 48% 58.2%

http://www.hockey-reference.com/

For a while Datsyuk was considered the best all-around player. That was kind of the common line amongst commentators that I remember for a while.

That last line is the separating factor for me between Datsyuk and Richards. It seemed like a pretty common thought thay Datsyuk was the best all around player for a few seasons there.

[kickazz 5,459]

We should move Richards v Datsyuk convo for HOF in the other thread.

[toby91_ca 620]

My opinion, as already stated is that Richards doesn't belong in the HOF....Datsyuk has a better chance, but I'm not totally sold on that either, the heart says yes, but if it was someone else, I'd probably argue why not. I'll be honest, when it comes to forwards, my minimum requirement is usually at least 1pt per game. I know there are several in below that threshold though. I think being close to that threshold + the 3 selkes and cups will give him a good chance. I don't like the cups argument at all (team sport more than most other professional sporting leagues), but it does factor into the thinking.